1 1 HUDSON COUNTY OPEN SPACE TRUST ADVISORY BOARD 2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X TRANSCRIPT OF PUBLIC HEARING PROCEEDINGS 3 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X Lincoln Park Administration Building 4 Jersey City, New Jersey Tuesday, September 13, 2005 5 7:00 p.m. 6 7 B E F O R E: 8 SARAH CREW, CHAIR 9 STEPHEN D. MARKS 10 JOSEPH LICCARDO 11 HENRY SANCHEZ 12 THOMAS McCANN 13 WILLIAM LaROSA 14 JACOB A. DeLEMOS, III 15 16 A L S O P R E S E N T: 17 MASSIEL FERRARER 18 19 Reported By: 20 Trina B. Otha, C.S.R. 21 22 REPORTING SERVICES ARRANGED THROUGH VERITEXT/NEW JERSEY REPORTING COMPANY, L.L.C. 23 Kabot Battaglia & Hammer Suburban Shorthand Waga and Spinelli Arthur J. Frannicola CSR 24 25B Vreeland Road Florham Park, New Jersey 07932 25 Tel: 973-410-4040 Fax: 973-410-1313 2 1 (Whereupon, the meeting was called 2 to order.) 3 MR. MARKS: Roll call... Sarah 4 Crew? 5 MS. CREW: Present. 6 MR. MARKS: Jacob DeLemos? 7 MR. DeLEMOS: Present. 8 MR. MARKS: Bill LaRosa? 9 MR. LaROSA: Here. 10 MR. MARKS: Joe Liccardo? 11 MR. LICCARDO: Here. 12 MR. MARKS: Steve Marks is 13 present. 14 Tom McCann? 15 MR. McCANN: Here. 16 MR. MARKS: Bobbie Morgan? Bobbie 17 Morgan is not present. 18 Henry Sanchez? 19 MR. SANCHEZ: Here. 20 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, you have 21 the floor. 22 MS. CREW: Thank you. 23 If everyone will stand for the 24 solute to the flag... 25 (Pledge of Allegiance recited.) 3 1 MS. CREW: For those of you who are 2 standing, there are some chairs up front. You 3 might want to get comfortable. 4 I want to thank all of you for 5 coming out. You've all received the letters from 6 the Board. I just want to make a couple of 7 statements before we begin. 8 The letters, I think, were self 9 explanatory. We went to and visited all of the 10 sites. We -- as the letter said, there was a 11 certain formula that we had to go by. The one 12 thing that I do want to say is that this is an 13 ongoing process. Every year there will be 14 funding; every year you can apply. Our main 15 concern this year was that we had $25 million 16 worth of requests, we had $10 million -- I'm 17 rounding off the figures -- to dispense, and the 18 main thing that we wanted to do, one of the things 19 in addition to the formula that we had to go by, 20 we wanted to make sure that the monies would be 21 used and everything that we awarded monies to was 22 project ready. If it's not project ready, we 23 encourage you, because we liked all of the 24 projects and we thought they were all worthy, 25 reapply. 4 1 And without further adieu, unless, 2 Steve, you have something you want to say, you 3 signed in, and I don't know if everyone who signed 4 in wants to speak or not, but what I'm going to do 5 is, I'm going to take the sign-in sheet, and I 6 know the Secaucus contingent over here has 7 something they need to do, so they will be going 8 first. After that, there are two other people 9 that have prior commitments, and then I will go 10 strictly down the roll. So if you want to speak, 11 please do; if you don't, just pass. You will be 12 limited to five minutes because the crowd is so 13 large. So there will be five minutes, so if you 14 can be concise... 15 MS. CREW: Steve, do you have 16 anything to add? 17 MR. MARKS: No. 18 MS. CREW: Mayor? 19 MAYOR ELWELL: Mayor Dennis Elwell 20 from the Town of Secaucus. 21 The first thing I would like to do 22 is commend all of you on the job you have done, 23 and particularly with the speed and resolve that 24 you've gone through to assure that this money is 25 distributed and used. The worst thing I think you 5 1 could do with a fund such as this, and we see this 2 in other cases, where money is set aside and it's 3 not used. 4 On behalf of the Town of Secaucus, 5 let me say this. We have identified many, many 6 new projects, and the one thing we have learned 7 out in Secaucus is that without partnering and 8 without help, we get very little. If you look at 9 our share of aid, be it from the state, the 10 federal government, or even from the county, 11 because of our demographics and other things, we 12 are generally left out there to ourselves. So 13 we've learned to partner. 14 I think in this project the 15 uniqueness about the project is the opportunity to 16 continue a walkway, an opportunity to provide open 17 space for our children, an opportunity to continue 18 projects that we were working on for many, many 19 years. And, of course, the other portion of it is 20 the opportunity to tap into state money to the 21 tune of almost $4 million. 22 So we are very excited about this. 23 We think it's a very, very important part of our 24 community and what needs to be done in our 25 community, and we certainly would hope that you 6 1 would consider us and consider us favorably in 2 this. 3 I think we have met -- to all of 4 your criteria, I believe we have met every single 5 one of the criteria that was set forward in this, 6 and I think that's very important. And, Sarah 7 Crew, I think you're absolutely correct in your 8 statement earlier that this is an ongoing process 9 and it's something that people are going to have 10 to learn to deal with and to work toward. It 11 doesn't just happen overnight. We've learned that 12 in Secaucus over the years, and I think that may 13 be one of the reasons why when our application 14 came in we were so concise with everything we did. 15 And I want to thank you again for 16 your time, coming out to look at our project, and, 17 again, thank you in advance for consideration. 18 Thank you. 19 MS. CREW: Councilman Constantino? 20 MR. CONSTANTINO: The Mayor spoke 21 on my behalf. Thank you. 22 MS. CREW: Mr. Lou Manzo? 23 MR. MANZO: Louis Manzo, 24 Assemblyman, 31st District. 25 Actually, I'm speaking on, I guess, 7 1 an appeal for the Embankment Coalition, which, I 2 guess, it made the first cut. And what I wanted 3 to apprise you of is that at the time of their -- 4 or at the time that the embankment was being put 5 up, a lot of information, a lot of material and 6 background data that's been developed today, 7 including a very important victory tonight with 8 the Planning Board voting down the developer's 9 right to subdivide the property, has taken place 10 in moving this embankment to what can be an a 11 great open space conduit for a park in Jersey 12 City, a fresh air park, to one of its most densely 13 populated neighborhoods, and the neighborhood that 14 is in most needed of open space. 15 The significance of your actions is 16 more -- not as much as the amount you would give 17 this project, but the statement you can make by 18 giving this -- this group, its appeal heard, and 19 something towards the embankment. What it will 20 do, it will solidify other agencies -- the state 21 has already committed nearly some 3 million 22 combined with federal aid towards this project. 23 But more importantly, we're going for -- the 24 Coalition is going before the Surface 25 Transportation Board on abandonment procedures 8 1 that Conrail, the apparent owner, has failed to 2 follow. And one of the most important factors in 3 that appeal process is going to be -- it's going 4 to weigh in as a side issue is what public support 5 is there, what governmental support is there for 6 such a worthy project. And we have, as I said, 7 the State on board, we have the City on board, 8 they have the -- the Council has voted to make 9 this a historic designation, there's a process of 10 eminent domain ready to take place. If we can 11 bring, somehow, a statement from the great County 12 of Hudson where this sits, with whatever, you 13 know, whether it's resources or just a statement 14 from this Board, that's an important step that can 15 be made and would really significantly boost the 16 argument for this project. 17 So my appeal to you tonight is, 18 basically, for reconsideration and for support. 19 I'm not asking for a big monetary figure tonight 20 because I know, you know, that a lot of the 21 information that you had previously wasn't there, 22 but something, more to make a statement, more 23 to -- which will overwhelm -- whatever dollar 24 amount you give to this project it will be 25 overwhelmed by other funding sources, but that 9 1 will carry a great deal of weight whatever you do 2 for this future argument for our plans to make a 3 great open space park that all of our residents in 4 this county can participate in. And that's what I 5 ask you to consider. 6 Thank you very much, and I want to 7 applaud you on your inception and your first steps 8 in what's going to be a gem of a board and agency 9 for our county. Thank you very much. 10 (Applause.) 11 MS. CREW: And Councilman Steve 12 Fulop? And I hope I pronounce all your names 13 correctly. 