- 1 - 1 HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD 2 RE: ) 3 MONTHLY MEETING ) TRANSCRIPT OF ) PROCEEDINGS: 4 ) - - - - - - - - - - - - ) 5 Hudson County Administration Building, Freeholders Chambers 6 567 Pavonia Avenue, Third Floor Jersey City, New Jersey 7 Wednesday, January 17, 2007 6:30 p.m. 8 BEFORE: 9 DANIEL CHOFFO, Chairman 10 MICHAEL A. HOLLOWAY, Commissioner 11 RUSHABH MEHTA, Commissioner 12 MARY AVAGLIANO, Commissioner 13 RENEE BETTINGER, Commissioner 14 JUDE FITZGIBBONS, Commissioner 15 DOREEN DIDOMENICO, Commissioner 16 DEMETRIO ARENCIBIA, Commissioner 17 18 ALSO PRESENT: 19 THOMAS CALVANICO, ESQ., Board Attorney 20 STEPHEN MARKS, Board Secretary 21 22 Reported By: 23 Mike Herman 24 25 - 2 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Good evening. 3 I'd like to call to order the meeting of the 4 Hudson County Planning Board for January 17, 5 2007. Counselor, has this meeting been 6 properly advertised? 7 MR. CALVANICO: Yes, Madam 8 Chairlady. The meeting was properly 9 advertised in accordance with the New Jersey 10 Open Public Meetings Act and has been posted 11 on the bulletin board of the county clerk and 12 of the freeholders. 13 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Thank you. 14 Mr. Secretary, may I have a roll call? 15 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Arencibia? 16 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Here. 17 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 18 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Here. 19 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Choffo? 20 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Here. 21 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 22 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Here. 23 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Dublin? Is 24 not present. Commissioner Fitzgibbons? 25 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Here. - 3 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 3 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Here. 4 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Mehta? 5 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: Here. 6 MR. MARKS: Commissioner NG? Is not 7 present. Chairwoman Bettinger? 8 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Here. 9 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, we have a 10 quorum. 11 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Thank you. 12 Will everyone please rise to salute the flag? 13 (Pledge of Allegiance) 14 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: The next item 15 on the agenda is the board reorganization but 16 I believe we are going to swear in some 17 officers this evening -- 18 MR. MARKS: Yes. 19 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: -- first. 20 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: We can 21 just call up the clerk and we'll -- 22 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Will the 23 clerk of Hudson County please come up to swear 24 in commissioners? 25 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Oh, he's - 4 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 going to do it? 3 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: I believe it 4 will be Commissioner Holloway, Commissioner 5 Mehta, Commissioner Avagliano and Commissioner 6 Choffo. 7 (Commissioners duly sworn) 8 (Applause) 9 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: All righty. 10 Okay. The next item on the agenda this 11 evening is board reorganization and selection 12 of officers. I'd just like to thank everyone 13 for -- this board for giving me this 14 opportunity to serve as chairwoman this past 15 year and it's been an honor and privilege and 16 I'd like to open the floor for nominations for 17 chairperson. 18 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I make a 19 nomination that we nominate Daniel Chaffo. 20 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: I second it. 21 Nomination for vice-chair? 22 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: For chair. 23 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I make a 24 motion to close. 25 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Jude - 5 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 Fitzgibbons? 3 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: I'll second 4 the motion. 5 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, on a motion 6 to nominate Daniel Choffo as chairman of the 7 Hudson County Planning Board made by 8 Commissioner Fitzgibbons and seconded by 9 Commissioner Holloway, Commissioner Arencibia? 10 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 11 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 12 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 13 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Choffo? 14 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Aye. 15 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 16 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 17 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 18 Fitzgibbons? 19 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 20 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 21 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 22 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Mehta? 23 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: Aye. 24 MR. MARKS: Chairwoman Bettinger? 25 CHAIRWOMAN BETTINGER: Aye. - 6 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 MR. MARKS: Madam Chair, the motion 3 passed. 4 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I'll make 5 a nomination to close it. Do we close it? 6 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Yeah, you can 7 switch. 8 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: They open the 9 nomination and close the nomination because if 10 somebody -- 11 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I close the 12 nomination. 13 (Applause) 14 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: We closed 15 the nomination? All right. 16 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: At this time, do 17 we have any other nominations for vice chair? 18 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: I'd like to 19 make a nomination for Jude Fitzgibbons to be 20 vice chair. I made the motion for 21 Commissioner Jude Fitzgibbons to be vice 22 chair. 23 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: I seconded it. 24 First was Commissioner Holloway. 25 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a - 7 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 motion to select Jude Fitzgibbons as vice 3 chair of the Hudson County Planning Board made 4 by Commissioner Holloway and seconded by 5 Commissioner Mehta, Commissioner Arencibia? 6 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 7 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 8 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: (No audible 9 response) 10 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 11 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 12 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 13 Fitzgibbons? 