1 - 1 - 1 HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD 2 RE: ) 3 MONTHLY MEETING ) TRANSCRIPT OF ) PROCEEDINGS: 4 ) - - - - - - - - - - - - - ) 5 Hudson County Administration Building, Freeholders Chambers 6 567 Pavonia Avenue, Third Floor Jersey City, New Jersey 7 Wednesday, October 18, 2006 6:30 p.m. 8 9 BEFORE: 10 RENEE BETTINGER, Chairwoman 11 KENNEDY NG, Commissioner 12 MARY AVAGLIANO, Commissioner 13 DANIEL CHOFFO, Vice-Chair 14 DOREEN DiDOMENICO, Commissioner 15 MICHAEL A. HOLLOWAY, Commissioner 16 DEMETRIO ARENCIBIA, Commissioner 17 JUDE FITZGIBBONS, Commissioner 18 ALSO PRESENT: 19 THOMAS CALVANICO, ESQ., Board Attorney 20 STEPHEN MARKS, Board Secretary 21 Reported By: 22 23 Mike Herman 24 25 2 - 2 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Good evening. 2 I'd like to call to order the Hudson County 3 Planning Board. Will each commissioner please 4 introduce themselves? 5 COMMISSIONER DiDOMENICO: Doreen 6 DiDomenico. 7 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Mike 8 Holloway. 9 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Mary 10 Avagliano. 11 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Renee 12 Bettinger. 13 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Daniel Choffo. 14 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: 15 Commissioner Fitzgibbons. 16 COMMISSIONER NG: Kennedy NG. 17 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Demetrio 18 Arencibia. That's it. 19 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: It's echoing 20 every time we speak there's a delayed -- 21 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: It's on 22 delay. 23 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: You got a 24 feedback. Got some feedback. 25 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: That'll drive 3 - 3 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 me nuts. Counselor, has this meeting been 2 properly advertised? 3 MR. CALVANICO: Yes, Madam 4 Chairlady. The meeting has been properly 5 advertised in accordance with the New Jersey 6 Open Public Meetings Act. 7 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Okay. Mr. 8 Secretary, may I have a roll call? 9 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Arencibia? 10 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Here. 11 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 12 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Here. 13 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Choffo? 14 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Here. 15 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 16 COMMISSIONER DiDOMENICO: Here. 17 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Dublin? Is 18 not present. Commissioner Fitzgibbons? 19 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Here. 20 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 21 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Here. 22 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Mehta? Is 23 not present. Commissioner NG? 24 COMMISSIONER NG: Here. 25 MR. MARKS: Chairwoman Bettinger? 4 - 4 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Here. 2 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, we have a 3 quorum. 4 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Thank you. 5 Please rise so we can salute the flag. 6 (Flag salute takes place.) 7 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Do I have a 8 motion to approve the minutes for the last 9 meeting? 10 CHOFFO: I motion. 11 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I would 12 like to approve but there are many errors 13 there that I think can be corrected later. 14 MR. CALVANICO: Yes. Madam 15 Chairlady, if I might. At the last meeting we 16 didn't have an official court reporter here so 17 we just did it with a portable tape recording 18 device and then had it transcribed. 19 Obviously, there were a lot of things that 20 weren't picked up. A lot of inaudible 21 sections on it but Commissioner Jasek, Bob 22 Jasek, the county engineer, has gone through 23 it page by page and made corrections to it. 24 So, my recommendation would be that we adopt 25 that version of the minutes and we'll have 5 - 5 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 that printed and redistributed to everyone. 2 But rather than read it into the record 3 tonight, we'll just adopt the document in and 4 of itself. 5 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Too many -- 6 actually, if I have his then forget it. Just 7 accept it as is. There are a lot of errors. 8 No sense -- 9 MR. CALVANICO: You can just accept 10 the minutes as amended by Commissioner Jasek. 11 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Okay. Do I 12 have a motion? 13 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Motion. 14 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Do I have a 15 second? 16 COMMISSIONER NG: I second. 17 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, motion made 18 by Commissioner Holloway and seconded by 19 Commissioner Arencibia. Commissioner 20 Arencibia? 21 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: That was 22 seconded by Commissioner NG, not by 23 Commissioner Arencibia. 24 MR. MARKS: Oh, I'm sorry. Seconded 25 by Commissioner NG. Commissioner Arencibia? 6 - 6 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 2 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 3 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 4 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Choffo? 5 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Aye. 6 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 7 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Abstain. 8 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 9 Fitzgibbons? 10 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Abstain. 11 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 12 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 13 MR. MARKS: Commissioner NG? 14 COMMISSIONER NG: Aye. 15 MR. MARKS: Chairwoman Bettinger? 16 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: I vote aye on 17 the amended version. 18 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, the motion 19 passed. 20 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: The first 21 item on this evening's agenda is the 22 memorialization of resolutions approved at the 23 last meeting. 24 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, the 25 memorialized resolutions are as follows for 7 - 7 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 applications: SP-35-06, Eagle Rock Group, 2 LLC, located at Willow Street and 18th Street 3 in Weehawken, New Jersey; Application SP-475- 4 06, Duncan Donuts, located at 216 County 5 Avenue, Secaucus, New Jersey; Application SP- 6 48-06, First Bank Americano, located at 201- 7 205 Frank Rodgers Boulevard in Harrison, New 8 Jersey; Application SP-85-06, 1911 Grand 9 Avenue Realty, LLC, located 1911 Grand Avenue 10 in North Bergen, New Jersey; Application SD- 11 86-06, St. Paul's Roman Catholic Church/James 12 Deluna, located at 178-188 Lembeck Avenue in 13 Jersey City; Application SP-88-06, Omnipoint 14 Communication's Inc., located at 431-437 15 Kennedy Boulevard, in Bayonne, New Jersey; and 16 Application SP-89-06, Omnipoint 17 Communications, Inc., located at 1084 Kennedy 18 Boulevard in Bayonne, New Jersey. 19 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Do I have a 20 motion? 21 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: I'll make a 22 motion. 23 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Second. 24 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, on a motion 25 to approve the memorialized resolutions made 8 - 8 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 by Commissioner Choffo, seconded by 2 Commissioner Avagliano: 3 Commissioner Arencibia? 4 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 5 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 6 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 7 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Choffo? 8 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Aye. 9 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 10 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Abstain. 11 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 12 Fitzgibbons? 13 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Abstain. 14 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 15 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 16 MR. MARKS: Commissioner NG? 17 COMMISSIONER NG: Aye. 18 MR. MARKS: Chairwoman Bettinger? 19 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Aye. 20 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, the motion 21 passed. 22 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Okay. The 23 next item on the agenda is the applications 24 declared to be exempt. 25 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, Application 9 - 9 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 SP-96-06, Antonio Ferreira/Mulock Properties, 2 LLC, located at 42-44 Harrison Avenue in 3 Harrison, New Jersey; and SD-97-06, Samar 4 Samman/Summit JC Properties, LLC, located at 5 381-385 Summit Avenue in Jersey City, New 6 Jersey. 7 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I vote to 8 accept. 9 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Do I have a 10 motion? 11 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Motion to 12 accept. 13 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I second. 14 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, on a motion 15 made to approve those applications made by 16 Commissioner Avagliano and seconded by 17 Commissioner Fitzgibbons: 18 Commissioner Arencibia? 19 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 20 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 21 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 22 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Choffo? 23 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Aye. 24 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 25 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 10 - 10 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 2 Fitzgibbons? 3 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 4 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 5 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 6 MR. MARKS: Commissioner NG? 7 COMMISSIONER NG: Aye. 8 MR. MARKS: And Chairwoman 9 Bettinger? 10 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Aye. 11 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, the motion 12 passed. 13 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: The first 14 application scheduled for tonight? 15 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, the first 16 application for public hearing this evening is 17 SP-73-06, Daibes Gas 19, LLC, located 1505 18 Kennedy Boulevard in Jersey City, New Jersey. 19 MR. PAOLINO: Good evening, Madam 20 Chair. How are you? My name is Eugene 21 Paolino from Schumann Hanlon. I represent 22 Daibes. I'm going to tell you a little bit 23 about this application. That appeared 24 magically. 25 The reason why we're before you is 11 - 11 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 because the property is located in an 2 interesting location. It is right on the 3 border of Bayonne and Jersey City. It's on 4 Kennedy Boulevard right here (indicating). 