14 MR. FULOP: I'll be more brief than 15 Mr. Manzo. I just want to echo the same 16 sentiments and just highlight the fact that the 17 opportunity downtown where I do represent as far 18 as the linear park goes and the open green space 19 opportunity there is really something world class 20 from a branding standpoint to really differentiate 21 not only Jersey City, but the entire Hudson 22 County. And I think the people here, it's an 23 overwhelming turnout, it kind of highlights the 24 fact that, you know, we are faced with certainly 25 an opportunity here to do something very, very 10 1 special. And everybody here just shares the same 2 belief that I do, that, you know, taking the right 3 step forward and adjusting and putting some money 4 towards it would be a tremendous step in the right 5 direction towards moving the entire Green Space 6 Project for the whole County in the right 7 direction. That's all. Thank you. 8 (Applause.) 9 MS. CREW: And Mr. Vega? 10 MR. VEGA: I'm here today as a 11 Jersey City councilman, and wearing that hat only. 12 My daughter gave me this to wear, and I said, 13 Honey, it doesn't fit. The only thing that fits 14 is the cause. The cause fits because we believe 15 that the Sixth Street Embankment is a wonderful 16 idea ready to happen. And I understand how the 17 process that you go through, and I admire it very 18 much, because I had something to do with the 19 process. So I think the process is working. But 20 when you look at the Sixth Street Embankment you 21 look at the time in which we evaluated it and the 22 time where we are now, and let me fill that gap 23 for you just a little bit. 24 Tomorrow night the City Council 25 will be voting on -- a high-power attorney, more 11 1 than what we usually pay, that specializes in 2 going after the railroads, they do abandoned 3 property, to follow up everything we have to do so 4 that we can find a way so that the City of Jersey 5 City might have the first right to purchase the 6 property. We've gone through process of hiring a 7 condemnation attorney to either purchase right out 8 or go through the condemnation process. So we're 9 appealing to you for extra money because that 10 might make the difference so that we can deposit 11 the money and buy the property directly. 12 Tonight I think the Planning Board 13 made the historic decision not to subdivide and 14 make it more valuable for housing rather than 15 being a linear park. I spent, I believe, the last 16 four years of my life working on a larger issue 17 than the Sixth Street Embankment, what I call the 18 East Coast Greenway. The East Coast Greenway is a 19 trail from Maine down to Key West, Florida. And 20 the Sixth Street Embankment is a critical section 21 of that. Now, how do you get through Jersey City 22 and have 80 percent of it be off road? Well, you 23 know, clever people in Jersey City and clever 24 people at the state level and the Department of 25 Transportation figured out a way. They asked, how 12 1 do you think we can do this? And walk with me 2 just a little bit. I get off the ferry at 3 Exchange Place and I walk all along the Hudson 4 River Walkway until I get to Sixth Street. Sixth 5 Street I go through Wachovia Bank and then I climb 6 up to the Sixth Street Embankment, and I'm already 7 off road heading through one of the most densely 8 populated cities in this country. I meander my 9 way down to Sixth and Brunswick underneath the 10 Dickinson High School, and I get on the -- let's 11 call it the Bergen Arches. What a wonderful cut 12 that is by itself, and that may be another day for 13 another fund. I'm already halfway through the 14 Meadowlands on my way to Dennis Elwell's wonderful 15 trails so that I can work my way to Harrison to 16 get to the Metro Star Soccer Stadium into Newark, 17 on our way through many famous parks that were 18 built by the fellow that built Central Park in New 19 York City, on my way down to Florida. 20 This is what it means to us, an 21 elevated park where you can get above the hustle 22 and bustle, a way of uniting the people, the haves 23 and have-nots, and people from the Heights are 24 coming down and enjoying what we have. So I 25 wanted to ask for reconsideration, if there's some 13 1 way to find any unused money or money that can be 2 used for this purpose. The Mayor is going to have 3 a representative who's coming here tonight. He 4 indicated that he could not make it himself, but 5 he wanted to, but he had a community block 6 association meeting. And he said if he could find 7 a way to get out early enough, he might come by 8 himself. But he's sending an official 9 representative. And I want to tell you that when 10 we vote on these issues, to spend money on this 11 project, these are the things that -- and tomorrow 12 we have a significant vote. 13 I also want to applaud the review 14 that the Apple Tree House and the Loew's Theater 15 have gotten for preservation. They're wonderful 16 icons when Jersey City is a destination. But do 17 you know that Jersey City was voted as one of the 18 most walkable cities in the country? And the 19 Sixth Street Embankment is going to add to that. 20 Thank you so much. 21 (Applause.) 22 MS. CREW: In order for us to -- we 23 are meeting again after this, to give us a little 24 more information, do you have a time line 25 projected as to when all of this -- when you would 14 1 be ready to purchase? Do you have, Mr. Vega, an 2 estimate? 3 MR. VEGA: Sure. It's a very good 4 estimate, and we have people that are just focused 5 on that. Mayor Healy has asked the Sixth Street 6 Embankment Coalition to help drive the City and 7 keep us on target on those issues. So maybe other 8 people can. But I believe that today we had the 9 two folks that were doing the appraisals for Green 10 Acres, they were on site today. So I think that 11 you have to think of this as a phase one as if 12 it's an acquisition issue and that magic number of 13 cost. We know that the person that bought it 14 bought it for under $3 million. And probably if 15 the City bought it, there might be some 16 subtractions for that, for cleaning it up and. We 17 know that it has to be developed, and the 18 development may be a little bit more than this 19 other piece. But we believe that Congressman 20 Menendez earmarked some money out of the federal 21 government for this project. So by brook or by 22 crook, we're going to find out a way to get this 23 project done. There's a tremendous amount of 24 support in the City. I don't speak alone when I 25 speak on this issue. And I think that the 15 1 purchase of this property could be as early as six 2 months to a year away. 3 Now, in order to purchase the 4 property we need to have the money in the bank so 5 that we say that's our property, we want it for a 6 public purpose, and we take it to eminent domain 7 if necessary. Of course, it's always easier and 8 faster to do a negotiated deal and not drag that 9 out. But that's my sentiment. If anyone has 10 better information, I would yield to Maureen 11 Crowley who has been a voice for -- or Jenny 12 Meyer, I yield my time to Jenny Meyer. 13 MS. MEYER: Well, it's hard to give 14 you at this time a date. But as Mariano said, the 15 appraisers are going to be on the site actually 16 tomorrow morning. And there's already a draft of 17 the appraisal done; it needs to be completed. 18 MS. CREW: Would you identify 19 yourself for the court reporter? 20 MS. CROWLEY: I'm Maurine Crowley. 21 I'm from the Embankment Coalition. The Green 22 Acres appraisers are going to be on the site 23 tomorrow morning. And I don't know how long their 24 appraisal will take, but I know that substantial 25 work -- draft appraisals have already been in the 16 1 works, so it shouldn't take too long. There are 2 two tracks that the City is following, the eminent 3 domain track and the abandonment track. The 4 abandonment track, if they hire a lawyer tomorrow, 5 that lawyer will file a proceeding with the 6 Surface Transportation Board. And after it's 7 filed, it should take four to six months for that 8 to be completed. But the lawyers have to figure 9 out how to coordinate those two tracks. And as 10 Councilman Vega said, it's so important to have 11 the money and use the Board for eminent domain and 12 have it right there in the bank. 13 MR. LaROSA: : Councilman Vega, you 14 represent the Mayor's group. Do you have more 15 specific information as to when an appraisal can 16 be given to us? 17 MR. VEGA: Well, I misspoke. I 18 thought it was going to be done today. But if 19 it's done tomorrow, two of them are required to be 20 there on the same day for Green Acres' purposes. 21 We've gotten Green Acres money already; we're 22 starting on the second phase. So that issue 23 happens much faster now than what we thought 24 before. The question for us was getting them both 25 there at the same time. And I think the Mayor's 17 1 representative is here right now. So I think it 2 gives us like a six-month window in order to move 3 the agenda forward much faster. And certainly 4 when the administration feels that the money is in 5 the bank, so to speak, they can speak with a 6 little more authority about our ability to buy 7 this, because through condemnation you've got to 8 have it in the bank to do it. 9 MR. LaROSA: The only question I 10 have for Councilman is that -- and it's not a 11 question, but if we were to consider this it would 12 hold up all the other projects which are time 13 sensitive, very much so, and it's not fair to 14 them. So that we would have to weigh very heavily 15 as well. 16 MR. DeLEMOS: How much money do you 17 have right now in the bank? 18 MS. CROWLEY: We have $1.6 million 19 available from Green Acres. 