14 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Abstain. 15 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 16 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 17 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Mehta? 18 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: Aye. 19 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 20 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Aye. 21 MR. MARKS: And Chairman Choffo? 22 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Aye. 23 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 24 passed. 25 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: We would like to - 8 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 open this up for any nominations for 3 secretary. 4 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: We got to 5 close the nomina -- did we close the 6 nominations? 7 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: We'll do it 8 before that. 9 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Motion to close 10 the nominations for vice chair and then we'll 11 have a vote on it. 12 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Make a 13 motion to close. 14 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: I second it. 15 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a 16 motion to close the nominations for vice 17 chairman made by Commissioner Fitzgibbons and 18 seconded by Commissioner Holloway, 19 Commissioner Arencibia? 20 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 21 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 22 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: (No audible 23 response) 24 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Choffo? 25 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Aye. - 9 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 MR. MARKS: I'm sorry, Chairman 3 Choffo. Commissioner DiDomenico? 4 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 5 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 6 Fitzgibbons? 7 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 8 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 9 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 10 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Mehta? 11 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: Aye. 12 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 13 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Aye. 14 MR. MARKS: And Chairman Choffo? 15 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Aye. Do we have 16 any nominations for secretary for the planning 17 board? 18 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Make a 19 nomination for Mary Avagliano -- Commissioner. 20 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I'll second 21 the motion. 22 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Any other 23 nominations or we just vote? 24 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I make a 25 motion to close. - 10 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I'll second 3 it. 4 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a 5 motion to close the nominations for secretary 6 made by Commissioner Fitzgibbons and seconded 7 by Commissioner Bettinger, Commissioner 8 Arencibia? 9 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 10 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 11 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 12 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 13 CHAIRMAN BETTINGER: Aye. 14 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 15 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 16 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 17 Fitzgibbons? 18 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 19 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 20 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 21 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Mehta? 22 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: Aye. 23 MR. MARKS: Chairman Choffo? 24 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Aye. 25 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion - 11 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 passed. 3 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: That was just for 4 vice-chair, right? Or did -- 5 ALL: No, that was for secretary. 6 MR. MARKS: Closing the nomination. 7 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Oh, okay. Now we 8 have to take a vote on to approve the 9 nomination. 10 MR. MARKS: Okay. So, Mr. Chairman, 11 on a motion to approve the nomination of 12 secretary of the Hudson County Planning 13 Board -- that vote was to close the 14 nomination. So this is to approve. Is there 15 a motion and a second? 16 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Make a 17 motion to approve. 18 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: I second it. 19 MR. MARKS: Okay. Mr. Chairman, on 20 a motion to approve Mary Avagliano for 21 secretary of the Hudson County Planning Board 22 made by Commissioner Holloway (sic) and 23 seconded by Commissioner Fitzgibbons (sic), 24 Commissioner Arencibia? 25 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. - 12 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 3 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. Close 4 the nomination? 5 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 6 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 7 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 8 CHAIRMAN BETTINGER: Aye. 9 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 10 Fitzgibbons? 11 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 12 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 13 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 14 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Mehta? 15 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: Aye. 16 MR. MARKS: Chairman Choffo? 17 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Aye. 18 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 19 passed. Okay. For the next regular part of 20 the agenda, adoption of the meeting minutes 21 from December 20th, 2006. 22 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Do I have a motion 23 to approve? 24 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Make a 25 motion to accept the minutes as read. - 13 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I'll second 3 that. 4 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a 5 motion to approve the minutes of December 6 20th, 2006 made by Commissioner Fitzgibbons, 7 seconded by Commissioner Bettinger, 8 Commissioner Arencibia? 9 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 10 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 11 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 12 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 13 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Abstain. 