5 This is Kennedy Boulevard going south. 63rd 6 Street is actually the borderline between 7 Bayonne and Jersey City. This becomes, I'm 8 sure you all know it, becomes Route 440. 9 Across the way here is a strip center here 10 (indicating). This is a -- was an abandoned 11 gas station and the idea here is to make this 12 site into a bank, a Mariners bank, and we've 13 had a conclave of both Jersey City, since this 14 is in Jersey City. Mr. Marks of the county is 15 involved as well as the City of Bayonne. 16 We've made an application to the City of 17 Jersey City for site plan approval and 18 received it. We have pending application 19 before the City of Bayonne. That's coming up. 20 And I'm here tonight before you because of the 21 county portion of this. 22 I have one witness, Calisto Burton, 23 who is the architect. I'd like him to run 24 through with you what the plans are for the 25 project. The county's involvement is really 12 - 12 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 very, very limited and it relates to the 2 Kennedy Boulevard strip. Bayonne's 3 involvement relates to the 63rd Street strip 4 and the City's involvement relates to, 5 basically, the interior of the property. So, 6 that's your limited kind of view. But we'd 7 like to give you an overall idea as to what's 8 going on there since the county is, in fact, 9 impacted. Calisto? 10 MR. BURTON: Sure. 11 MR. CALVANICO: Madam Chair, if I 12 might. Mr. Paolino, just identify the 13 document that you were referring to, the 14 drawing. 15 MR. PAOLINO: I'll do that for you. 16 I'll do that for you. 17 C A L I S T O B U R T O N, having been first 18 duly sworn according to law, testified as 19 follows: 20 MR. BURTON: Yes. I am Calisto 21 Burton. I'm the engineer for the project. So 22 now I can get in trouble. 23 MR. PAOLINO: We can do this by 24 question and answer but I think -- 25 MR. BURTON: I'll just go right 13 - 13 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 through it. 2 MR. PAOLINO: He's expert enough to 3 go through this. Why don't you just describe 4 the project and what we plan to do? 5 MR. BURTON: This is an existing 6 15,000 square foot -- a little bit more, 7 15,500 square foot site. What was operating 8 there was a Shell gas station. The site was 9 completely paved -- 10 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Can you speak 11 into the mike for the transcriber? 12 MR. BURTON: Sorry. I like that. 13 Okay. This is currently a gas station. It 14 hasn't been operating. We propose to put a 15 bank in. It's a 2100 square foot bank. The 16 site right now fronts on Kennedy Boulevard 17 with two driveways on Kennedy Boulevard and 18 has two driveways on 63rd Street. So in 19 redeveloping this site, we're going to 20 eliminate the two driveways closest to the 21 intersection, restrict the driveway on 63rd 22 Street to a right-turn out only. The same 23 with Kennedy Boulevard. Right now we have 24 four driveways, no access control and the only 25 right-turns out are the site. 14 - 14 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 We will be adding about 3400 square 2 feet of landscaping, which is, like, twenty- 3 one percent to the site. So we will be 4 reducing run-off in that. But also because of 5 the building -- well, we're taking the roof of 6 the building and recharging it into the 7 ground. So we will be reducing run-off from 8 the site. 9 There, in addition to being on two 10 town lines and the Bayonne -- well, 63rd 11 Street right-of-way comes well into the site 12 as you move to the west. There's also a 13 twenty-five foot wide sewer and drainage 14 easement that runs through the site. So it 15 limits our ability to develop the property. 16 Because of that and the shape of the property 17 where the two frontage is, we don't have the 18 drive-through tellers attached for the 19 building. They're remote. So we put them in 20 the back of the site. Jersey City wanted the 21 street front look so the building is up 22 against the street and all the parking is 23 behind it. 24 MR. PAOLINO: The board should know 25 that initially in discussions with the City, 15 - 15 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 and we've had a lot of discussions with the 2 City, this building was up here (indicating). 3 They didn't want that. They wanted it up 4 front. So we moved it up front. When we had 5 a relatively large meeting, the County was 6 concerned about the sidewalk here. In fact, 7 we have a number of items that were agreed 8 upon, were emphasized by the County. One was 9 that the -- all the sidewalks along Kennedy 10 Boulevard be replaced. That's what we're 11 going to have. We're going to show details of 12 the driveway entrance, which we did, and we're 13 obviously obligated to obtain all state and 14 local permits and approvals and county 15 approvals, which we're doing as well. So I 16 think that's about the bulk of what we have as 17 required by the county. 18 There's a letter dated October 6th, 19 2006 which we'll comply with. What else can I 20 add to this? There's eleven parking spaces 21 and, as Mr. Burton indicated, the drive- 22 through at entrance is remote front the 23 building itself. It's, basically, the swing- 24 in is off Kennedy Boulevard around and out. 25 The landscaping along here -- the 16 - 16 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 reason why you don't see any green is because 2 of the easement that we talked about. We 3 can't go down, roots can't go down. It would 4 cause a problem. So that's why you have the 5 green here and here and the building situated 6 here. 7 I should point out there's a 8 monument sign on the Jersey City side adjacent 9 to the sidewalk which will have the name of 10 the bank. We've gone through the signage 11 issues, the size of the letters, you know, 12 what they're going to be on, how they're going 13 to be lit. We went through all that and I 14 think we've satisfied the city because they 15 did approve it, City of Jersey City. We still 16 have to, as I said, go through the City of 17 Bayonne. Thank you. I think that's it. 18 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Commissioner 19 Arencibia, do you have any comments? 20 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Just a 21 couple. The driveway on Kennedy Boulevard is 22 right-turn in, right-turn out? That's the way 23 it's going to be, right? 24 MR. PAOLINO: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Okay. So 17 - 17 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 you're going to be posting signs -- 2 MR. BURTON: Well, this is a median, 3 as I recall it. 4 MR. PAOLINO: That's correct. 5 MR. BURTON: So we can't. We have 6 no choice. The only sign that was required, I 7 think, was there's a -- right here 8 (indicating) -- it's not showing on this 9 landscape drawing -- was a stop sign. 10 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Right. 11 MR. PAOLINO: Oh. I did not 12 identify the drawing. What we have here is a 13 landscape rendering. It's Drawing R-1 and it 14 has the date of 7/12/06. I don't know why it 15 has that date. I'm going to change it because 16 it was made yesterday. And it incorporates 17 all the changes that we've just discussed 18 that -- after our first submission to the 19 county which is replacing all the curbs. So 20 I'm going to change this date to 10/17/06. 21 Do you want to mark it as a -- do 22 you want it? If you want this, we'll leave 23 it. Any other questions? 24 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: That has been 25 identified for the record? 18 - 18 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 MR. PAOLINO: Yes. 2 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Okay. 3 MR. CALVANICO: Excuse me, Madam 4 Chair. Has that been submitted to the County 5 previously? 6 MR. PAOLINO: The landscape plan is 7 part of the package. This is just -- it's the 8 landscape plan colored up without all the 9 notes and other clutter on the plan to make it 10 easier for the board to see it. 11 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Madam 12 Chair, I would just like to add that the final 13 engineering plans be submitted to the Street 14 Marks and Planning and the county engineer 15 also. The plans should be updated, as you 16 just said, today with the new curbs and 17 sidewalks, handicap ramps -- 18 MR. PAOLINO: They are in fact 19 already updated. 20 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: All 21 right. Okay. So -- but I need to make sure 22 you include that all in the plans and a big 23 note saying that a road opening permit is 24 required before they remove curb or cut the 25 street. 19 - 19 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 MR. PAOLINO: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Madam 3 Chair, I have a few concerns. They're 4 actually preexisting from the corner to begin 5 with so I don't know if I'm just warning you 6 or this will affect two things. One is -- I 7 used to live in the area and still familiar 8 with it. People traveling south on the 9 Boulevard often times, in order to avoid the 10 light at 440 or West 63rd Street would cut 11 through that gas station to not have to sit at 12 the light, as a quick way to pass through, and 13 I don't know -- you know, maybe the building 14 will block -- you know, when it was a gas 15 station, it was much more open and people 16 would sometimes do that to avoid the light. I 17 don't know whether you're going to have that 18 problem with people coming through. 19 MR. PAOLINO: We'll take that into 20 consideration but I don't think that'll be an 21 issue because they would end up getting into 22 the lanes going to the remote tellers here. 23 So they'll be stuck behind other people. 24 It'll probably be worse. 25 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Okay. A 20 - 20 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 bigger concern, however, are people traveling 2 northbound from Bayonne on the Boulevard and 3 turning west onto 63rd. That's a preexisting 4 problem. There's two turn lanes in that turn 5 onto West 63rd. But West 63rd is not clearly 6 marked to have two lanes. 7 MR. PAOLINO: Don't we know that? 8 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Yeah. So 9 when two cars are turning together at the same 10 time, the one on the left, if they want to get 11 into your driveway or any of those driveways 12 there, it's not a great situation to begin 13 with. And I -- you know, you're building on 14 that site and it already preexists but I just 15 wanted to bring that to your attention. 16 MR. PAOLINO: Yeah. Perhaps the 17 County can do something about having two turn 18 lanes. 19 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: I'll look 20 into that. 21 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: We have to 22 talk to the State because that's the State's 23 signal. 24 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Any other 25 comments? 21 - 21 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: What 2 property is to the west of the subject 3 property? 4 MR. BURTON: There's a car wash 5 right next to us. It's a part of a larger 6 building but these driveways here are for a 7 car wash. They use the building. It's just 8 off the plan. And above us is a fast food. 9 COMMISSIONER DiDOMENICO: Duncan 10 Donuts? 11 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Duncan 12 Donuts. 13 COMMISSIONER DiDOMENICO: Duncan 14 Donuts, right. 