20 (Inaudible). 21 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Louder, 22 please. 23 MS. CROWLEY: -- so we're trying to 24 find that out. We have a meeting with NJPTA 25 tomorrow. There's a $900,000 donation from a 18 1 developer for open space in the city that we hope 2 will be given, and we have some other funders for 3 development, but that's what we have available. 4 MR. MANZO: I want to clarify 5 Maureen's point. There's 3.2 million. 1.6 from 6 federal, and there's a state match of 1.6, so it's 7 3.2 million plus the 900,000. So there's 8 approximately about 4 million available. 9 And as I said before, if, and we 10 feel very -- in all likelihood that we'll prevail 11 with Surface Transportation because of the 12 evidence that's being made available. They're 13 required -- Surface Transportation requires of the 14 railroads that when giving it back for public use 15 that the monetary amount is not going to be what 16 the property is assessed at, it's going to be for 17 a significantly lower amount because it's going to 18 be turned back for a public use. 19 So again, someone mentioned about 20 hurting other projects, and we understand that. 21 But again, it's not necessarily as much money 22 tonight as we could get in the future years, but a 23 statement, something that puts it in the bank for 24 the argument, that would help us later on. 25 MS. CREW: I just need to, if you 19 1 don't mind waiting, David Donnelly did make a 2 special trip to come, and I would like to give him 3 the floor right now, then we'll continue. 4 MR. DONNELLY: Thank you. The 5 mayor asked me to come tonight. I appreciate you 6 allocating me some time. 7 MR. SANCHEZ: Louder, please. 8 MR. DONNELLY: I appreciate you 9 changing your schedule as well. I promise you 10 I'll be brief. I know there's a lot of people who 11 wish to speak tonight, and I don't mean to step in 12 front of everybody, so I apologize. 13 Quoting from Shakespeare, "If you 14 could look into the seeds of time and say which 15 grains will grow and which will not, speak then to 16 me." I know you guys have a tough job trying to 17 figure out which seeds will grow, and I know you 18 have a lot to look at. But I was looking at all 19 the different projects, and every one is 20 commendable. But I think a special exception 21 needs to be made for the Sixth Street Embankment, 22 and the Mayor asked me to come here to say a 23 special exception needs to be made for the 24 embankment. 25 There are a few things unique to 20 1 the Sixth Street Embankment. One, the Sixth 2 Street Embankment would actually meet all the 3 essential elements for open space acquisition. 4 The first would be open space acquisition, park 5 improvement, and historic preservation. It is 6 both municipal and state landmarking. Let's be 7 clear that municipal and state landmark does not 8 protect the Sixth Street Embankment from being 9 torn down. The person who may or may not own it, 10 as we've been educated, will apply for an economic 11 hardship to tear it down. And there's all 12 possibility that he can get that, because it's 13 not -- an economic hardship is not granted on the 14 basis of emotion; it's granted on the basis of 15 dollars and its ability to develop that. You 16 cannot take away someone's economic right to 17 develop a piece of property they own no matter 18 what it is. He needs to figure out how to do it 19 around this historical landmark. If he can't, the 20 Sixth Street Embankment could be in danger. We 21 could be in danger of losing that Sixth Street 22 Embankment. So whereas the East Coast Greenway is 23 very keen on making the embankment part of its 24 coastal pathway, it would be -- I believe one day 25 the East Coast Greenway will be akin to the 21 1 Appalachian Trail. So you're talking about a real 2 gift to the citizens of Jersey City to have this 3 part of the Greenway, the Sixth Street Embankment, 4 come through Jersey City. 5 And the other thing that I wanted 6 to note, in the packet you had sent, this 7 application actually scores higher than other 8 projects that were given funding, according to 9 Advisory scoring system. I believe in the package 10 that you sent out, the Secaucus acquisition, the 11 Petrillo site, scored 95 points, Guttenberg, the 12 Guttenberg Waterfront Park scored 77 points, and 13 in Jersey City the Pennsylvania Railroad Harismus 14 Stem Embankment scored 73 points, which was higher 15 than the 1600 Park Avenue, the Maple Street 16 Garden, and the North Street Youth Soccer Field, 17 all of which, I believe, will be receiving 18 funding. 19 The project readiness, that I 20 understand is probably why you did not give the 21 grant. We really need to make an exception. The 22 city needs to amass funds. The procedure and the 23 strategy for acquisition, the City of Jersey City 24 will hire an attorney to make an appeal to the 25 Federal Surface Transportation Board because we do 22 1 not believe that Conrail properly abandoned the 2 rail line. That being said, they've already sold, 3 according to them, this Harismus Stem Embankment 4 to a developer. Okay? We're going to try to make 5 that sale null and void. When that happens we 6 have to have that money then and there and right 7 then. I can't give you a date when that will be, 8 but we have to have it then. We can't declare it 9 null and void then say, oh, I've got to find 10 another 1.2 million in my back pocket. Because if 11 we can't find it then, we will not be able to 12 acquire that property even if the rail line wasn't 13 properly abandoned, even if that sale to that 14 developer were declared null and void. Once it's 15 declared null and void, we have to have that 16 money. If we don't, it can still be sold 17 eventually to somebody else. 18 So if we get to the point where the 19 Surface Transportation Board says to us, listen, 20 you're right, Conrail never abandoned that line, 21 okay, now we need to go through the abandonment 22 procedure. Part of the abandonment procedure is 23 they have to offer it to the municipality. When 24 they offer it to the municipality, we have to have 25 that money right then and there. We have no 23 1 choice. We have to come up with whatever fair 2 market value is, and we are fast approaching that. 3 We've hit a few speed bumps this summer as far 4 as getting -- what's the word I'm looking for -- 5 getting an appraisal done. The appraisal will be 6 done by October. It will be done well before the 7 Surface Transportation Board makes a decision. 8 Okay? So we will have an idea then of what we 9 need to come up with. In the meantime, we need to 10 amass funds to make sure that we don't lose this 11 piece of Americana. And I don't want to preach 12 history or anything like that, but Jersey City has 13 a very unique place in the Industrial Age in the 14 United States. From Jersey City, from this rail 15 line we fed a nation. There's very little left of 16 it. There are a few warehouses in the Art 17 District. There's a few lines over out in the 18 Greenville Yards. The Sixth Street Embankment is 19 connected to the rest of the United States. And 20 from here the American Pacific Tea Company fed a 21 nation and Black's Beer distributed its beer out 22 on those rail lines. It is very historically 23 significant. Also, not only being historically 24 significant, in a fast developing city this allows 25 us to keep some space for open space which we are 24 1 losing quickly. I'm very lucky. I just bought a 2 house at 65 Gautier Avenue and I live right in the 3 back of Lincoln Park. I live in probably one of 4 the best parts of Jersey City because I live right 5 in the back of Lincoln Park. I just want to let 6 you know that not everybody has that gift of 7 having a park right behind them. So whereever we 8 can, whereever the city wants to develop to 9 increase the open space in this city, I ask you to 10 help us. I beg you to help us. So that when we 11 are asked to acquire this when I believe the 12 Surface Transportation Board -- I don't see how 13 they have any other case than to say that Conrail 14 did not properly abandon, that we have the money 15 to buy it. Thank you. 16 (Applause.) 17 MS. CREW: One thing that will help 18 us, do you have anything officially in writing 19 that you can give us with commitments, et cetera? 