14 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 15 Fitzgibbons? 16 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 17 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 18 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 19 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Mehta? 20 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: Abstain. 21 MR. MARKS: And Chairman Choffo? 22 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I vote aye. 23 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 24 passed. 25 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Excuse me, Steve. - 14 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 Did you mention Commissioner Bettinger on 3 that? 4 MR. MARKS: I did, didn't I? 5 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: No. I just 6 seconded the motion. 7 MR. MARKS: I'm sorry. 8 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I vote aye. 9 MR. MARKS: My oversight. I 10 apologize. Commissioner Bettinger votes aye. 11 Mr. Chairman, we're now at Section 6A on the 12 agenda, memorialization of resolutions 13 approved at last meeting. The attorney for 14 Application SP-53-06, SKR Realty, 15 LLC/Candlewood Suites, located at 279 Secaucus 16 Road in Secaucus has requested that we put 17 this memorialized resolution at the end of the 18 agenda; we remove it from the list of 19 memorialized resolutions. He had some 20 particular concerns about the language of the 21 resolution and he would like to, without 22 taking time out at this part of the meeting, 23 he'd like to discuss it and perhaps if it's 24 okay with the board have it approved under Old 25 Business rather than have it contained within - 15 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 this portion of the meeting. 3 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Is that okay with 4 the board? 5 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Yes. 6 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Do I have a 7 motion? 8 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I make a 9 motion to adjourn to under Old Business. 10 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Second. 11 MR. MARKS: Okay. So this is a 12 motion to remove it from the list of 13 memorialized resolutions and consider it under 14 Old Business. The motion was made by 15 Commissioner Fitzgibbons and seconded by 16 Commissioner -- 17 COMMISSIONER AVALGLIANO: Avagliano. 18 MR. MARKS: Avagli -- 19 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: What's the 20 difference? 21 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: No, it's 22 DiDomenico. 23 MR. MARKS: DiDomenico? Okay, on a 24 motion to memorialize SP-53-06 at the end of 25 the agenda made by Commissioner Fitzgibbons, - 16 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 seconded by Commissioner DiDomenico, 3 Commissioner Arencibia? 4 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 5 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 6 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 7 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 8 CHAIRMAN BETTINGER: Aye. 9 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 10 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 11 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 12 Fitzgibbons? 13 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 14 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 15 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 16 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Mehta? 17 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: Aye. 18 MR. MARKS: And Chairman Choffo? 19 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I vote aye. 20 MR. MARKS: Now, Mr. Chairman, to 21 memorialize the rest of the resolutions which 22 were approved at the last meeting. Is there a 23 motion to approve the rest of the -- 24 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I make a 25 motion to approve the memorialization of - 17 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 the -- 3 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I'm sorry, Steve. 4 Usually you read them off. That's what I was 5 waiting for. 6 MR. MARKS: Oh, I'm sorry. 7 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: If you don't 8 mind -- 9 MR. MARKS: Sure. 10 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Only so we know 11 exactly what we're reading into the record. 12 MR. MARKS: I'll read them into the 13 record. I apologize. Mr. Chairman, to 14 memorialize the resolutions approved at last 15 meeting, MSMP-01, Municipal Stormwater 16 Management Plan, by the Town of Kearny, 17 Application SP-53-06 -- oh, I'm sorry, that 18 was just removed. Application SP-81-06, K. 19 Hovnanian at Port Imperial Urban Renewal VIII, 20 LLC, located at Block 168.01, Lot 7.11 in West 21 New York; Application SP-94-06, 290 Mountain 22 Road Developers, LLC, located at 290 Mountain 23 Road in Union City; Application SP-95-06, 24 Freedom Cove, LLC, located at 84 Hackensack 25 Plank Road in Weehawken; Application SP-98-06, - 18 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 Sprint Spectrum, LP, located at 431-437 3 Kennedy Boulevard in Bayonne; Application SD- 4 99-06, Harry Persaud, applicant, located at 5 200-212 Old Bergen Road in Jersey City, New 6 Jersey; and Application SP/SD-106-06, 214 7 Hancock Properties, Inc., located at 3721 8 Bergen Turnpike in North Bergen. 9 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Do I have a motion 10 to memorialize the resolutions approved at the 11 last meeting? 12 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Make a 13 motion to approve the memorializations of the 14 resolutions approved at last meeting. 15 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I'll second 16 that. 17 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a 18 motion made by Commissioner Fitzgibbons and 19 seconded by Commissioner Bettinger, 20 Commissioner Arencibia? 21 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 22 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 23 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 24 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 25 CHAIRMAN BETTINGER: Aye. - 19 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 3 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 4 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 5 Fitzgibbons? 6 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 7 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 8 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 9 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Mehta? 10 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: Aye. 11 MR. MARKS: Chairman Choffo? 12 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Aye. 13 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 14 passed. Mr. Chairman, the next part of the 15 agenda is under 6B, applications declared to 16 be exempt. SD -- the first application is SD- 17 109-06, Nams Developers, Inc., located at 763- 18 765 Ocean Avenue in Jersey City, New Jersey 19 and the second application to be declared 20 exempt is SD-110-06, Nams Developers, Inc., 21 located 26-28 Clinton Avenue in Jersey City, 22 New Jersey. 