15 MR. PAOLINO: And further down, 16 about a block away, is a Provident Bank on the 17 boulevard that also has a drive-thru window. 18 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: I got one 19 more question. How far is the Duncan Donuts 20 driveway from the new driveway? 21 MR. BURTON: The Duncan Donuts 22 driveway -- you can see the parking, Demetrio. 23 So it's just off the page. Here's their 24 parking lot. 25 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Is there 22 - 22 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 going to be any parking between the two 2 driveways? On the street parking, as you say? 3 'Cause it looks like they're really close 4 together. 5 MR. BURTON: I don't know if there's 6 parking allowed on there now. I don't recall. 7 If you want us to approach the town to make 8 sure that they put no parking, is that what 9 you want? 10 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Look into 11 that because you may not have room. 12 MR. BURTON: No. There wouldn't be. 13 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Commissioner 14 Arencibia says there's no parking. 15 MR. BURTON: Okay. You want us to 16 contact the town and -- I mean, the city -- to 17 make sure there's no parking? You're talking 18 about on the street, on Kennedy Boulevard? 19 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: On the 20 street, right. 21 MR. BURTON: Yeah. Okay. I don't 22 think there is but I'm not sure. 23 COMMISSIONER DiDOMENICO: I believe 24 the right lane is contiguous with the 25 sidewalk. I don't think there's any room 23 - 23 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 for -- 2 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Any other 3 comments? Do I have a motion to approve this 4 application pending Bayonne's approval? 5 COMMISSIONER DiDOMENICO: I move. 6 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Second. 7 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, on a motion 8 to approve Application SP-73-06 made by 9 Commissioner DiDomenico and seconded by 10 Commissioner Holloway: 11 Commissioner Arencibia? 12 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 13 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 14 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I vote aye 15 to improve it. 16 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Choffo? 17 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Aye. 18 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 19 COMMISSIONER DiDOMENICO: Aye. 20 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 21 Fitzgibbons? 22 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 23 MR. MARKS: That was an aye? 24 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Yes. 25 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 24 - 24 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 2 MR. MARKS: Commissioner NG? 3 COMMISSIONER NG: Aye. 4 MR. MARKS: And Chairwoman 5 Bettinger? 6 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: I vote aye. 7 MR. PAOLINO: Thank you very much. 8 Thank you. 9 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Thank you. 10 Good luck. 11 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair -- 12 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Our next 13 application? 14 COMMISSIONER NG: Is there a topic 15 of the agenda I could refer to? 16 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Sure. 17 COMMISSIONER NG: Thank you. 18 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, the next 19 application scheduled for public hearing is 20 SP-84-06, K. Hovnanian at Hudson Pointe, LLC, 21 located at 7200 River Road in North Bergen. 22 MR. SHALJIAN: Good evening. Madam 23 Chair and members of the board, my name is 24 Ronald Shaljian. I'm with the firm of 25 Schumann Hanlon as well. I represent the 25 - 25 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 applicant in this matter and I have one and 2 perhaps two witnesses. I intend to call Mr. 3 Fleming as my principle witness. I have a 4 traffic engineer if there is any questions for 5 the traffic engineer. 6 I'd just like to give the board just 7 a very brief description of why we're here 8 this evening. In July of 2003, this board 9 granted approval for a 201 residential 10 development complex which consisted of two 11 phases. One was in North Bergen and the other 12 one was partially located in North Bergen and 13 Guttenberg. As a result of some litigation 14 with the town of Guttenberg, and eventual 15 settlement, Guttenberg reached the conclusion 16 that they wanted to purchase a portion of the 17 property and develop a park on a part of the 18 property that we were under contract by at the 19 time. Guttenberg did, with the help of the 20 county, raise the money to purchase the area 21 that they were going to construct a park on. 22 And we are here this evening because, as a 23 result of their purchase, we are reducing the 24 size of the building that is in Phase 2 of 25 this development. 26 - 26 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 The second phase originally 2 consisted of fifty-five units and we are now 3 reducing the size of the building to twenty- 4 four units and all of those units are now 5 located in North Bergen. 6 We have appeared before the North 7 Bergen planning board. We have one more 8 hearing very shortly over the next week or so. 9 But we come before you this evening because 10 this property is located on a county road and 11 therefore the county has jurisdiction. We 12 have met with the county, we have met with the 13 engineers. We've had a conceptual review with 14 the planning board. I think we've addressed 15 the concerns that the planning board has 16 perhaps at this point I could turn it over to 17 Mr. Fleming and he can give you an engineer's 18 perspective of what the project is about. Mr. 19 Fleming? 20 G A N N E T T F L E M I N G, having been 21 first duly sworn according to law, testified 22 as follows: 23 MR. SHALJIAN: Mr. Fleming, are you 24 the project engineer for Hudson Pointe? 25 MR. FLEMING: Yes, I am. 27 - 27 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 MR. SHALJIAN: And you are the 2 project engineer from the outset, is that 3 correct? 4 MR. FLEMING: Yes, I am. 5 MR. SHALJIAN: Would you tell the 6 board why we're here this evening for this 7 amended site plan application? 8 MR. FLEMING: Well, your summary is 9 quite accurate. We're here simply because we 10 are on a county road, River Road, at the top 11 of the drawing, and what we call the south 12 building, the second part of this overall 13 development right up against Bolsferry -- this 14 is Bolsferry to the left of the drawing. Our 15 phase 1 is actually under construction. For 16 those of you who travel on River Road, you'll 17 see that this is actually under construction. 18 This south building has been reduced to -- I'm 19 just going to flip over what is convenient 20 overlay and it shows the reduced footprint for 21 the second building. It is four stories of 22 stacked units. There is a single level of 23 parking that exists below this building and we 24 have worked out our ingress/egress with the 25 county engineer at this location. 28 - 28 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 In addition to the building and a 2 vehicular access, this project provides a 3 critical link for the pedestrian walkway as 4 you carve by the New Jersey Department of 5 Environmental Protection from the Bolsferry 6 walkway, which is over here to the left. 7 You'll carry the walkway back towards River 8 Road. It will carry it across and connect to 9 what is our Phase 1 waterfront walkway, which 10 ultimately connects back to the walkway that 11 goes by the hospital crossroads. 12 So, that's it in a nutshell. We 13 have worked with the emergency services group, 14 North Bergen, to their satisfaction. They 15 feel that they can access the site in any 16 level of emergency, whether it's a small 17 ambulance type of approach -- we've provided a 18 depressed -- we've kind of extended depressed 19 curb at the driveway location. We have grass 20 pavers that allow an ambulance or any 21 emergency service vehicle to access the 22 waterfront walkway. The waterfront walkway is 23 sixteen feet wide and it's structurally stable 24 to support any rescue vehicle that we want. 25 So, again, whether it's a small ambulance 29 - 29 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 rescue or whether it's a full scale fire vent 2 where they have to get an aerial truck without 3 raiders, we have the provisions to support 4 that on the site and the emergency services 5 group is satisfied to that extent. 6 MR. SHALJIAN: Mr. Fleming, what are 7 the benefits, the social benefits -- 8 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Excuse me, 9 Mr. Fleming, before you go any further, can 10 you please identify the drawing that you're 11 referring to for the record? 12 MR. FLEMING: Yes. This is a 13 drawing identified as Site Plan. It is -- we 14 actually marked this into evidence in our 15 planning board hearings and the last date is 16 8/15/06. 17 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: And the -- 18 MR. FLEMING: Maybe I should show 19 the fully engineered site plan just for the 20 record. 21 MR. SHALJIAN: Is that part of the 22 package that the board has? The plans? 23 MR. FLEMING: Yes, it is. 24 MR. SHALJIAN: Okay. 25 MR. FLEMING: The drawing that I put 30 - 30 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 on the easel is Drawing C4, last revised is 2 9/29/06. And this accurately shows the Phase 3 1, which is under construction, and our 4 proposed Building 2 with twenty four units 5 with all the geometry for roadways and parking 6 that's proposed. 7 MR. SHALJIAN: Getting back to the 8 question that I asked you a few moments ago in 9 terms of the benefits of the site layout -- 10 MR. FLEMING: There are several 11 benefits. I made mention of the waterfront 12 walkway providing a critical length back to 13 the waterfront walkway that's now under 14 construction for Phase 1. It connects to the 15 Palisades, General Hospital, all the way -- 16 and this walkway now is contiguous all the way 17 down to flea market. 18 MR. SHALJIAN: But a portion of the 19 walkway will go through the Guttenberg park, 20 will it not? 21 MR. FLEMING: That's correct. 22 MR. SHALJIAN: Who is under an 23 obligation to construct that walkway? 24 MR. FLEMING: There is an agreement 25 for K. Hovnaian to construct this 88-foot 31 - 31 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 section of waterfront walkway -- 2 MR. SHALJIAN: For Guttenberg? 3 MR. FLEMING: -- for Guttenberg. 4 MR. SHALJIAN: At their own expense? 5 MR. FLEMING: Yes. 6 MR. SHALJIAN: Okay. 7 MR. FLEMING: In addition to that, 8 and this is part of the county agreement, that 9 the access for this community park will come 10 through this intersection. So we provided an 11 opening for vehicular access to this kind of 12 joint County of Hudson/Guttenberg community 13 park. So that's another attribute of this 14 application. 