20 MR. DONNELLY: Commitments as far 21 as -- 22 MS. CREW: As to what you've said, 23 what is going on. 24 MR. DONNELLY: Tomorrow City 25 Council will hire a specialized attorney to 25 1 proceed with the appeal to the Surface 2 Transportation Board. I can get you the past 3 resolution on Thursday. I'll get it to Steve's 4 office. I will have appraisals, hopefully, in the 5 first week of October. I can get you the request 6 for the appraisals being done, I can get you the 7 correspondence between us and the surveyors saying 8 that we need to have it done by a certain date. I 9 can go through my notes and figure out -- is there 10 anything else specific that you would like? 11 MS. CREW: Yes, anything hard 12 copy. Anything that you can give us hard copy 13 like that, if you can get it, would be good. 14 MR. DONNELLY: And I can also -- I 15 just need to ask the Embankment Coalition -- for 16 instance, a former city employee who is now a 17 member of the Embankment Coalition, he wrote, 18 basically, a history of the embankment that I 19 think everybody should read. 20 MS. CROWLEY: It's in the grant 21 application. 22 MS. CREW: That we have. It's just 23 things that help us make our decision, you know, 24 to help us decide. 25 MR. DONNELLY: Once we retain a 26 1 lawyer there should be some other documents that I 2 can get -- 3 MS. CREW: Any documents like that 4 would be helpful. Thank you. 5 MR. DONNELLY: Thank you. 6 MR. VEGA: Ms. Crew, I think that 7 the only piece I would add to that is a list of 8 all the money that's been accrued for this project 9 so far. That would be the most significant -- 10 MR. DONNELLY: I can do that. 11 MS. CREW: Thank you. 12 MR. LaROSA: Dave, one thing, and 13 you quoted Shakespeare, great procrastinator, to 14 be or not to be. Time is -- we need to have more 15 than just thought. You have to move with this. 16 That's what the chairperson is trying to impress 17 upon you. It's not fair to the other applicants 18 who had everything on time. They come in, they're 19 project ready, and it took a lot of time to go 20 through all the sites, and we did. And we very 21 much believe what you're doing, but now it has to 22 be done. 23 MR. DONNELLY: Mr. LaRosa, I 24 couldn't agree with you more. It's just that 25 project readiness in this project, I really 27 1 believe there is a real need for an exception, 2 because we're more in a battle to save it than 3 it's not actually ours and we're making every move 4 now to make it ours. But because of the vagaries 5 of federal railroad law, which I do not claim to 6 be an expert on, we've had to hire an expert, and 7 that's what makes it difficult and that's why I 8 really -- and I know in some respects it is unfair 9 to the other applicants, but I am really begging 10 for this exception here as far as project 11 readiness goes. Because when and if the STB, the 12 Federal Surface Transportation Board, says that it 13 wasn't abandoned properly, we need to have the 14 money right then and there. There will be no 15 waiting. And, for instance, if they came back in 16 November and said, okay, it wasn't abandoned, we 17 have to have the money right then and there, and 18 if we don't, we'll still lose it. 19 I hope I'm making myself clear on 20 that, that the project readiness -- it's tough to 21 make this project ready because we're dealing with 22 somebody who's not -- who's trying to keep us from 23 getting the property. It's just not quite that 24 easy in this case. 25 MR. McCANN: Another thing that you 28 1 guys need to also do is, considering that you've 2 got a $1,000,000 Green Acres grant, Green Acres 3 gets grants out every year. Okay? So you guys -- 4 I mean, we get grants, we get multi-park grants 5 where I ask for $5 million and they give me 6 500,000. By the time two years, three years go 7 around, I get the $5 million. So even though 8 you've only got a million from Green Acres, the 9 scope of project has certainly changed, so now you 10 guys have got a better idea of cost. So go back 11 to Green Acres also and request additional money. 12 MR. DONNELLY: We have done that. 13 In fact, Green Acres came again to look at the 14 site and we continue to -- and I believe that 1.6 15 wasn't gotten all at one time. That's two years 16 of Green Acres. So we continue to pursue that. 17 MR. McCANN: Right. And now that 18 you have a higher number, they can go 50/50. And 19 that doesn't mean that this Board isn't looking at 20 this property, but the idea is that you guys have 21 to keep going after the other money. I mean, we 22 have a multi-park grant right now that we got 23 funded in four years. And at one point in time 24 Green Acres used to fund twice a year; now they're 25 back to only doing it once. But at that time we 29 1 had eight rounds that we were funded in four 2 years. So you guys can certainly get another 3 million or something like that, which down the 4 line the money could eventually be used. Because 5 it looks like -- well, hopefully you guys are 6 successful. 7 MR. DONNELLY: Please understand 8 that the reason why we're here tonight is we're 9 sort of at a tipping point, and we're -- and if we 10 miss this tipping point, we don't get to go back 11 and try again. 12 MR. REMAU: I'm sorry. This is 13 very relevant to what we're talking about. I'm 14 not sure -- I'm hoping this helps rather than 15 hurts, because -- 16 MR. MARKS: Identify yourself for 17 the record. 18 MR. REMAU: I'm sorry. Greg Remau, 19 New York/New Jersey Baykeeper. What I hope helps, 20 because I think the Board is in some ways being 21 put on the spot, but for very good reason. 22 Baykeeper has money in addition to that Green 23 Acres money. So if there's a way, if there's a 24 small amount and we match it which doubles that 25 money, that helps you -- if that helps the Board 30 1 in any way, we'd be glad to do that. We can 2 contribute additional money up to somewhere 3 between 300 and 500,000. I'm not sure how much is 4 being asked for, but maybe if you can give half of 5 what you would have given -- I'm not sure this is 6 a solution because I understand exactly the 7 dilemma the Board is going through. And 8 originally I thought more of this money was 9 probably going to go for development of the 10 embankment rather than the acquisition, but 11 circumstances are as they are. So if that in any 12 way helps... Sorry this is coming out now, so -- 13 MR. McCANN: Your money is always 14 good with us. 15 MS. CREW: We're going to just kind 16 of continue down the way people have signed in. 17 Robert Drasheff? 18 MR. DRASHEFF: Thank you. My name 19 is Robert Drasheff. I serve as a planning and 20 development consultant for the Township of 21 Weehawken, and I'm just here to actually thank 22 this Board for consideration and recommendation of 23 our Maple Street Garden project. And to reiterate 24 on behalf of the mayor that if the Board of 25 Freeholders approves this project at its meeting 31 1 that's scheduled for this business, we would be 2 prepared to commence construction within a matter 3 of months. 4 MS. CREW: Then we have Mr. -- Oh, 5 Steve, you've already spoken. Melissa Donath? 6 Jim Legge? If I pronounce your 7 names wrong, just yell out. I'm sorry. 8 Gina Tosatto? 9 We didn't have a separate sheet so 10 I don't want to overlook anyone. 11 Mr. Delmar? 12 MR. DELMAR: Yes, that's me, Peter. 13 I don't know if I have anything to add, but I 14 just wanted to say that there's been a group of us 15 who have been working on this for seven years. 16 And my wife is Maureen Crowley, and we just went 17 to a conference in Minneapolis for the Rails to 18 Trails Program that works with abandoned 19 railroads, for the most part, creating trails. 20 And people were there talking about how hard it 21 was and how they were working for two years and 22 three years to get their projects done. We've 23 been working on this for seven. And out there in 24 the Midwest in Minneapolis we saw some trails that 25 had been created there in that particular city, in 32 1 addition to saving their warehouse district which 2 is very similar to ours that's also in Jersey 3 City. And I think it's very important to know 4 that so many cities around the country are saving 5 their landmarks and their industrial sections for 6 preservation for the use of the city and their 7 trails. And it's happening everywhere else. And 8 I understand that it's not something that you guys 9 control, but you could contribute to it. And as 10 Mr. Manzo said, if there's some way that you can 11 show your support in some small way, I think that 12 would be really helpful. 13 (Applause.) 14 MS. CREW: Julio Contreras? 15 MR. CONTRERAS: Yes. I live in 16 Hamilton Park. And the only thing that I know 17 about, how difficult it is for you to share the 18 little amount of money that you have with all the 19 projects that are so important for the community. 20 But you have to understand that this situation is 21 not by design, but it's the circumstances that 22 help put our group in this situation and are 23 being -- forced us to come here and plead with you 24 to help us because it's so important for our 25 community. Thank you. 33 1 MS. CROWLEY: Maureen, do you have 2 anything you want to add. 3 MS. CROWLEY: No, I just wanted to 4 add to what Dave said, about how critical this 5 project is. 6 MS. CREW: Charles Kessler? 