23 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Would any 24 commissioner like to make a motion? 25 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I'll make a - 20 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 motion. 3 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: I second. 4 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a 5 motion made by Commissioner Bettinger, 6 seconded by Commissioner Mehta, Commissioner 7 Arencibia? 8 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 9 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 10 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 11 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 12 CHAIRMAN BETTINGER: Aye. 13 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 14 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 15 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 16 Fitzgibbons? 17 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 18 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 19 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 20 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Mehta? 21 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: Aye. 22 MR. MARKS: Chairman Choffo? 23 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Aye. 24 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 25 passed. Mr. Chairman, Section 6C of the - 21 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 agenda tonight, the application to be 3 considered is the Municipal Stormwater 4 Management Plan, MSMP-02, for the Town of 5 Harrison. 6 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: You may proceed. 7 MR. WYNN: Yes, Mr. Chairman. My 8 name is Kevin Wynn. I'm with Hatch Mott 9 MacDonald and we're here to represent the 10 Township of Harrison in regards to the letter 11 we received from Stephen Marks dated January 12 5th, 2007. 13 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Did you ever come 14 before this board? 15 MR. WYNN: No, I have not. 16 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Do you mind just 17 being sworn in by Mr. Calvanico. 18 MR. CALVANICO: Please state your 19 name and spell your last name and state your 20 affiliation for us, please. 21 MR. WYNN: My name is Kevin Wynn. 22 My last name is spelled W-Y-N-N. I'm a senior 23 project manager with the engineering firm of 24 Hatch Mott MacDonald. 25 MR. CALVANICO: And they're located - 22 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 where? 3 MR. WYNN: 27 Bleeker Street in 4 Millburn, New Jersey. 5 K E V I N W Y N N, having been first duly 6 sworn according to law, testified as follows: 7 MR. CALVANICO: The witness has been 8 sworn. 9 MR. WYNN: In reference to the 10 letter dated January 5th, 2007, we're here to 11 say that we'll comply with all of the comments 12 listed in the letter and we'll provide a 13 revised Stormwater Management Plan within the 14 next two weeks to the board based on these 15 comments. 16 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: All right. You'll 17 provide it to Mr. Marks' office? 18 MR. WYNN: Yes. 19 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, just to 20 put this in perspective, the state of New 21 Jersey Department of Environmental Protection 22 as part of follow up to the Clean Water Act 23 came out with regulations administrative code, 24 it was 7:8, which required all counties and 25 municipalities within the state of New Jersey - 23 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 to draft and adopt municipal -- or to adopt 3 stormwater pollution prevention plans. So, 4 this -- as part of those regulations in 5 municipalities are categorized into two tiers, 6 Tier 1 and Tier 2. Most of the municipalities 7 within Hudson County -- or all the 8 municipalities within Hudson County, I 9 believe, fall into Tier 1, I think it is. 10 MR. WYNN: Yes. 11 MR. MARKS: And as part of that 12 regulatory process, the municipalities furnish 13 adopted stormwater management plans to the 14 county planning board essentially to file them 15 with the county planning board. We are then 16 audited by the DEP, the state Department of 17 Environmental Protection, to make sure that 18 we're doing our job. And it's easier for the 19 DEP to visit twenty-one county planning 20 departments and planning boards rather than 21 566 municipalities and another twenty-one 22 counties on top. So, essentially we are a 23 repository for the municipal stormwater 24 information. 25 The county does have a contract with - 24 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 T&M Associates to prepare our stormwater 3 pollution prevention plans as well as to look 4 at the municipal stormwater plans and provide 5 comments. And we have Rose Santos from the 6 firm of T&M who is available to provide 7 comment and testimony if it's deemed 8 appropriate by the board. 9 MS. SANTOS: Evening. Again, my 10 name is Rose Santos with T&M Associates. 11 We've been working with Steve Marks and his 12 department is assisting with the review of the 13 municipal stormwater management plans and 14 stormwater control ordinance. Upon receipt of 15 the documents from the Township of -- or the 16 town of Harrison, we conducted a review based 17 on the New Jersey DEP's municipal stormwater 18 management plan checklist. Based on that, we 19 forwarded a list of minor comments that we 20 noted during our review and based on the 21 testimony that has been provided tonight, it 22 appears that those will be addressed. 23 Therefore, we recommend that the town be given 24 conditional approval at which time that would 25 allow them 180 days to address the comments - 25 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 and then they would have resubmit revised 3 documents for our review and then approval. 4 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, just to 5 follow up on one comment also. We asked -- 6 the county, approximately ten years ago when 7 it downsized portions of the county 8 administration, had signed into local 9 agreements with all twelve municipalities to 10 take over certain functions along county 11 roads. So as part of the conditional 12 approval, we're recommending that the -- and 13 requesting that the municipalities furnish the 14 street sweeping records and other such 15 documents which date back to our inter-local 16 agreements between the county and 17 municipalities with regard to county road. 18 It's an information item that the DEP looks 19 for in order to approve our county plan and 20 also the municipal plan. So when the 21 inspectors and enforcement agents from the 22 Department of Environmental Protection come 23 out and visit my office, we have to show that 24 we have records. So I would just ask for the 25 record that the municipal officials from the - 26 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 town of Harrison agree to comply with 3 providing those records. 