15 MR. SHALJIAN: Okay. Now, is the 16 site because of the -- the depth of the site, 17 are you constrained by the size of the parking 18 that's available or the amount of parking that 19 you can put on a site? 20 MR. FLEMING: Yeah. The site is 21 constrained. When you look in comparison to, 22 say, the land mass that we had to work with 23 with Bolsferry versus the land mass that we 24 have to this corner, this is a small cove 25 area. We do have mean high water levels that 32 - 32 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 provide statutory limitations for eastward 2 movement of the development. And the State of 3 New Jersey requires a thirty-foot easement for 4 the waterfront walkway. So when we had the 5 mean high water limitations, the easement for 6 the waterfront walkway, we have a limited 7 amount of terrain in which to position this 8 building. 9 MR. SHALJIAN: Now, Mr. Fleming, did 10 you see the letter from Mr. Marks dated 11 October 6th, 2006 with a report of TNM 12 Associates attached? 13 MR. FLEMING: Yes, I did. 14 MR. SHALJIAN: Did you read it? 15 MR. FLEMING: Yes, I did. 16 MR. SHALJIAN: And did you discuss 17 it with the developer? 18 MR. FLEMING: Yes. 19 MR. SHALJIAN: And did the developer 20 agree to comply with the comments in those two 21 letters? 22 MR. FLEMING: The most selling 23 comment is the request for a bicycle rack and 24 we'll provide that. We think the best 25 opportunity for the bike rack is we have two 33 - 33 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 groupings of benches and receptacles and light 2 posts on the waterfront walkway within this 3 property. We also have a third that will 4 exist within the Guttenberg portion of the 5 site. Perhaps this particular pod right here 6 would be the best position for the bicycle 7 rack. 8 MR. SHALJIAN: I don't have any 9 further questions of Mr. Fleming. I have 10 Scott Kennel who is a traffic engineer here in 11 the event the board or its engineer has any 12 questions specifically. 13 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: You 14 reduced the size of the building dwelling 15 units? 16 MR. FLEMING: The -- 17 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: How much 18 was the original? 19 MR. SHALJIAN: Fifty-five. 20 MR. FLEMING: Yeah, fifty-five. 21 MR. SHALJIAN: It went from fifty- 22 five to twenty-four. Just to be clear -- I'm 23 just going to put back the colored exhibit. 24 This is what was approved before and now we're 25 going to that footprint. This substantially 34 - 34 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 smaller footprint. 2 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: How wide is 3 the walkway? 4 MR. FLEMING: The paved walkway is 5 sixteen feet clear. The little pad areas for 6 the benches and receptacles are outside of 7 that sixteen feet -- well, sixteen-foot 8 walkway. The actual easement area that 9 becomes recorded is thirty feet. And that is 10 exclusive of the grip wrap shoreline 11 protection. So it is thirty feet of usable 12 area of the site. 13 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: How many 14 parking spots are in the -- 15 MR. FLEMING: Parking, I just don't 16 trust my memory here. I'm just going to go to 17 my cheat sheet. We have fifty-one total 18 parking spaces for this complex, forty-nine 19 are required by the residential site 20 improvement standard and so we comply. 21 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Are there 22 any commercial units on site? 23 MR. SHALJIAN: No. I should make 24 mention that our requirement for public 25 access. The DEP requirement for public 35 - 35 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 parking has been satisfied within this Phase 2 1. We have twelve spaces that are designated 3 for -- to use to come from wherever they come 4 from. Now, not limiting the Hudson County, 5 not limited to North Bergen, from anywhere to 6 come and park in one of these designated 7 stalls to be able to access and walk on the 8 waterfront walkway. And that number of 9 designated spaces takes care of the overall 10 commitment for this development. 11 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Do I have any 12 comments from our engineering consultant? No 13 comments? 14 MR. KLEIN: No. 15 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Any other 16 commissioner? 17 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: I've got 18 some comments. The internal site circulation 19 with the truck turnings inside the site, has 20 that been looked at a little deeper? 21 MR. FLEMING: It has. We know that, 22 for the purposes of the events of moving 23 furniture, we know that the internal site 24 circulation cannot accommodate a WB-50 or 25 larger moving van. So we know that it's part 36 - 36 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 of the requirements for the sale of these 2 units that they will have to require the 3 delivery of furniture to be broken down into 4 smaller box-like trucks, like an SU-30. We 5 know that an SU-30 truck can get into the site 6 and once it's into the site, can position 7 itself, unload the furniture. It has to make 8 a few K-turns but it can get out. 9 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: But either 10 moving vans or trailer types -- 11 MR. FLEMING: We know that we can 12 accommodate -- 13 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Can 14 accommodate. All right. 15 MR. FLEMING: -- the trailer types. 16 But, I should state that for the purposes of a 17 rescue event for hook and ladder, that the 18 access -- this is a grass paver area here so 19 most people won't see that but the emergency 20 services will see that. They will simply hop 21 the curb and position themselves for fire 22 rescue, whether it's fire suppression or 23 pulling people out of the building. They have 24 plenty of room -- in fact, the angle from the 25 path to the building is ideal. 37 - 37 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Does 2 concern in the future years from now and 3 somebody's moving and tries to back in a 4 trailer from River Road -- it does sound 5 crazy. 6 MR. FLEMING: And we acknowledge 7 that. And so within the bylaws of this 8 condominium association they will not be 9 allowed to bring vehicles larger than an SU-30 10 vehicle. 11 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: There's 12 also an easement that you will need for the 13 parking from the county, right? So that's 14 going to have to be negotiated -- 15 MR. FLEMING: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: -- with the 17 county. There may be a fee with that as well. 18 MR. SHALJIAN: I've already begun 19 discussions with Mr. Batista on that issue. 20 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Okay. The 21 other thing, too, is River Road is very 22 congested. And years from now people that 23 live at the project may request a traffic 24 signal. You know, we get that from time to 25 time but I figure it should be written into 38 - 38 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 the bylaws any request for a traffic signal 2 has to be paid for by the association. If it 3 does meet any warrants, it's unlikely, but 4 there's not enough -- 5 MR. FLEMING: Twenty-four units. 6 Theyd Need one heck of an engineer to substantiate that 7 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: But they 8 should understand that it's going to cost them 9 if they want to do traffic improvements. 10 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I got a 11 question. Did you get all the approvals from 12 all the necessary agencies? 13 MR. FLEMING: Almost done. We have 14 one more meeting with North Bergen next 15 Tuesday night. We have soil erosions under 16 control in hand. Our application to amend our 17 DEP permits -- again, we're going through a 18 lessening of impasse so we expect we'll full 19 approval from the department. 20 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: And a 21 shortage of guardian -- 22 MR. FLEMING: Yes. It's taken care 23 of. 24 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: This 25 project was previously approved of years ago. 39 - 39 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 MR. FLEMING: Yes, it was. 2 MR. SHALJIAN. 2003. 3 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: 2003. 4 MR. FLEMING: But we still have an 5 obligation -- the commissioner's correct. We 6 have an obligation to amend these 7 applications. They're in process. 8 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Any other 9 comments? Mr. Marks? 10 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, I just want 11 to emphasize one point for the record which 12 the assistant county engineer had brought to 13 light. This project is relying on a sliver of 14 land which is owned by the county. It's 15 county right-of-way and it's up to the board 16 whether to accept the project with that 17 contingency. It's not up to the board the -- 18 any easements have to be granted by the board 19 of Chosen Freeholders. So, it's up to this 20 board to essentially accept the application as 21 is and recommend that an easement be granted 22 to the freeholder board but it's not 23 necessarily a given that the freeholder board 24 will accept the recommendation. Within the 25 county's right -of-way, I also believe -- it's 40 - 40 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 my understanding, are part of the twelve 2 spaces for the Hudson River waterfront walkway 3 access -- 4 MR. FLEMING: That's correct. 5 MR. MARKS: -- which is an eligible 6 purpose. So it's probably -- personally I 7 think the benefits outweigh the costs of 8 granting the easement. 9 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Okay. That 10 said, do I have a motion to approve this 11 application? 12 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I have 13 one more question. 14 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: There's 16 no tax abatement on that, is there? 17 MR. SHALJIAN: No, there isn't. 18 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: I'll make a 19 motion. 20 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I'll 21 second. 22 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, on a motion 23 to approve Application SP-84-06 made by 24 Commissioner Choffo and seconded by 25 Commissioner Fitzgibbons: 41 - 41 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 Commissioner Arencibia? 2 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 3 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 4 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I vote aye. 5 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Choffo? 6 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Aye. 7 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 8 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 9 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 10 Fitzgibbons? 11 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 12 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 13 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 14 MR. MARKS: Commissioner NG? 15 COMMISSIONER NG: Aye. 16 MR. MARKS: And Chairwoman 17 Bettinger? 18 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Aye. 19 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, the motion 20 passed. 21 MR. SHALJIAN: Thank you. 22 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Thank you 23 very much. 24 MR. CALVANICO: Madam Chairlady -- 25 Mr. Fleming, before you go, the flip-over 42 - 42 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 piece, did you identify that as anything or -- 2 MR. FLEMING: This is a piece from 3 this drawing. It's just taking this element 4 of C-4. 