7 MR. KESSLER: I'll pass. 8 MS. CREW: Patricia Guida. 9 MS. GUIDA: I'll pass. 10 MS. CREW: Laura Skolar. 11 MS. SKOLAR: I'll pass. 12 MS. CREW: Catherine Townsend. 13 MS. TOWNSEND: I'll pass. 14 MS. CREW: Jamie Keller. 15 MR. KELLER: I just have a couple 16 words. Jamie Keller, I live on Fifth Street, so 17 it's in my backyard. I work at Ellis Island, I 18 see that's on this list, so I know how hard it is 19 to get money. It's hard to get a box of pencils. 20 And this is, you know, a leading landmark in the 21 nation. There are only so many dollars to go 22 around, but you sort of have to evaluate each 23 project individually, obviously, and see, you 24 know, what can be done, what are the consequences 25 if you don't fund this as opposed to that. If you 34 1 don't fund the soccer field for a year, there's -- 2 there are other soccer fields that can be made. 3 If you don't fund the embankment, it gets torn 4 down, there's no more embankment. You can't just, 5 you know, start from scratch. So try to keep that 6 in mind. I'm looking down the list and they all 7 seem certainly well warranted projects, but, you 8 know, just think of the consequences of not 9 funding as well as the benefits of funding. 10 MS. CREW: Just an aside here, when 11 I was at the Statue of Liberty the other day -- 12 (Laughter.) 13 MS. CREW: -- how dear you turn 14 your back on your own city? 15 MR. KELLER: Just tell it like it 16 is, you know... 17 MR. VEGA: We stand behind you, 18 though. 19 MS. SKOLAR: Can I rescind my 20 pass? I'm a resident of Jersey City Heights and 21 there are a lot of people here also from Jersey 22 City Heights that are involved with the park and 23 the reservoir. And we wanted to show you support 24 for the embankment, because the embankment is not 25 just a downtown issue, it's a Jersey City issue 35 1 and it's a Hudson County issue, and it's a very 2 important parcel that we believe very strongly 3 needs to be saved. So anybody that's here from 4 other parts of Jersey City is here because they 5 feel it's very important. 6 (Applause.) 7 MS. CREW: Barbara Landes? 8 MS. LANDES: I'll Pass. 9 MS. CREW: Anne Burns? Okay, maybe 10 it's Barry. 11 MS. BARRY: I'll pass. 12 MS. CREW: Sorry about that. 13 Werner -- I'm not even going to try -- 14 MR. MARGSPEN: Pass. 15 MS. CREW: Ed Fausty? 16 MR. FAUSTY: I'll pass. 17 MS. CREW: Paul Sullivan? 18 MR. SULLIVAN: I'll pass, thank 19 you. 20 MS. CREW: Sarah Muccifori? 21 MS. MUCCIFORI: I'm here 22 representing the Ellis Island -- 23 MS. CREW: Could you speak up a 24 little bit so -- 25 MS. JEFFERY: Liz will -- 36 1 MS. JEFFERY: Hi, my name is Liz 2 Jeffery. I'm director of program administration 3 for Save Ellis Island, and we just wanted to come 4 tonight and thank the Board for its support and 5 for all the time that you took to come out to the 6 island and visit what many people haven't seen, 7 which is the building on Ellis Island's south 8 side, the hospital complex, and we have -- it's 9 been our duty for the last four years to try to 10 get those buildings restored and open to the 11 public since the facility closed in 1954. It's 12 New Jersey's history, it's Hudson County's 13 history, it's Jersey City's history, and it's the 14 nation's history, and we very much appreciate that 15 you recognize the importance of the project and 16 the support. And we put out the bids today for 17 the job, so -- we're a little short, but we're 18 going to stretch and see what we can do and we 19 will have the project begin construction, 20 hopefully, within the next 90 days. So, that's 21 the first of the -- New Jersey's building 22 facility, the exterior was already done and we 23 didn't have to spend any money in that department, 24 the State of New Jersey. And then with the help 25 of our new partners, Hudson County, we will 37 1 restore the interior and put an exhibit in that. 2 I hope all of you will come. Keep your eyes and 3 ears out, there will be news about it, I'm sure. 4 And I just want to make one note. 5 On your recommended open space and preservation 6 projects, you have the total project cost for the 7 ferry terminal as 600,000 because that was our 8 request. But the total project cost of that is 9 two million eight. So we're -- there's matching 10 and leveraging a lot of money, like 2.2 already. 11 So I just wanted to make sure that the record was 12 corrected, so that the total project is 2.8. 13 Okay? Thank you very much. Thanks again. 14 MS. CREW: Suzy Winkler? 15 MS. WINKLER: Hi. Just briefly, 16 I'm a resident of Jersey City for 22 years. If we 17 lose the embankment, the green space will be 18 gone. There's no chance that the developer will 19 keep the embankment up. It will disappear and we 20 will lose our shot at green space again. In a 21 city where it's known that meridians in between 22 main roads are green space, I beg you to consider 23 it and help us keep this gem. 24 MS. CREW: David Boyle? 25 MR. BOYLE: I'll pass. 38 1 MS. CREW: Robert Napiorski? 2 MR. NAPIORSKI: My name is Robert 3 Napiorski. I'm a resident of Ward A. I'm from 4 320 Stevens Avenue. I was raised in the city my 5 entire life. I went to school here, I went to 6 high school here, and I currently go to 7 St. Peter's College. I love this city dearly. 8 They were making quotes, we heard some from 9 Shakespeare, and I'm going to make mine from a 10 movie, Field of Dreams -- "If you build it, they 11 will come." 12 (Applause.) 13 I feel like I'm representing the 14 younger population of the city. And if you go 15 through the parks, the younger population 16 primarily use the parks, passive and active. And 17 I just feel, getting back to the history point of 18 view, James J. Ferris built that, the one who the 19 high school downtown is named after. This park is 20 such a vital piece -- and the young lady over here 21 said that people around the city -- that's showing 22 that this is not a downtown issue. The city and 23 county, everyone is after this. And they are 24 right. If they don't act on this as soon as 25 humanly possible with the money allotted, the 39 1 developer -- I was there at City Hall. This guy 2 is hell bent on tearing this down, making a quick 3 buck, and getting out. That's his deal. He swung 4 low blows to the City Council right before they 5 voted on it. He pulled out the historic 6 preservation thing saying, oh, that section of 7 Brunswick Street, is that part historic and 8 supposed to be preserved? And Bob can't lie, and 9 he said, no, it's not. That's like a low blow, 10 like a basketball game, that's the 30 seconds off 11 the shot clock. That's pretty much what he did. 12 And I've seen this man. He does 13 not care. He does not care about what the 14 residents think; he does not care about what the 15 city thinks. He's here to get a quick buck. He's 16 from New York. What the hell does he know? 17 Seriously. Seriously. I mean, and even 18 Manhattan, they've got their own thing. They've 19 got the industrial highline going through the 20 neighborhood of Chelsea that they're pushing to 21 redevelop. And I know Paris, whole different side 22 of the world almost, has their own. I mean, 23 there's so many great cities, and I love this city 24 dearly. I'm on forums, on websites constantly 25 checking news. And Jersey City is not just 40 1 important to the County. I'm on this forum, and 2 people from Brooklyn, Queens, Long Island, 3 Westchester, North Jersey, Southern Jersey, Asbury 4 Park, all the way down to Cape May, care about 5 this city and put their input on the forums every 6 day. People that come to work here from nine to 7 five can go back home to the burbs. And we think 8 that they don't really care, but they do. 9 This is so vitally important. And 10 I tried to get a group of kids here from St. 11 Peters College, I'm on the swim team there, a lot 12 of my friends are on athletic teams and are 13 interested but couldn't make it. So I'm speaking 14 for a lot of kids there. A lot of kids don't know 15 what to do, but I'm in the college and I show them 16 what to do. I told them directions to get here. 17 I have a website where I post information to the 18 college kids -- bars, restaurants, art galleries, 19 concerts, everything. And these are one of the 20 things that when I put it up there on that web 21 page, so many people thought it was a great idea. 22 And, yes, it might not be done in their time at 23 St. Peters College, or JCU for that matter, but 24 for the next graduating class or -- it's a benefit 25 for future generations, for my kids, because I 41 1 plan on raising my family here. I love this 2 city. My mother is a councilperson for Ward A. 3 And I love this city and I'm so passionate about 4 it. I want to be a city planner. That's what I'm 5 studying. And part of city planning, improve the 6 quality of life. And if this is done correctly, 7 if it's done the right way, done with the right 8 people, the right partnerships, this could be a 9 world class park in what I think could be a world 10 class city. Thank you. 11 (Applause.) 