4 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Can I 5 ask? Steve, do you mean to tell me do you 6 want ten years of records of sweep -- 7 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the 8 stormwater regulations went into effect -- I 9 think the effective date -- 10 MS. SANTOS: Yeah, the effective 11 date was 2004. The requirement or the date 12 for the requirement for providing those 13 records was April 1st, 2005. So from that 14 date forward then the county has to have these 15 records available. 16 MR. MARKS: So, Mr. Chairman, it's 17 not ten years of records. It's a little less 18 than two years worth of records. 19 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Any other 20 commissioners have a question? Was that one 21 of the conditions in the T&M letter that was 22 reviewed or this is a different one? 23 MS. SANTOS: No. That's an 24 additional recommendation. 25 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Okay. The - 27 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 recommendation, Ms. Santos, was your letter of 3 November 29th, right? 4 MS. SANTOS: Correct. 5 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: There's no 6 other -- 7 MS. SANTOS: We provided a letter to 8 the planning board November 29th and I believe 9 Mr. Marks forwarded a letter to the town. I 10 don't know if that recommendation was provided 11 within that letter. 12 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Okay. 13 MR. WYNN: Yes, it was. It was -- 14 yeah. 15 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Any other 16 conditions? Any other comments other than 17 your letter? 18 MS. SANTOS: No. The only comments 19 we had noted were the ones on the November 20 29th letter. 21 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: So you 23 want us to approve this pending -- 24 MS. SANTOS: Issue a conditional 25 approval. - 28 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 MR. WYNN: Subject to this. 3 MS. SANTOS: Subject to. 4 MR. CALVANICO: Mr. Chairman, I'd 5 like -- just so that the record is clear. Mr. 6 Wynn has indicated on behalf of the town that 7 they will comply with all the conditions in 8 the letter dated January 5th from Steven 9 Marks. In Mr. Marks' letter he references the 10 letter from T&M. So I just want it to be 11 clear that the town has agreed to comply not 12 only with Mr. Mark's letter but the other 13 conditions in the T&M letter. 14 MR. WYNN: Yes. 15 MR. CALVANICO: Thank you. 16 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Very clear, Mr. 17 Calvanico. Any other questions? Would anyone 18 like to make a motion? 19 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I'll make a 20 motion. 21 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Second. 22 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a 23 motion to conditionally approve MSMP-02 made 24 by Commissioner Bettinger, seconded by 25 Commissioner Avagliano, Commissioner - 29 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 Arencibia? 3 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 4 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 5 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 6 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 7 CHAIRMAN BETTINGER: Aye. 8 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 9 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 10 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 11 Fitzgibbons? 12 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 13 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 14 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 15 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Mehta? 16 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: Aye. 17 MR. MARKS: And Chairman Choffo? 18 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I vote aye. 19 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 20 passed. 21 MR. WYNN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 22 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the next 23 item on the agenda is Application -- for 24 public hearing is Application SP-69-06, Church 25 Hill Road, LLC, located at Church Hill Road in - 30 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 the Township of North Bergen. 3 MS. BERKENWALD: Elaine Berkenwald 4 from the Law Offices of Dennis J. Oury for the 5 applicant. I have one witness, Calisto 6 Burton, the engineer. He's testified before 7 this board before and I ask that you find him 8 qualified. He's already been qualified before 9 this board. 10 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: How many times 11 have you been in front of us? 12 MR. BURTON: Every other moment. I 13 would have been here last month but they had a 14 Christmas party. 15 C A L I S T O B U R T O N, having been first 16 duly sworn according to law, testified as 17 follows: 18 MR. BURTON: We actually were here 19 once before on this application which was 20 approved. This is on Church Hill Road. 21 Church Hill Road is located on the north end 22 of North Bergen off of River Road. It's on 23 the Cliff side or the Palisades side of River 24 Road. And what I have here is an exhibit. 25 It's called a landscape rendering. - 31 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I'm sorry, 3 Calisto. Was that given to Mr. Marks? 4 MR. BURTON: No. You have sets of 5 plans for -- these are exhibits and I'll leave 6 them but we have to mark them. 7 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Can you mark 8 them -- 9 MR. BURTON: Yes. 10 CHIARMAN CHOFFO: -- if you don't 11 mind. 12 (Colored version of site plan was hereby 13 marked as Applicant's Exhibit A1 for 14 identification, as of this date.) 15 MR. BURTON: So what I've marked as 16 Exhibit A1 is a colored version of the site 17 plan. Shown -- I'll get to River Road in a 18 second but shown -- well, the bottom of the 19 page -- off the page is River Road and then 20 what's shown in grey here is Church Hill Road 21 and then there's two buildings or two sets of 22 buildings. When this project was first 23 approved, we had thirty-nine townhouses 24 approved. First, a set of fifteen and then 25 another cluster of twenty-four townhouses. In - 32 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 working with the hill -- 'cause remember, 3 we're at the base of the Palisades here and if 4 anyone has driven by here you'd see we've 5 excavated thousands of yards of material all 6 at the base of the Palisades. And we found 7 that the prior project could not be built 8 because of the location of the rock. So we 9 came back and revised it in a different 10 project -- the Palisades was one of the 11 issues. Also, salability of the units was a 12 question. 