5 MR. CALVANICO: Oh, you just took it 6 off C-4? Okay. 7 MR. FLEMING: Just added some color 8 to it. 9 MR. CALVANICO: All right. Thank 10 you. 11 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, the next 12 application scheduled for public hearing is 13 SP-92-06, NY SMSA d/b/a Verizon Wireless, 14 located at 700-710 North 4th Street in East 15 Newark. 16 MR. MOLICA: Good evening, Madam 17 Chairwoman. Tom Molica from the firm Vogel, 18 Chait, Collins, Schneider and Morristown on 19 behalf of the applicant Verizon Wireless. 20 Verizon is seeking used variance approval in 21 East Newark before the East Newark Board of 22 Adjustment for the installation of six 23 wireless telecommunications antennas which are 24 to be installed on the existing billboard 25 located at 700-710 North 4th Street in East 43 - 43 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 Newark. No hearing date has been assigned. 2 The application is pending before that board. 3 We're here before this board because, I 4 believe, North 4th Street is also County Road 5 697. And I think that's the basis for 6 jurisdiction. At least that's what your 7 planner found in his correspondence dated 8 October 6th, 2006. 9 I have with me here tonight our site 10 plan engineer, Ms. Shaw from Innovative 11 Engineering and she can maybe provide the 12 board with some additional details and maybe 13 answer some questions, if there are any. Will 14 you have Ms. Shaw sworn in, please? 15 MR. CALVANICO: Yes. 16 M S. S H A W, having been first duly sworn 17 according to law, testified as follows: 18 MR. MOLICA: All right. Why don't 19 you put up the site plan there and just give 20 the board a brief overview -- 21 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Can you 22 please speak into the mike? Thank you. 23 MR. MOLICA: Sorry. Why don't you 24 kind of just give the board a brief overview 25 of the site plan and the antennas that are 44 - 44 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 going to be installed here? 2 MS. SHAW: What we have over here is 3 to propose a telecommunications facility on 4 the roof of the drive-up window of these 5 properties, also known as 700-710 North 4th 6 Street in East Newark. The telecommunications 7 facility consists of installing five equipment 8 cabinets on the roof of the drive-up window on 9 the Valley National Bank. The cabinets will 10 be installed on a steel platform which will be 11 supported by the masonry walls of the 12 building. Besides these cabinets, we are also 13 proposing six antennas total in sectors of 14 two, making it two antennas per sector. These 15 antennas will be installed on the billboard 16 framing, on the existing billboard framing, 17 which mainly consists of steel members. And 18 this site is a completely unmanned site, 19 although our technician would be required to 20 visit the site every four to six weeks for 21 maintenance purposes and he can always use the 22 parking space that's available for the bank. 23 I guess that's about it. 24 MR. MOLICA: I don't have any 25 further questions for Ms. Shaw. If the board 45 - 45 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 has questions, I feel that we can probably 2 answer whatever -- 3 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Madam Chair, 4 for the record, North 4th Street has not been 5 called that for the last ten years. It's now 6 known as Frank Rodgers Boulevard. 7 MS. SHAW: That's correct. 8 MR. MOLICA: That's correct. 9 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Just for the 10 record. 11 MR. MOLICA: Well, no, maybe we 12 should change that on -- 13 MS. SHAW: It says "Also known as 14 Frank Rodgers Boulevard" on our plans. 15 MR. MOLICA: Oh, yeah. 16 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Can you 17 please identify the drawing that you are 18 referring to? 19 MS. SHAW: Definitely. What I'm 20 referring to is Sheet No. Z-01. The site plan 21 dated 8/30/06, revision 3. 22 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Thank you. 23 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: I have another 24 question, Madam Chair. 25 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Yes. 46 - 46 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: The antennas, 2 they're going to be attached to the actual 3 bank building or to the billboard sign on top 4 of the building? 5 MS. SHAW: It will be at the higher 6 elevation from the building. The building is 7 two stories. The antenna will be above on the 8 billboard framing. The billboard actually has 9 a steel angle framing to support it and the 10 antenna will be attached to it on that 11 framing. 12 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: But not on 13 the building? It's on the frame? 14 MS. SHAW: It's not on the building. 15 It's on the framing of the building. 16 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Madam Chair, 17 I have a question. Is the weight of these 18 antennas going to do anything with the 19 billboard itself? The weight itself on it? 20 MS. SHAW: The antennas actually 21 weigh -- there are a total of six antennas. 22 Three of the antennas weigh about fifteen 23 pounds and three weigh ten pounds each. 24 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Okay. 25 MS. SHAW: That's approximately 47 - 47 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 adding twen -- sixty plus -- ninety pounds to 2 a billboard. They will be adding some extras 3 angle members to support that. So it will be 4 reinforced accordingly. 5 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Thank you. 6 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: What about 7 the -- you said you were putting up a steel 8 platform and steel cabinets, right? How 9 much -- are those heavy or -- 10 MS. SHAW: The equipment cabinets 11 are around 800 pounds each approximately. 12 Each cabinet has separate weight vessels but 13 they're around 800 pounds each. The steel 14 platform will be designed accordingly to take 15 that weight and the weight will be transferred 16 to the existing masonry walls which have a 17 foundation below grade so they will be -- they 18 are not bearing walls and they will be able to 19 take the weight. 20 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: So you 21 checked that with a structural engineer to 22 certify that it's going to be held up without 23 a problem? 24 MS. SHAW: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Is that 800 48 - 48 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 pounds per cabinet, is that right? 2 MS. SHAW: Approximately yes. 3 MR. ARENCIBIA: Is that going to 4 require a crane to pick them up to the roof? 5 MS. SHAW: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: I suggest 7 then if you're going to be using the crane on 8 Frank Rodgers Boulevard where you have to 9 prohibit parking or you might have to shut 10 down the sidewalk, you're going to need a 11 permit from the county engineer's office for 12 that. 13 MR. MOLICA: I don't think that that 14 will be a problem. We would secure any permit 15 required -- 16 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Only thing 17 we do require is that the crane meet the legal 18 height and weight restrictions. 19 MR. MOLICA: Yeah. I think that 20 that's an -- we'd accept that as a condition 21 of any approval issue. 22 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: I'm just a 23 little confused. Where are the cabinets 24 going? 25 MS. SHAW: There is a single story 49 - 49 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 drive-up window. 2 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Okay. 3 MS. SHAW: And from here on, this 4 all is all two-story over here. The cabinets 5 are going on top of the single story drive-up 6 window. The elevation -- we're on Sheet 03 7 probably makes -- this is the drive-up window 8 right here. This is the roof of the drive-up 9 window. And we will be putting our steel 10 framing right here. Also, I'd like to mention 11 that there is a fence proposed on the edge of 12 the platform. It's a white vinyl fence which 13 will be circled over here so that almost -- 14 the goodments will be almost covered from a 15 person's view. 16 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Are you 17 familiar with it? 18 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Yeah. I'm 19 very familiar with it. I have one question. 20 Mr. Tridente, did you have the opportunity to 21 take pictures of this building? 22 MS. SHAW: Me? 23 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: No. Mario. 24 MR. TRIDENTE: No. Antennas we no 25 longer do inspections of. 50 - 50 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Oh, all right. 2 With this type of building, Madam Chair, it's 3 where they're putting the cabinets is right 4 above the teller window. It's only maybe 5 eight feet from the ground. And looking at 6 your application, it seems that you submitted 7 it to East Newark simultaneously with us? I 8 would feel more comfortable with the board 9 having possibly seen some pictures, if we 10 could do that, and also you obtaining your 11 approval from East Newark first. Because it's 12 not your typical antenna situation -- 13 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Right. 14 That's why I'm concerned. 15 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: -- that we 16 voted on in the past. 17 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: You have 19 to get permits from the township to construct 20 that. You have to go to a construction 21 official. 22 MR. MOLICA: Right. Pending an 23 approval from the Board of Adjustment we 24 applied for the building permits. Again, we 25 have an application pending in East Newark and 51 - 51 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 it hasn't been scheduled for public hearing at 2 this time. You know, we're appearing tonight 3 based on your directives. We are seeking an 4 approval. Obviously we would accept the 5 condition that any approval granted by this 6 board would have to be conditioned on approval 7 from the East Newark Board of Adjustment and 8 the securing of any -- and complying with any 9 conditions that they might feel appropriate. 10 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: This is just 11 something very different than the board is 12 used to hearing. Commissioner Arencibia, are 13 you comfortable -- 14 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: No. I 15 think -- 16 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: -- without 17 seeing any types of pictures or -- 18 MR. MOLICA: Do we have any photos? 19 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: I don't 20 think -- we're the county where we're supposed 21 to be looking at some of these issues. I 22 mean, we're looking at the impacts of county 23 roads and drainage and this really doesn't 24 have any affect on county facilities. 25 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: But if the 52 - 52 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 billboard falls onto the county road, it will 2 have an impact. 3 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: We're not 4 under -- it's actually inside the parking lot 5 so -- 6 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: So you're 7 comfortable pending of course -- 8 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: I'll say it 9 has to go through East Newark and the 10 construction official there has to review your 11 calculations to make sure this thing is going 12 to be held up. But that's not really within 13 our responsibility. 