12 MS. CREW: Norma Sirken, if you 13 dare follow him. 14 MS. SIRKEN: No way. I pass. 15 MS. CREW: Robert Perrault? 16 MR. PERRAULT: I'll pass. 17 MS. CREW: Don Hutchison? 18 MR. HUTCHISON: I'll pass. 19 MS. CREW: Larry Alexander? 20 MR. ALEXANDER: Pass. 21 MS. CREW: K. Kenny? 22 MS. KENNY: Pass. 23 MS. CREW: E. Orionto? 24 MS. ORIONTO: I'll pass. 25 MS. CREW: K. Klanderman? 42 1 MS. KLANDERMAN: I'll pass. 2 MS. CREW: Sandy Sobawski? 3 MS. SOBAWSKI: I'm from a spot in 4 Hoboken where we claw for green space all the 5 time, even water space, so we didn't get our 6 funding for the boathouse. But this is like so 7 way important timewise, and I so hope you guys 8 don't let this slip through the cracks. 9 MS. CREW: Rick James? 10 MR. JAMES: I should probably pass, 11 but I'm going to make one observation, and 12 that's -- I don't know how many years I've been 13 coming to civic meetings, but I think we've 14 finally achieved the kind of synergy of art and 15 planning and open space and parks and all the 16 things that people are kind of crying in 17 respective wildernesses about, and all of a sudden 18 people realized that we're reinforcing one 19 another's aims and ambitions. And finally I feel 20 kind of good about all the time that's I've spent 21 sitting in this meetings. Commemoration that 22 something has come, at least in the Jersey City 23 part of Hudson County, has come together, and I 24 don't think it's going to be easy for a bunch of 25 rather selfish property developers who don't even 43 1 understand their own self interest. And all the 2 projects that we're pushing is what's bringing the 3 people with the energy and the skills and the 4 talents into Jersey City, into Hudson County. 5 (Applause.) 6 MR. JAMES: Having got my applause, 7 I'll shut up. If you haven't yet, read my 8 nomination because I think it might reinforce some 9 of the things that the people were talking about 10 tonight. With that I will be quiet. 11 (Applause.) 12 MS. CREW: Greg, do you have 13 anything further, Greg Remau? 14 MR. REMAU: Yeah. Briefly, what 15 I'd like to say is thank you to the council. It 16 wasn't long ago -- as a matter of fact, it was a 17 couple months ago that you guys all came together, 18 and a lot was thrown, I guess. And it probably 19 didn't look like you'd be here with this kind of 20 draft and doing the phenomenal work that you did. 21 So I just want to commend you for the whole list 22 of sites. Instead of dealing with the range -- 23 and I don't think we should be putting recreation 24 versus open space versus historic preservation. I 25 think you did a great job across the board. I 44 1 think and I hope everybody here recognizes, and I 2 think I'm as big a supporter as everybody else, 3 that this committee isn't for or against the 4 embankment. They've been supporting it from day 5 one, and it's a process issue that they're working 6 through. So everybody and everyone here has done 7 phenomenal work, but it's important to it -- these 8 guys are good guys, period. I don't want to 9 belabor it. I hope -- it's a tough decision. I 10 hope there's a way there to juggle a little 11 money. I hope maybe if we match that money it 12 will help out. But, again, my main point is to 13 commend you across the board for doing phenomenal 14 work in short order in very difficult conditions. 15 MS. CREW: Claire Perrault? 16 MS. PERRAULT: I'd like to defer to 17 Jenny Meyer, president of the Embankment 18 Coalition. 19 MS. CREW: Jack Chekijian? 20 MR. CHEKIJIAN: Just as a resident 21 right near the embankment, it would really like 22 make parking a horrible thing if houses were bit 23 there. And that's it. Thanks. 24 MS. CREW: Ilya Malinsky? 25 Tom Parisi? 45 1 MR. PARISI: I pass. 2 MS. CREW: Eric Flagg, I think. 3 MR. FLUGER: Eric Fluger. I live 4 in Jersey City. I just wanted to say very briefly 5 that this is an important project for all the 6 reasons that have been mentioned, and it is yet 7 another situation in which we have a popular 8 project. With lots of parks we're just running up 9 against the interest of the developer, and it 10 becomes a win or lose game with the county caught 11 in the middle. And we've been disappointed 12 before, and it's not attributable to anyone here, 13 but I think at this point a lot of ordinary people 14 who are working and paying taxes, and, you know, 15 watching these events and, say, okay, aren't my 16 interests being represented here? You know, who's 17 side are they going to come down on? And even 18 though it's not -- you're not really the ones 19 caught in the middle, but I think a vote of 20 confidence from the county would be really 21 encouraging, would be really helpful for general 22 confidence in government and, perhaps, encourage 23 some of your colleagues in other government to do 24 the right thing as well. I think maybe if you 25 step up and do the right thing, you'd set a good 46 1 example. 2 Do I have any time left? Because I 3 wanted to defer my time... 4 MS. DUBIN: Hi, I'm Amy Dubin. 5 I've lived on Fifth Street for the last nine 6 years. I bought a house there, and my backyard 7 butts up against the embankment. So I walk into 8 my yard and I can touch the embankment. One thing 9 that people haven't actually pointed out is that, 10 apparently, it's the migratory home of 11 butterflies. It's the migratory home of monarch 12 butterflies on their way to Mexico, or wherever 13 they go. A lot of butterflies fly there and rely 14 on that place and that ecosystem system, a very 15 unique ecosystem, that exists up on top of the 16 embankment, you know, to live. And there is just 17 a -- a very real threat of this embankment being 18 torn down. And when you tear down an ecosystem, 19 everybody knows what happens. You can't keep 20 taking away and paving over and expecting 21 everything to stay the same because they won't. 22 So on behalf of, you know, not just 23 because it's my backyard, it's a part of my 24 backyard, do I want it to be torn down and 25 whatever that's inside, our plants, our animals 47 1 dumped into my backyard, literally on my back 2 porch? No, I don't. But more importantly, the 3 ecosystem up there is so delicate and really ought 4 to be maintained. 5 MS. CREW: J. Smith? 6 Richard Meyer? 7 MR. MEYER: Well, I just say that 8 it hasn't been mentioned, a few people in this 9 room were successful in obtaining thousands of 10 signatures from people all over Jersey City 11 supporting the embankment. I come from a city 12 that has the largest parkland per capita. I come 13 from Milwaukee and I live on Hamilton Park and I 14 observe the oxygenarians, two-month-olds, kids in 15 the basketball court, et cetera. It's a very, 16 very vital part of a kid's life and an adult's 17 life. We need more parks in Jersey City. They 18 already exist, so it's not land acquisitions, et 19 cetera, by the city or the county. It's there, 20 and it would be an awful thing for it to fade away 21 like soldiers do. Thank you. 22 (Applause.) 23 MS. CREW: Katie Madariz? 24 Tim Keating? 25 MR. KEATING: I'll pass. 48 1 MS. CREW: Felicia Palmer? 2 MS. PALMER: Hi. I am a member of 3 the Board of the Embankment Preservation 4 Coalition, and I'm also a member of a group of 5 people who came together to fight crime on Sixth 6 Street called the Sixth Street Block Watch. I'm 7 coming here representing the folks who live and 8 have worked so hard to keep their properties up 9 and make that area a vital area. And the threat 10 for us, similar to you living on Fifth Street with 11 your backyard abutting it, is very, very real. 12 When we saw, after the property was acquired by 13 this developer, pretty much the next week he had 14 trucks on top of the embankment. He had dollies 15 up there doing digging and checking, whatever he 16 was doing. That's very, very scary. I have a 17 one-year-old child. I don't know what's up 18 there. I don't -- you know, it becomes now -- 19 it's not just -- it's a very, very personal issue 20 to people. You're talking about not only your 21 quality of life, but potential health hazards. 22 This developer, his attorney, it 23 just amazes me that this gentleman has no concept, 24 has no consideration for the people who live 25 here. I mean, how could you be so hell bent on 49 1 money that you have no consideration for what 2 people think that are going to be directly 3 impacted by what you do. And I think that this is 4 essential and what we're asking you to do is help 5 us to take a stand for the people. So many people 6 could not be here who are impacted by this, but 7 they're trusting that you all are going to be able 8 to hear through us what needs to be heard so that 9 you can help to do something about the problem. 