13 So we kept townhouses on the 14 northern end of Church Hill Road; there's nine 15 townhouses. And then we have a multi-story 16 building that's going to contain fifty-four 17 units, one and two bedrooms, there are a 18 couple of three bedrooms. And there will be a 19 parking garage underneath that building. So 20 we went from thirty-nine three-bedroom 21 townhouses to this nine townhouses and fifty- 22 four units. Bedroom wise actually there's 23 fewer bedrooms here but it's more units. 24 If you recall, part of this 25 application was improvements to Church Hill - 33 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 Road. This road is less than twenty feet wide 3 and in some places it's only sixteen feet 4 wide. The pavement's in bad shape; it's a 5 difficult road. The garbage trucks either 6 drive up and back down or they back up and 7 drive down. There's no place to turn around. 8 So -- and how the county gets involved is we 9 plan on widening Church Hill Road from River 10 Road all the way to the end of the project. 11 We have worked with the neighbors at 12 the bottom of Church Hill Road next to River 13 Road to acquire easements so that we can do 14 these improvements. So we're going to get an 15 easement from the property on the south side 16 and one on the north side to widen the road. 17 Also, the -- our client is giving up property 18 to widen the road. 19 We're also putting parking spaces. 20 We have thirteen on street parking spaces, 21 parallel parking spaces on one side of the 22 road. 23 (Aerial rendering of the site plan was hereby 24 marked as Applicant's Exhibit A2 for 25 identification, as of this date.) - 34 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 Now, with the prior approval -- I'm 3 going to switch now to what we're going to 4 call Exhibit A2 which is an aerial rendering. 5 This is an aerial photograph we got from 6 Google and we've superimposed the project on 7 it. So now you've got a better idea. River 8 Road is shown in the middle of the page going 9 up and down and then Church Hill Road comes 10 off of it on the west side. The light tan 11 building is the fifty-four unit structure and 12 then we have the townhouses in brown. 13 So, you can see on River Road we 14 have two lanes in each direction and the 15 center median in this case is striped solid 16 'cause there aren't that many businesses to 17 make less around here. As -- further south we 18 have the center dual left turn lane. We 19 propose to create a left turn lane on the 20 south side of Church Hill Road so cars can 21 make a left in. So we create a storage lane 22 so they can make a left in. 23 Also what we did, because of the 24 volume of traffic, we created a -- what we're 25 going to call a storage lane to make a left - 35 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 turn out of Church Hill Road. So it's what we 3 call two-stage left turn. You make a left 4 turn into the median which will be striped for 5 this and then continue north. That's how I 6 drive out of there now. 7 There is a traffic light -- we're 8 right on a -- actually Bergen County border is 9 in the center River Road here. But we're in 10 Edgewater --at the top of the page there's a 11 traffic light there and then the next traffic 12 light south of us, that's Hillside Avenue, 13 which is about eight inches below the page. 14 Those traffic lights create gaps but to ensure 15 that people can get out of the road -- I mean, 16 get out of Church Hill Road onto River Road 17 and head north, they would use that lane, that 18 center lane, to make the maneuver. 19 Also, we are widening Church Hill 20 Road at the base by River Road. We are going 21 to be replacing the curbs and the radiuses on 22 both sides of the street. We're going to put 23 in new drainage. There's no drainage system 24 in Church Hill Road. We'll put drainage -- a 25 system that brings it down the road and - 36 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 collects it to -- and we're going to upgrade 3 the drainage system going into the street. 4 We're going to -- it needs a larger pipe. 5 So, that whole intersection will be 6 brought much better than -- brought up to 7 standards much better than this. But a 8 question was raised and it's because there was 9 actually a typo in our traffic report that 10 said the site visibility to the south is only 11 three hundred feet and we need by AASHTO 12 standards 390 feet. And really, what we 13 normally say if the sight distance is great 14 that it's 500 feet or greater and I think the 15 5 became a 3. So I have a collection of 16 photographs that I'll pass out that we'll call 17 Exhibit A3. It's four photographs, two sight 18 line and two aerial photographs. 19 (Four photographs were hereby marked as 20 Applicant's Exhibit A3 for identification, as 21 of this date.) 22 MR. BURTON: And I just want to show 23 you, you can see on Exhibit A2 that we have 24 quite a bit of visibility to the north all the 25 way from Church Hill Road all the way to the - 37 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 next traffic light in Edgewater. We also have 3 similar sight distance to the south. The 4 first picture is just from fifteen feet behind 5 the curb looking north and you could see that 6 a person at that intersection can see all the 7 way to the traffic light. The next is an 8 aerial photograph that shows -- well, here 9 we've shown a line that's 600 feet long. 10 That's the site visibility to the north. The 11 third picture is from Church Hill Road looking 12 south and you could see, it's quite a distance 13 south. That happens to -- what you can see 14 there's several utility poles. The fifth 15 utility pole is, like, 490 feet away. And 16 what we've done is we've shown another aerial 17 photograph after that with 500 feet of sight 18 distance and we haven't reached the traffic 19 light but you can see there's more sight 20 distance than that. 21 So because of the traffic -- this is 22 a busy road, it's important that we have 23 adequate sight distance so that we could 24 even -- so that we could make the turns in and 25 out. That's the extent of our application and - 38 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 what we propose to do to make improvements. 3 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I think we have a 4 few things -- a few questions and concerns. 5 I'd like to start, I guess, with our 6 engineers? 7 MR. BURTON: Yes. 8 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Is it T&M? 9 MR. BURTON: Yes. 10 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Are you ready, Lee 11 or I -- 12 MR. KLEIN: Sure, I'm ready. Good 13 evening. Lee Klein with T&M Associates. 14 You're referring to my comment letter of 15 September 1st, 2006 and also revised December 16 6th, 2006. For the most part, the comments 17 have been addressed and correspondence back 18 and forth from the applicant. Comment number 19 1.5 was sort of partially addressed. That 20 comment refers to the proposed lien on Church 21 Hill Road, the approach to the intersection of 22 River Road will be a right turn only. But 23 apparently they're going to have a left turn 24 out and a right turn out. They've indicated 25 that a wall has been removed or will be - 39 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 removed. I just need the applicant to clarify 3 the sight distance and the wall whether it's 4 there or it's going to be removed. 