14 MR. CALVANICO: Madam Chairlady, if 15 I might, I was going to make the same 16 suggestion that the counsel -- you know, we 17 can make our resolution contingent upon, you 18 know, full approval from East Newark. And if 19 there are changes they'll have to come back. 20 That's all. 21 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Okay. 22 Commissioner Avagliano? 23 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: You haven't 24 gone before the East Newark board yet? 25 MR. MOLICA: No, we have not. 53 - 53 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Oh. We can 2 still approve it on the condition that -- 3 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Right. 4 That's what we were saying. 5 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: And of 6 course if it's really put down by East Newark, 7 you'll have to come back to the county again 8 to be approved. It just seems double work 9 coming back again. 10 MR. MOLICA: Or if East Newark 11 requires modifications to our site plan. 12 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: When are 13 you going back to East Newark? 14 MR. MOLICA: We haven't gotten a 15 hearing date yet. We haven't even began our 16 public hearing yet. 17 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Oh. Okay. 18 MR. MOLICA: We're hoping that it's 19 sooner obviously but I don't know when it will 20 be assigned. But I anticipate it should be 21 within the next four to six weeks or so. 22 Hopeful. 23 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: All right. 24 We'll approve on a condition. Otherwise they 25 got to come back. 54 - 54 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Okay. Do I 2 have a motion pending the approval of East 3 Newark? 4 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I'll make 5 a motion pending the approval from the East 6 Newark Board of Adjustments and also that all 7 proper permits and approvals from the 8 professional and proper permits from the 9 county be taken out, if necessary, and all 10 proper permits and approvals from the 11 construction official be carried out -- taken 12 out. 13 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Do I have a 14 second? 15 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Before 16 that, I'd like you to, when you do get all 17 that, forward everything to the county 18 engineer's department. 19 MR. MOLICA: Yes. We will do that. 20 We will do that. 21 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Finished, 22 Commissioner Fitzgibbons? 23 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Yes. 24 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Okay. Do I 25 have a second? 55 - 55 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Second. 2 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, on a motion 3 to approve Application SP-92-06 made by 4 Commissioner Fitzgibbons and seconded by 5 Commissioner DiDomenico: 6 Commissioner Arencibia? 7 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 8 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 9 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I vote aye 10 on behalf of the approval from East Newark. 11 Otherwise you'll have to come back here. 12 Thank you. 13 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Choffo? 14 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: No. 15 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 16 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 17 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 18 Fitzgibbons? 19 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 20 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 21 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 22 MR. MARKS: Commissioner NG? 23 COMMISSIONER NG: Aye. 24 MR. MARKS: Chairwoman Bettinger? 25 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: I vote aye 56 - 56 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 pending approval from East Newark. 2 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, the motion 3 passed. 4 MR. MOLICA: Thank you. 5 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Thank you. 6 The next item is New -- 7 MR. MARKS: Right. Madam Chair, 8 under Old Business, I just have one thing I 9 wanted to give out. This came up -- it's come 10 up from time to time and, specifically, I 11 remember in August with the Military Ocean 12 Terminal with the Bayonne Harbor subdivision 13 application. In this -- it was discussed what 14 jurisdiction the county planning board has 15 over the subdivisions which are not along a 16 county road. I did a little bit of research. 17 I'm not a lawyer, obviously, but I 18 highlighted -- this comes from Archibald Cox 19 of the New Jersey Planning Officials 20 Association -- put together a plenium of 21 planning-related statutes in New Jersey. This 22 is specific to the County planning legislation 23 and if I could just turn your attention to -- 24 the page numbers are missing on the bottom -- 25 but if I could turn your attention to the 57 - 57 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 third page. It's section 47-5.2 "Jurisdiction 2 Over Subdivisions." 3 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Mr. Marks, 4 can you just identify for the record what you 5 just handed out that you're referring to. 6 MR. MARKS: Sure. This is the New 7 Jersey Planning Officials Association book on 8 municipal land use law authored by Archibald 9 Cox. I don't have the page number but it's 10 Section 47-5.2 in the upper right-hand corner. 11 And it basically states the difference -- and 12 this may be his legal opinion. He's an 13 attorney with the New Jersey Planning 14 Officials Association. This isn't the actual 15 stat -- he addresses the statute in case law 16 but this isn't the actual statute where the 17 county planning board has jurisdiction over 18 all subdivisions within a county. However, he 19 distinguishes between review powers and 20 approval powers. Under Paragraph A, it 21 basically states and it was held up by case 22 law in the case of -- and I'm not an attorney 23 and I'm not practicing law without my law 24 license. But I know what I read and he cites 25 Builders' League of South Jersey versus 58 - 58 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 Burlington County and basically the county 2 planning boards, all twenty-one county 3 planning boards in New Jersey, have the power 4 to review all subdivision applications. 5 Likewise, the county planning boards, under 6 Paragraph D -- B, rather -- B as in boy -- 7 have approved specific approval powers over 8 subdivisions which are on county roads -- 9 adjacent to or along county roads. The key 10 difference is the review powers versus the 11 approval powers. In the review powers, the 12 county planning board may make recommendations 13 which are non-binding to the applicants and to 14 the municipalities. That still doesn't negate 15 the statute that requires that all 16 subdivisions come to the county planning 17 board. And then under Approval Powers, 18 anything along or adjacent to county roads or 19 affecting county traffic or drainage 20 facilities, obviously, need an actual 21 approval. And it's a slight nuance, I guess, 22 in the law, but it's something that 23 commissioners from time to time have asked me 24 and I didn't have a good -- 'cause the law 25 doesn't -- the actual statute doesn't 59 - 59 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 specifically address it. But this is 2 essentially Mr. Archibald Cox's -- I believe 3 it's Archibald Cox's opinion cited in the case 4 law on the matter. 5 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Thank you, 6 Mr. Marks. 7 MR. MARKS: Are there any questions? 8 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Not at the 9 moment. 10 MR. MARKS: No? Okay. Madam Chair, 11 under New Business, this came up and it was 12 visited on the K. Hovnanian at Hudson Pointe 13 application. There have been increasingly 14 requests by property owners, developers, 15 applicants who are coming before this board to 16 either build or put plantings or other 17 appurtenances within the county right-of-way. 18 It could be as simple as a fence and a 19 planting, basically shrubs or bulbs or 20 planting beds next to a building. In the case 21 of an application from Hoboken, I believe 22 Hoboken on a specific block had a zero lot 23 line. They had zero setback. So anything 24 that they were within -- on the county road, 25 anything that they were proposing outside of 60 - 60 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 their property they would need an easement for 2 being an encroachment within the county right- 3 of-way. It didn't really make a lot of sense 4 for a planting bed, either shrubbery or some 5 other flowers or things of that nature, to 6 actually have to go through the easement 7 process and go to the freeholders board for 8 plants. It didn't make a lot of sense but 9 that's essentially what the law is in terms of 10 easements and things of that nature. 11 There are other also -- there are a 12 lot of shades of grey here. There was another 13 application where -- I think it was also in 14 Hoboken where an applicant came before this 15 board. The actual -- there's, I think, a zero 16 foot setback so the building was right up to 17 the property line. About ten or twelve feet 18 above the street level were window boxes which 19 did -- it's not going to -- nobody's going to 20 bump their head walking on the sidewalk, but 21 in terms of their rights are within the actual 22 property lines, again, they would be an 23 encroachment within the county right-of-way. 24 I don't think there's any simple 25 answers to it. The county counsel has asked 61 - 61 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 that this board begin crafting a policy on it 2 because to come to the freeholder board about 3 a window box about ten or twelve feet above 4 the sidewalk may or may not make sense. 5 Likewise for shrubs. 6 In the case of the K. Hovnanian 7 application, it's more significant. And the 8 applicant for the project which was before the 9 board tonight, the SP-84-06, is putting or 10 proposing to put parking spaces within that. 11 According to the Hudson County Site Plan and 12 Subdivision Review Resolution, it's 13 recommended that no structural objects go 14 within county right-of-ways. However, that's 15 waivable subject to the approvable of the 16 freeholder board. 17 So the county counsel and the county 18 administrator have asked the Division of 19 Planning with the planning board to devise a 20 policy in which maybe even minor things 21 wouldn't need freeholder approval where 22 there's really no -- you know, things of 23 little or no value going within the county 24 right-of-way. And then perhaps things that 25 are of major value, and I'm not sure where the 62 - 62 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 threshold is on this, but things of major 2 value would of course have to get approved by 3 this board and then recommended to the 4 freeholder board for their action. 5 So I was sent an e-mail, which I 6 will distribute right now, by the county 7 administrator essentially asking us to review 8 it. It's specific to the attorney's contract 9 because I don't think we need to hire a 10 planning or engineering firm to draft a 11 policy. The easements are legal instruments. 