10 You know, it's just really, really horrifying to 11 think that a man can come in and he's just going 12 to buy a property that's essentially owned by the 13 people and just turn it and tear it up and make 14 billions and change our lives and turn our lives 15 upside down. 16 So I'm just asking you, whatever 17 support you can give, it's not really about a 18 specific monetary number, it's really making a 19 statement so that we can feel encouraged. Because 20 as this keeps going on and on, we're fighting 21 every week and we've been going for seven years, 22 every week, every month it's another thing with 23 this developer. And it's very, very discouraging 24 and disheartening. So we need you to help us to 25 stay encouraged to fight, and we ask you to please 50 1 just make some sort of statement to help us to 2 continue. Thank you. 3 MS. CREW: I think it's Dinah 4 Bolivar? 5 MS. BOLIVAR: Pass. 6 MS. CREW: Pam Andes? 7 MS. ANDES: I have two points. I'm 8 a new mommy also. I've been in Jersey City also 9 about nine years. I'm from Middlesex County. 10 I've been coming to Jersey City because of the 11 Filipino community and I've been doing the 12 Santacruzan Parade passing through the embankment, 13 fell in love being here, got married, had a baby. 14 I now live on Cole Street and we have a dog and -- 15 (Laughter.) 16 MS. ANDES: If you come downtown, 17 life has changed. There's traffic, there's 18 certainly a lot of traffic. It's stroller 19 traffic. There's a mommy-to-be over here, one mom 20 here, all under the age of two, their babies, and 21 we want to stay. 22 My second point is, I want an easy 23 life and I want to go to work and I want my work 24 to be done when I leave. I want to cook dinner in 25 less than two minutes in the microwave. I want an 51 1 easy life, and I'm sure you guys would like an 2 easy life and an easy job, but we don't have an 3 easy life and we don't have an easy job. This is 4 not the easiest application. I wish it was 5 prepared perfectly for you and you can make an 6 easy decision, but this, like reiterating, it is 7 tipping the scale. All eyes are on you to save 8 this open space. It's not a County issue, it's 9 not a local issue, it's no longer a state issue. 10 It's really a universal, international issue, 11 who's going to save the embankment, and it's going 12 to have to be you. You're going to be the 13 heroes. I'm sorry, that's just your job. But 14 you'll be so heroes amongst other heroes, but we 15 have a slimmer of hope here and it's up to you 16 guys, so thank you so much. 17 MR. LaROSA: First of all, we're 18 not heroes; you are the heroes. Because there 19 would be no movement if not for the people. As 20 you all know me for many years, I believe that 21 we're after the same thing. But beyond that, I 22 think this panel, they all bring unique expertise, 23 and Steve's staff, Massiel, everyone has done a 24 great job. But this issue is a process, and I 25 think what's missing here is an unequivocal 52 1 decision from the city of Jersey City to say we 2 want the embankment. They have to do that. We 3 are only one part of the many leaves in a tree of 4 funding sources. That's what we are. So we want 5 to play our part. And each one of us here loves 6 all the projects. And my backyard -- the cultural 7 tourism that we've got, it took quite a few years 8 to develop tourism, just half of our development. 9 I understand all the points. It's a process. The 10 city has that do what they have to do. They need 11 to get on -- or else you've got to put pressure on 12 them. That's where it begins and ends. But we're 13 here to help, not to hinder. But the help goes 14 only as far as we can help. So I think if you 15 understand our dilemma, that is the -- so we're 16 not heroes; you're the heroes. 17 (Applause.) 18 MS. CREW: Janet Allen? 19 MS. ALLEN: I'm Janet Allen. I'm a 20 member of the Brunswick Community Garden on 21 Brunswick Street which is located on the 22 right-hand side of the embankment wall. The other 23 members couldn't be here tonight, but we do 24 support saving the embankment. Thank you. 25 MS. CREW: Tom McGlynn? 53 1 MR. McGLYNN: Tom McGlynn, I'm a 2 member of the Embankment Board, and I've been 3 thinking about the civic role it took to build 4 Central Park in the late 1870's, that was a time 5 of expansion and development in the whole 6 regions's history, and what would this city be 7 like without Central Park. And I think, 8 responding to the point made about the city having 9 the civic will to move forward with the projects, 10 I think the point made by Assemblyman Manzo and 11 Mariano Vega were that your decision would be the 12 tipping point to help that move forward in terms 13 of empowering the civic will of the city as 14 representative of this constituent. 15 So I think the real point here is 16 that it is at the tipping point, and we don't have 17 any choice. And I think the real tragedy would be 18 that this constituency would probably coalesce 19 around -- you know, we do share constituencies 20 with the -- for instance, the reservoirs of the 21 heights. But the real tragedy of losing the 22 embankment would be the dissolution of this 23 constituency for its cause. And I don't think 24 it's necessarily a matter of historic 25 preservation, but it's a civic issue. So that's 54 1 what I wanted to... 2 (Applause.) 3 MS. CREW: James Eaves? 4 MR. EAVES: I'll pass. 5 MS. CREW: Joe Rhee? 6 Vanessa Vega? 7 MS. VEGA: I'm a Jersey City 8 resident for all my 22 years. And as a 9 representative of the young people, I just wanted 10 to say that I've been going to these parks my 11 entire life. And I've never been to a city where 12 parks are more well used. If you go to a park any 13 day of the week you can see people fighting for 14 swings. I've been one of those people. I know. 15 Even when those swings, you know, had syringes 16 under them, we were fighting for spaces on them. 17 So I can't stress enough how important parks are 18 to this city. 19 I wanted to bring up something that 20 nobody else brought up -- just shadows, you know. 21 If we build building on the embankment, we're 22 going to have these towers in a space that 23 normally it lets in just enough light for these 24 blocks. I'd like to see shade trees, not enormous 25 buildings blocking my sun because we don't have 55 1 that many trees. 2 What else? I've been at school in 3 New Hampshire for the past four years, and my 4 school has the Appalachian Trail on its campus. 5 And I can tell you that it's an amazing thing 6 every year. The AT hikers come twice year, and 7 you can always tell them because -- well, you can 8 smell them from a couple blocks away, and they're 9 the ones with the big bushy beards or big bushy 10 legs, as it were, and I can't tell you how proud I 11 am to be in this, you know, mini metropolis in 12 Hanover, New Hampshire, to have all these people 13 who have travelled from Georgia to Maine, you 14 know, and have them say that this is my city, this 15 is a piece of me. So in support of what's been 16 said about this being a space on the Greenway, 17 I've been trying to convince people to come visit 18 me, you know, since I was very little, and having 19 to say things like, yes, you can park here, your 20 car will be safe on my block, you know, it's all 21 right if you walk to this restaurant, you know, 22 we'll be fine. I'm proud of Jersey City, you 23 know. A lot of people make jokes about me being 24 from Jersey -- oh, what exit? Well, I tell them 25 14C. It's awesome. And I really -- just another 56 1 sense of pride for me would be to keep this 2 embankment. 3 I know everybody here is in support 4 of this, and I think even the people who are here 5 to speak for other causes, I think, would put 6 their support to this, and I think I can say that 7 unequivocally, because they'll have kids too, and 8 those kids will want to play in this park. 9 What else can I say? It sounds 10 like we have St. Peter's students, lifelong 11 residents, an entire coalition, butterflies -- 12 Shakespeare wants this park. So, I mean, that's 13 all I have to say. Please don't let the 14 timeliness of this pass us by because if we don't 15 reverse the decision that's been made, then 16 there's nothing that we can do to get it back. 17 (Applause.) 18 MS. CREW: I would like to say as a 19 Weehawken resident who attends many, many, many, 20 many Planning Board meetings, if you showed up 21 like this at your Planning Board meetings you 22 would be tremendously effective. And I think 23 that's what you need to do next, is gather, go to 24 the Planning Board meetings, and then they'll get 25 to cringe when they see you when you walk in like 57 1 they do when they see me walk in -- oh, no, she's 2 back. 3 But we will take into consideration 4 everything you've said. I went through everyone 5 who signed up. I don't know if Bill Sheehan would 6 like to say anything. . 7 MR. HUTCHISON: I just wanted to 8 say to your point about the city -- a lot of us 9 here just came from the Planning Board meeting, 10 and your point about what Jersey City is willing 11 to do. That Planning Board had unanimously voted 12 down the developer's right to zone the property. 