5 MR. BURTON: Yes. On the survey 6 that we presented shows some stone walls. 7 Those walls are being removed. As a matter of 8 fact, construction activity is occurring on 9 the property next door. Everything will be 10 cleared. 11 MR. KLEIN: So in these pictures, 12 Figure 2-1, the wall is gone? Or the wall is 13 not even in the picture? 14 MR. BURTON: No, no. The wall's not 15 here. These walls are low walls. They're 16 stone walls. You can see over them but the -- 17 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: When you 18 say low, do you know the height? 19 MR. BURTON: Three feet. Three 20 feet. And I can't remember -- I didn't look 21 last time I've been there. If the wall hasn't 22 been gone, it will be gone because it's in the 23 roadbed and we have to -- we're going to clear 24 it all out. 25 MR. KLEIN: The roadbed of Church - 40 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 Hill Road? 3 MR. BURTON: Right. When we widen 4 it. So that retaining wall will be removed. 5 MR. KLEIN: We had a couple of 6 miscellaneous comments on striping and a pipe 7 installation on River Road, I believe. The 8 applicant needs to provide information on how 9 they're going to take care of traffic control. 10 I believe there's some work you're going to be 11 doing in River Road? 12 MR. BURTON: Yes. We have to 13 provide you a traffic control plan -- 14 MR. KLEIN: Okay. 15 MR. BURTON: -- and we'll do that. 16 MR. KLEIN: And also just another 17 comment that wasn't fully addressed -- or it 18 wasn't addressed. The applicant should 19 provide copies of all permits and any 20 municipal approvals to the county. 21 MR. BURTON: Yes. We have all our 22 other approvals and we'll provide them. 23 MR. KLEIN: And just a clarification 24 then, the photographs that you passed around, 25 your Figure 1-1 is a view that you said - 41 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 fifteen feet back from what point? 3 MR. BURTON: Oh, from the curb line. 4 MR. KLEIN: Curb extension line? 5 Okay. And then same with Figure 2-1? 6 MR. BURTON: Correct. 7 MR. KLEIN: Fifteen feet back from 8 the curb extension? Okay. That's all. 9 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I'd like to ask if 10 our inspector, Mr. Tridente, has any comments 11 at this time. Demetrio? 12 MR. TRIDENTE: Commissioner 13 Arencibia, is this the one that we have the 14 water problem? 15 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Yeah, but 16 before we get to that, the turning movements 17 from the Church Hill data, was it -- I seemed 18 to see in the T&M letter there was going to be 19 proposed this right turn only. And can you 20 clarify that whether you're going to be able 21 to make left turns out of Church Hill? 22 MR. BURTON: Yes. The proposal is 23 to maintain left turns in and out. 24 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Okay. And 25 you've done a gap study to -- - 42 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 MR. BURTON: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: And there's 4 enough gaps to allow for a left turn? 5 MR. BURTON: Yes, yes. 6 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Have you 7 started construction -- has Apkin started 8 construction based on the earlier approval? 9 MR. BURTON: Yes. Actually, 10 construction started over a year ago on this 11 site. And you brought your inspector -- I'll 12 hear what he has to say but they had some 13 problems controlling runoff and controlling 14 erosion. So that's been taken care of. 15 Actually, most of the dirt is gone. But -- 16 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: It's still 17 a problem. 'Cause I had an e-mail today from 18 a neighbor around there of the water problem 19 and she wanted me to take a look at it. It's 20 a serious problem because right now we got 21 very cold weather and the icing conditions 22 that an accident can result from there. So 23 your owner is going to be liable for any 24 accidents. But that's coming -- that's just 25 south of Church Hill Road. So it looks like - 43 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 it's been going on like this for a while. In 3 fact, your photo has also -- I don't know when 4 these pictures were taken but there's, like, a 5 puddle of water -- 6 MR. BURTON: Right there. 7 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: So this is 8 a serious matter that needs to be taken care 9 of. 10 MR. BURTON: One of the things 11 that -- there's a -- I just -- about River 12 Road. When River Road was improved it was 13 super elevated or banked so the road was 14 actually raised about eight or nine inches at 15 Church Hill Road. And if you see in the first 16 picture the sidewalks slope back and so forth, 17 we're going to pick all that up and we're 18 going to pick River Road up -- I mean, Church 19 Hill Road up to match. That's just an aside. 20 That's a different issue. I wanted to make 21 sure that was clear. 22 Sewer Conservation has been out 23 there on several occasions to try to work with 24 the contractor. We finally got a system that 25 I was under the impression was working where - 44 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 we put a detention pond at the bottom of the 3 hill and then ran pipes to the storm drainage 4 system. But, hey, go out there and talk to 5 the guy. 6 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: So, is the 7 owner here? 8 MR. BURTON: No. 9 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: But he's 10 going to be held liable for all the damages 11 resulting from this and he needs to take 12 action tomorrow to start taking care of this 13 water problem and soil erosion problem. So I 14 need to hear from the applicant, the owner, if 15 he is willing to take care of that problem. 16 MR. BURTON: Well, Elayne's his 17 attorney and she can -- 18 MS. BERKENWALD: I'm not familiar 19 with the fact that all the runoff might be due 20 to this project but the owner will certainly 21 take care of the runoff that's coming from 22 this particularly construction. I don't 23 believe that all the problems on Churchill 24 Road are just due to this. There's a lot of 25 unusual older construction -- - 45 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 MR. BURTON: How about we do this? 3 If -- and I guess your inspector's going to 4 talk. Do you want to have a meeting? Let's 5 get out there and you have the power to shut 6 the job down. I'm just the engineer and I 7 can't force the guy to do stuff but we'll set 8 up an appointment and we'll go out there. 9 He's got a full-time construction manager. 10 You know? They got all these -- paying all 11 this money for these guys to run the project. 12 We'll make him do it. 13 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: We can go 14 out there but I need to know if the owner is 15 going to take care of the problem because 16 apparently this has been going on for months 17 and soil erosion is out there because the soil 18 is running onto the road also. So I was 19 surprised to hear -- to see this complaint 20 today from the neighbor there and to see the 21 pictures. 