12 They do require legal professional opinions 13 and subject matter. I think we could draft 14 the policy in house but I definitely think 15 that we need the professional services of the 16 county planning board's attorney. 17 I also noticed in the e-mail from 18 the county administrator that he recommends 19 getting three quotes. Those three quotes 20 would be if we went out to bid for a planning 21 or engineering firm. Since we already have 22 the services of the county planning board 23 attorney, it would be basically amendment to 24 his contract. That's basically -- I don't 25 have a resolution in hand. This was something 63 - 63 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 that was discussed at the Site Plan and 2 Subdivision Review committee earlier in the 3 month and it's something that, I think, the 4 board needs to address and I would, at least 5 at next month's meeting so it's not new to 6 everybody, I would put forth an amendment to 7 the county planning board attorney's contract 8 to address this matter specifically. 9 There's also the -- which we have 10 discussed in previous months -- the legal 11 research for the FDT site on Secaucus Road 12 which is not within the scope of the county 13 planning board attorney's regular duties and 14 contract and that would also incur an extra 15 expense. Obviously, it would be based on his 16 regular rate of pay or hourly rate. It 17 does -- 18 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: All 19 commissioners in favor? 20 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Are you 21 going to draft a resolution for this? 22 MR. MARKS: We'll have a resolution 23 drafted. Now, it was the opinion of the 24 county counsel, Mr. Dan Batista, that this 25 board does have the power to let the contract 64 - 64 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 for the planning board attorney. However, 2 since it was not within the 2006 county 3 budget, it does require a county budget 4 transfer which necessitates the approval of 5 the county freeholder board. So, it's 6 basically, again, it's a recommendation of 7 this board which needs freeholder board 8 approval as well. And, by law, we can only 9 make budget transfers after November 1st. So 10 it's the right time to do this. I would 11 also -- I don't think -- I didn't 12 specifically -- we discussed terms and funding 13 with the county administrator but I think 14 $10,000 would cover the costs of doing the 15 legal research on this as well as the FTP 16 potential lawsuits. 17 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: I agree, Mr. 18 Marks and if we don't have any other 19 objections from any of the commissioners that 20 we should include this on the agenda for next 21 month. No objection? Okay. 22 MR. CALVANICO: Well, one thing, 23 Madam Chairlady, just so you know 'cause I've 24 been working with Steve on this easement 25 piece. It's not a simple thing because other 65 - 65 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 towns generally don't have set policies for 2 them. And as Steve described a few minutes 3 earlier, the kinds of applications you get for 4 these things so widely vary. So you could be 5 talking about an awning that's twelve feet in 6 the air or the use of thirty feet of what 7 could be roadway kind of thing. So we may 8 wind up with a general kind of a policy where 9 we could include some guidelines but leave it 10 open-ended somewhat so that we can tailor it 11 to the specific facts of the situation. 12 'Cause I think that's the only way it'll be 13 workable. 14 My concern is that if we came up a 15 list of eight different criteria that the next 16 application that comes in won't -- 17 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Won't fit in 18 there, right. 19 MR. CALVANICO: -- fit in those, 20 specifically, and then we'll have to amend it 21 or something like that. That's it. 22 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Well, I have 23 confidence that you will do a great job, Mr. 24 Calvanico. 25 MR. CALVANICO: Thank you. 66 - 66 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Any other 2 comments? I would like a little feedback from 3 the commissioners for when we are at the site 4 plan review with this one application that 5 came before us this evening that something 6 with the -- especially the telephone 7 communication system. If it's not approved by 8 the municipality, should we include it on the 9 agenda pending or wait till it gets approval? 10 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I feel 11 that if it's not approved by the municipality, 12 it's null and void because we added in the 13 context that if they don't approve it then it 14 sloops. 15 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Okay. So 16 the right thing to do is to put it on the 17 agenda and just use -- 18 MR. CALVANICO: One of the problems 19 actually is that we have a statutory time 20 frame. We're supposed to render these 21 decisions within thirty days and if we don't 22 we need to get their consent to do that. We 23 haven't had a problem generally with that but 24 it's possible that somebody could say that. 25 You didn't approve it -- I mean, you didn't do 67 - 67 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 a resolution so it's approved, you know. 2 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: It's just 3 that this is such an unusual situation this 4 time. 5 MR. CALVANICO: Yeah. Well, that's, 6 you know, always what happens, isn't it? 7 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: If they had 8 a ruling whereby they should go to their 9 community to have it approved before they come 10 to the county -- and this way it eliminates 11 double meetings. It takes time away from us 12 and the people in the audience. So they 13 should go to their community. If it's 14 approved, then come to us. If not -- 15 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: That's what I 16 was referring to. 17 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I thought 18 that would be -- 19 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Mr. Marks? 20 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, that's fine 21 and good but it's not the way that the statute 22 is written. Under the municipal land use law, 23 they're supposed to come to the county or the 24 state first if it's a state impact on a state 25 road. And they need a state highway access 68 - 68 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 permit or if they need county planning board 2 approval. 3 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: So it's 4 either way. Okay. 5 MR. MARKS: I think it's -- maybe 6 within the packet that I gave you before -- if 7 you go through it, at each point whether it's 8 a site plan, subdivision, zoning variances or 9 whatever, it directs every municipal -- and it 10 governs all municipalities in New Jersey, 11 every municipal planning zoning board to look 12 to the county to sign off on it before they 13 approve it. 14 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Okay. 15 MR. MARKS: And it creates kind of a 16 circular argument if we're saying we don't 17 want to approve it until the municipality 18 approves it and then the municipality doesn't 19 want to approve it until we approve it. But 20 the law, the municipal land use law, gives the 21 municipalities home rule zoning authority and 22 land use powers. They're -- basically it's 23 their prerogative. We have secondary 24 jurisdiction on the matter. It doesn't make 25 us -- this board any less powerful or any less 69 - 69 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 influential but basically we have short time 2 frames. It's the thirty day -- the thirty 3 days kick in for deeming the applications 4 complete. Once the application is complete 5 then it should be posted unless the applicant 6 requests not to be. It should be posted to 7 the next available meeting. 8 We did, a year or two ago, in a 9 Hoboken application, Judith Bovinski was the 10 attorney for that application. We deemed it 11 incomplete until it was approved by Hoboken 12 and it wasn't at this meeting, it was on a 13 private telephone conversation, but she read 14 me the riot act how what we did was illegal 15 and we can't -- just because it hasn't been 16 approved we could base the county claim 17 board's approval on the municipal approval but 18 we can't say it's -- the application is 19 incomplete until it's been approved by the 20 municipality. That actually runs counter to 21 the law. 22 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: I have one 24 question. There's no impact on traffic and 25 drainage on all of them, all the ones we vote 70 - 70 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 on in Jersey City. There's no change of 2 variance on the building. They're not doing 3 any construction. There's no road opening 4 permits. I mean, do we even have to vote on 5 them to begin with? 6 MR. MARKS: Yes. It is the 7 development. It's something that they often 8 times need, road opening permits or permits to 9 get -- to have them offloaded or installed. 10 You do have the authority to basically 11 administratively, either through the site plan 12 committee or administratively through my 13 office, say okay, all telecommunications 14 applications could be approved so they don't 15 have to get visited here through a public 16 hearing. They could be listed maybe on the 17 agenda as -- you know, maybe a fourth category 18 of things that were administratively approved 19 so you don't have to go through the five, ten, 20 fifteen or twenty minutes of testimony 21 involving something which really has no or 22 little impact on the county. 23 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Right. 24 MR. MARKS: County traffic or county 25 drainage facilities. So it does need approval 71 - 71 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 by the county but you don't have to take up 2 the time every month. 3 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: You could 4 actually have an agenda with the -- their own 5 category that would be on the agenda. If you 6 have six in one night, you just approve the 7 six of them and that's it. 8 MR. MARKS: Sure. 9 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: You know? 10 MR. MARKS: If you want to -- I 11 mean, it's really up to the county and it's up 12 to the board, rather -- 13 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Because I 14 think we still have to vote on them. 15 MR. MARKS: Right. I would imagine 16 that you would. There's actually in the back 17 of the -- this is actually -- it's short but 18 it's actually pretty good, this legal opinion. 19 On the last page, upper left-hand corner, it's 20 paragraph 47-5.5. It's a delegation of power 21 to the county planning director by resolution 22 of the board administratively subdivisions and 23 site plans could be approved administratively 24 or by a designated committee of the members of 25 the county planning board who, either 72 - 72 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 administratively within my office or by the 2 site plan committee, but I think you'd still 3 have to go through the agenda items -- 4 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Formally, 5 yeah. 6 MR. MARKS: -- much like the exempt 7 applications -- 8 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: We would 10 have to have a consent agenda. 11 MR. MARKS: Exactly. 