13 And I think their opinion was based on the legal 14 opinion of the lawyers of the city who gave the 15 opinion that the city is actively interested in 16 the property and wants to acquire it because of 17 the legalities of the railroad not going through 18 due process or by eminent domain. I think you 19 mentioned to the mayor's representative to get you 20 a copy of that statement from the lawyers, because 21 I think it shows the city's commitment to this 22 property. So I thought that was a point that, 23 maybe, that spoke to some of your concerns. I 24 just wanted to say that. 25 (Applause.) 58 1 MS. MEYER: I'm Jennifer Meyer 2 president of the Embankment Preservation 3 Coalition, and I thank you very much for 4 considering the application. We're aware that you 5 considered it very highly. We know that this is a 6 matter of process and we're pretty sure you're 7 convinced on an emotional basis, by these appeals, 8 and also on the basis of your judgement of the 9 application that this is a worthy project. And I 10 think everyone has made clear what's on -- what's 11 on right now. 12 In terms of project readiness, I 13 guess what I want to say is that the first step of 14 this project is acquisition. And we're ready to 15 acquire or it's about to happen. So whatever 16 contribution you can make will go, you know, very 17 swiftly to move through the first step in the 18 project. And then we will definitely be back with 19 another great application, hopefully for a much 20 larger, you know, portion to help with 21 the development of this great project. 22 And again, thank you to everyone, 23 thank you to Lou Manzo, and we expect tomorrow, 24 based on all indications that we're going to see 25 continuing involvement by the mayor's office. 59 1 Again, thank you, and thanks to everybody. 2 MR. SHEEHAN: My name is Captain 3 Bill Sheehan. I'm your Hackensack Riverkeeper. 4 I'm the chairman of the Meadowlands Conservation 5 Trust and I am two-time chair of the Bergen County 6 Trust Fund Advisory Committee. So I sit in a 7 chair very similar to the chairs that you people 8 occupy ever since 1999 when I was appointed by the 9 Bergen County executive. 10 Sometimes we have to be very, very 11 protective of the process that's set up, even when 12 it doesn't seem like the popular thing to do. The 13 embankment is a very, very good project, it's a 14 very, very important project, and it's a project 15 whose time has come. Actually, it's a project 16 whose time came a long time ago, but it's taken a 17 long time to get people on board with it. 18 If there is a function within the 19 county government to bring this to the Freeholders 20 as a separate application from your already 21 considered recommendation, that's the route you 22 should take. Because to reopen your 23 recommendation package at this late stage in the 24 game would be unfair to all of the other 25 applicants that were in the game from the 60 1 beginning that made it through the cuts, made it 2 through the deliberations, made it to that piece 3 of paper that you all have in front of you, and 4 then you turn around and say, oh, well, we're 5 going to bring this one in too. And then that 6 opens the door for the next -- you know, I can 7 name you a dozen projects in Hudson County that 8 are worthy of your funding, and they will all get 9 funded. But you don't want to ever cast a light 10 on what you people do as though it was controlled 11 somewhere else. You have to make the 12 recommendations to the Freeholders. The 13 Freeholders, by the way, by the way, they can 14 amend your recommendations, that's within their 15 power, and that's where the direction of the 16 Embankment Coalition should be headed. You make 17 your recommendations the way you set them, and 18 then let them appeal to the Freeholders Board and 19 say, we need money for the embankment, we're not 20 in this round of recommendations, what are you 21 people at the county level going to do for us, and 22 then it's up to the county to come up with the 23 additional funding. If you've spent all the money 24 in your trust fund, you can't make money out of 25 old cloth. You know? The money that comes in is 61 1 how much money you have to spend. You wish there 2 was more money; you wish instead of one cent there 3 were two cents. If it wasn't two cents, it would 4 be three cents. Morris County is up to over seven 5 cents on their assessment. And, believe me, 6 they're funding their entire Parks Department 7 through it too. They're acquiring land, they're 8 preserving land, they're doing all of the things 9 that need to be done and they're funding their 10 Parks Department through their open space trust. 11 Hudson County, this is it. You're 12 coming into the 21st century in land preservation 13 right now. All the other counties in New Jersey 14 have been doing this, and Hudson County is the 15 last one to get on board. I beg you to do it 16 right, because I have nothing but absolute respect 17 for every person sitting up there. And you need 18 to have everyone's respect so that when you make 19 your recommendations people take you seriously. 20 And I'm willing to work with anybody to get this 21 project funded, and anything that I can say or do 22 to the appropriate authorities, I'll do it. But I 23 just want to maintain the integrity of your board 24 and your process. I have a lot at stake because 25 I've been sitting in on your meetings and helping 62 1 you develop your process and guiding you and 2 helping you and giving you my personal experiences 3 and things that I've gone through sitting on the 4 boards and panels that I've been on. And let's 5 just -- let's just finish this round and get to 6 the embankment. That's what I say. Let's get on 7 with it. 8 MS. CREW: Thank you. I think 9 everyone who wanted to speak has spoken. If there 10 is anyone who wants to say anything, please speak 11 up, otherwise... 12 MR. NAPIORSKI: I spoke earlier. 13 This city has a plethora of unique parks Liberty 14 State Park, we have a beautiful park right here at 15 Lincoln Park, one of the most beautiful fountains 16 I think I've ever laid eyes on and I've been 17 across the United States -- one of the most 18 beautiful fountains you've ever seen. You have 19 Persian Field and the reservoir, which is a 20 chapter in a different book. And this would just 21 add to it. And it seems like every section of the 22 city has their piece of the pie as far as open 23 space -- Bergen-Westside has Lincoln Park, 24 Lafayette-Greenville has Liberty State Park, the 25 Heights has Persian Field, downtown has Hamilton 63 1 Park and Van Vorst, and this would kind of be like 2 a connector, parallel to it, but it would still be 3 a connector. It would be a park at a couple of 4 points. And I think it would just add to this 5 city's and this county's great unique park system 6 that no other county or city can claim, and I 7 think that that's something that if the city looks 8 at very closely... 9 (Applause.) 10 MS. CREW: I'd like to thank all of 11 you for coming out tonight. I welcome your 12 comments, all of us, and I hope you were listening 13 carefully to what Bill Sheehan was saying, because 14 he gave you a lot of information, and good 15 information, there. If anyone on the Board has 16 anything say... If not, do I hear a motion to -- 17 MR. MARKS: I would just like to 18 thank everybody for coming out tonight. I commend 19 you all for, and everybody has a busy schedule, 20 for going to the Jersey City Planning Board 21 meeting and here shows that you all have the 22 wherewithal, the resolve, and are firmly committed 23 and behind this project and shows me as 24 Commissioner on this board just how much support 25 that this project has, and I appreciate it. And 64 1 what you all had to say tonight does not fall on 2 deaf ears. There is a transcript; the transcript 3 is part of the official public record for the Open 4 Space Committee, and all of your comments will 5 also be forwarded to the Freeholders and the 6 County Executive for their respective 7 considerations. So I thank you, each and every 8 one of you, for taking time out of your busy 9 schedules to be here. 10 (Applause.) 11 MS. CREW: Do I hear a motion to 12 adjourn? 13 (Whereupon, the meeting 14 adjourned.) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 65 1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 I, TRINA B. OTHA, a Notary Public 3 and Certified Shorthand Reporter, do hereby 4 certify: 5 THAT the witness whose testimony is 6 hereinbefore set forth, was duly sworn by me; and 7 THAT the within transcript is a 8 true record of the testimony given by said 9 witness. 10 I further certify that I am not 11 related, either by blood or marriage, to any of 12 the parties to this action; and 13 THAT I am in no way interested in 14 the outcome of this matter. 15 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto 16 set my hand this 23rd day of September, 2005. 17 18 19 20 21 ---------------------------- 22 TRINA B. OTHA 23 24 25