12 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: You think 13 recommend doing it that way? 14 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Yeah. 15 Chairlady, I recommend doing that. 16 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: 'Cause that's 17 what I think, too. 18 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Chairlady, I 19 recommend doing that. Over the years we do -- 20 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Right. 21 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: We should 22 look into it. Maybe have -- some of these 23 site plans we know that comes across us and 24 half of them don't even affect the county 25 road. You know? 73 - 73 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 MR. MARKS: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: And some 3 of these encounters that are being put up we 4 really have no jurisdiction over. I think we 5 should have a part of a consent agenda that, 6 you know, that's part of the agenda but it's 7 consensual and you just pass it. 8 MR. CALVANICO: Madam Chair, the 9 statute says it has to be -- you know, you can 10 designate it to the county planning director 11 and the committee. So my recommendation would 12 be to do it at the site planning -- 13 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: The site 14 plan. That's what I was going to say. And 15 then we'll just approve it. 16 MR. CALVANICO: -- want to do that. 17 And then we can put them on, like Steve says, 18 in a separate category on the regular board 19 agenda as recommended by the site plan 20 committee for approval. They do need to be 21 approved because we can't call them exempt 22 because they're not. 23 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Right. 24 MR. CALVANICO: Because they legally 25 fit within the criteria. So we have to come 74 - 74 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 up with a formal approval by the board as a 2 whole. 3 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Do we need to 4 vote on that to implement that new policy? 5 MR. CALVANICO: Yeah. We'd have to 6 do a formal resolution to do that which we can 7 prepare. 8 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Do we need to 9 do that at the next meeting or we can do that 10 right now? 11 MR. MARKS: I think you need 12 something written -- 13 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Thirty 14 days. 15 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Okay. 16 MR. MARKS: It would probably be an 17 amendment to the bylaws. 18 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: An amendment, 19 okay. Are all the commissioners in agreement 20 to move forward? 21 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Yes. I 22 would just make it as a blanket thing. There 23 might be one case that comes up -- these cell 24 things that we want a testimony. So -- 25 MR. MARKS: If you make it 75 - 75 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 permissive rather than -- 2 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: It's 3 something they have to vote on at the 4 committee, I guess. 5 MR. MARKS: -- mandatory, then the 6 site plan committee may make a recommendation 7 to how to approve it. 8 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: On a 9 consent agenda -- 10 MR. MARKS: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: -- you do 12 have the right -- each commissioner has a 13 right to question one of them. 14 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Well, we'll 15 review it at the site plan -- 16 MR. MARKS: Right. 17 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: -- meeting 18 and if the committee feels that it needs to 19 come before the board, then we'll do it. 20 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Right. 21 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Do I have a 22 motion? No, but no, that's for the next 23 month, right? Yeah. Okay. Mary, you're 24 confusing me. 25 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: No. I just 76 - 76 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 said we don't need a motion. 2 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: To adjourn. 3 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Right. Do we 4 have any other items? 5 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Yes. 6 This report brought to our attention tonight 7 by one of our inspectors that problems existed 8 in Hoboken on Bay Street and Jackson between 9 Monroe and Jackson. He's received this. He's 10 now seen this. There are no -- this is a 11 concern of the county and I'm from Hoboken -- 12 this is concern of the county a road that was 13 closed without permits. Am I right about 14 that? 15 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: And 17 without any notification from the city to 18 the -- Hudson County. Okay? And I'm just 19 wondering, is this -- this looks like a 20 project that's going on in the city. And I'm 21 just wondering if this thing is going all the 22 way up First Street. I don't know what the 23 specs are on this project. There's been no 24 communications. 25 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Well, I 77 - 77 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 could give you some information on that. I 2 spoke to Schroeder (phonetic) Palmer for the 3 engineers for the city and this project, I 4 think, is two blocks on First Street. 5 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Yeah. I 6 think she might be going through -- what was 7 it, maybe Harrison to this. 8 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Yeah. I 9 think it starts with Harrison. And we just 10 got the plans. They started the construction 11 before getting the permits from our office and 12 we sent our inspectors well out there and they 13 constructed the curb against the standards, 14 the DOT standards. So we're right now talking 15 to both the contractor and Schroeder Palmer 16 about it. But I don't believe this is a 17 planning board issue. It's more of an 18 engineering issue. The needed to get -- it's 19 a city project. It's funded through CDBG 20 funds. They got the city's approvals but they 21 just forgot to come to the county and get the 22 county's consent and permits. So that's being 23 worked on right now. 24 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Does he 25 have anything -- do you have anything to say 78 - 78 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 on that? 2 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Steve? 3 MR. MARKS: I'm sorry? 4 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Do you have 5 any comments on what was just handed out? 6 MR. CALVANICO: Well, it's not a 7 board issue but it's certainly that we became 8 aware of at this point. 9 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: In the past 10 we had issues where -- with a problem on 11 county roads where drainage or traffic was 12 involved and they built homes and never came 13 in front of this board. And they already 14 built the house. And we never did anything 15 about it. I think this board needs to look 16 into that for future reference. I don't know 17 what we can do but we need to find out if we 18 can do anything. 19 MR. CALVANICO: I started doing the 20 research into this, you know, what enforcement 21 authority the board has. And unfortunately, 22 the statute doesn't spell anything out as 23 being within that jurisdiction to enforce. I 24 think what we have to do is to do things 25 derivatively. In other words, we have to send 79 - 79 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 a letter to, say, the construction code 2 official in the town indicating that they're 3 in violation of their county planning board 4 resolution and that he has to issue a stop 5 work order or something. Something along 6 those lines. But, you know, we'll have to 7 talk about that, how we want to handle 8 those -- that's the right way to go. 9 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Is there 10 a stop work order on this now? 11 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Well, we 12 sent a letter. We don't have authority to 13 issue stop work orders, like the construction 14 officials do, but we sent there that they're 15 working without a permit and they're liable 16 for any damages and actions. 17 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: But they 18 have to get a permit, right? 19 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Yeah. 20 They're going to get a permit. They're going 21 to address the issues and this is going to get 22 resolved. I think Commissioner Holloway was 23 referring to some of these other private 24 people that do work on the county's right-of- 25 way without permits and they get away with it. 80 - 80 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Yeah, but 2 what's funny is, it's private people but now 3 it's the municipality doing the same thing. 4 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Yeah. This 5 is a municipal project, right. 6 COMMISSIONER NG: Because they're 7 used to the city funds for this. What they're 8 doing is -- see, they're not -- if it's not 9 with the engineer about it but the inspection 10 on this thing here -- 11 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: It's easier 12 dealing with the city because they do the job 13 right as well. But dealing with a private 14 owner, like we're having issues with FDP right 15 now, trying to get them to do what they were 16 supposed to do is very difficult. 17 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Seeing if 18 they could use a new sword edge with it. I 19 bet they're a hundred years old. 20 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Okay. Do I 21 have a motion to return the meeting? 22 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Motion. 23 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Second. 24 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: All those in 25 favor? 81 - 81 - HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD (10/18/06) 1 ALL: Aye. 2 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Thank you. 3 (Meeting was adjourned at 8:02 p.m.) 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 82 - 82 - 1 2 C E R T I F I C A T I O N 3 4 I, Mike Herman, Electronic Court Reporter and 5 Notary Public, do hereby certify that: 6 7 I was present during the entirety of the foregoing 8 proceedings, and that I caused to be recorded a 9 true, complete and verbatim recording of the 10 proceedings via digital means, in the matter of the: 11 HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD MONTHLY MEETING. 12 13 I further certify that I am not employed by nor 14 related to any party to this action. 15 16 In witness whereof, I hereby sign this date: 17 October 26, 2006. 18 19 _________________________________ 20 Mike Herman 21 22 23 24 25 83 - 83 - 1 C E R T I F I C A T I O N 2 3 I, Lisa Bar-Leib, hereby certify that the 4 foregoing is a true and correct transcription, to 5 the best of my ability, of the sound recorded 6 proceedings submitted for transcription in the 7 matter of the: 8 HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD MONTHLY MEETING. 9 10 I further certify that I am not employed by nor 11 related to any party to this action. 12 13 In witness whereof, I hereby sign this date: 14 October 26, 2006. 15 16 _________________________________ 17 Lisa Bar-Leib 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25