22 MR. BURTON: Yeah. It had ice on 23 it. Was that from last night? 24 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: That was 25 this morning. - 46 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 MR. BURTON: That was this morning? 3 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Yeah. It's 4 not a good thing. No. So the water needs to 5 be controlled, has to be channeled into a 6 sewer, you know, soil erosion has to be 7 controlled. 8 MR. BURTON: Right. I will notify 9 him. I'll copy you and I'll give him -- you 10 going to bring your inspector up? 11 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: We can set 12 up a meeting to go over this. 13 MR. BURTON: I don't know if your 14 inspector has -- is he going to address this? 15 Why don't we let him do that now? 16 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Mario? 17 MR. TRIDENTE: Mario Tridente, 18 Hudson County Improvement Authority, acting 19 inspector. I have a problem with the sight 20 distance going to the north and to the south. 21 You're stating that you took your photographs 22 at fifteen feet. If you turn this photograph 23 over, the scale was one -- one inch equals 24 twenty feet. If you measured one inch back 25 here there was no way that you could take this - 47 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 picture at fifteen feet. 3 MR. BURTON: Now, there is 4 construction -- there's actually plywood up 5 right now. 6 MR. TRIDENTE Right. 7 MR. BURTON: Yes. 8 MR. TRIDENTE: And did you enter 9 into agreement with the owner of this property 10 to remove that or -- 11 MR. BURTON: I actually -- I -- 12 well, we'll do that if that's the issue. 13 We'll have them remove -- pull the plywood 14 back. 15 MR. TRIDENTE: And also to the north 16 at fifteen feet, I had to take this photograph 17 with my nose in the intersection. That's 18 sitting in the vehicle looking to the north, 19 the nose of my vehicle was just about in the 20 intersection putting this. So your statement 21 of fifteen feet is incorrect. 22 MR. BURTON: It's basically the 23 same. 24 MR. TRIDENTE: He's knows my truck. 25 My nose of my truck is parallel in front of - 48 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 his car. That's not fifteen feet. Fifteen 3 feet puts me back up here. 4 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Okay. The 5 only thing is -- right, it's hard to tell but 6 that's what it is. If it's a problem of 7 coming back from the other guy's property, 8 we're working on that right now to -- 9 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Gentlemen, I'm 10 sorry. We're going to need this -- so we can 11 all be on the record. 12 MR. BURTON: Decide -- okay. What 13 we can do -- this photograph here and this one 14 here both showing the limited sight distance. 15 Right now on the bottom of the site, on the 16 south side there's now construction -- plywood 17 around the site because there's equipment 18 stored here. That does limit the sight 19 distance. That will be coming down -- if we 20 have to take it down now, I'll -- between the 21 two property owners we can get that moved. So 22 that's a short term situation that we can 23 correct. On the north side, the property is a 24 used car lot. And there's a chain link fence 25 that runs right along the right-of-way line - 49 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 and comes back -- well, both right-of-way 3 lines, River Road and Churchill Road. We are 4 working with that property owner and if it's a 5 matter of -- we will approach him about trying 6 to pull that fence back a little bit to help 7 improve sight visibility because you do have 8 to peer out just a little bit beyond the fence 9 to see north. He parks cars there. We can do 10 what we can. 11 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Up for other 12 comments? 13 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: You were 14 talking about drainage -- 15 MR. TRIDENTE: Oh, no. That was one 16 of the issues. We were probably there on a 17 dry day so I didn't see it. 18 MR. BURTON: Okay. I'm sorry. 19 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Calisto, you did 20 mention that you're proposing widening the 21 street? 22 MR. BURTON: Yes. Actually, Church 23 Hill Road will be widened about four feet, 24 maybe a little more. Four feet to the south. 25 So a car approaching the intersection will be - 50 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 a little bit further away from that fence. 3 That actually helps with -- 4 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: The easements that 5 you have in place, are they for residential 6 owners or for commercial owners? 7 MR. BURTON: Well, the property on 8 the south side is a vacant lot so that will be 9 a multi-story residential building. That's 10 what's proposed there. It hasn't -- the 11 application will be going to North Bergen 12 soon. And the property on the north side is a 13 car lot. We had to take a little bit of land 14 from him to make a radius for Church Hill 15 Road. His property actually comes way out 16 into the road and we'll work with him on the 17 corner. Actually, we're widening his property 18 because in order to make these improvements to 19 Church Hill Road, we have to put a retaining 20 wall up along several hundred feet in there 21 and so that helps him gain a few feet in the 22 back of his property. 23 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: I'm sorry, 24 Mr. Chairman. Do you require the easements 25 from them -- the property owners for the - 51 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 widening? 3 MS. BERKENWALD: We're working on 4 that. We have basically a handshake agreement 5 and we're drafting easements now. We're in 6 the process of doing that. There have been 7 agreements between the property owners. 8 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: But there 9 is no agreement, let's say? 10 MR. BURTON: Well, there's no 11 written agreement. They have been working 12 together. The applicant has been using the 13 other property owner's property. They have 14 been in communication. I'm the engineer on 15 both projects so I'm making sure everybody 16 knows what's going on. We're formal -- Dennis 17 Oury's office is formalizing those agreements 18 now. I don't know why they weren't done. The 19 easements were written some time ago. Those 20 easements actually -- these will be 21 dedications to North Bergen, all of them. 22 MS. BERKENWALD: The road isn't 23 perfect but we're improving it. 24 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I'm sorry. Even 25 the proposal with the fence is just a proposal - 52 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 for that used car lot owner? It's nothing -- 3 MR. BURTON: Right. The fence we -- 4 actually, we were working with him and hoping 5 to clean that up. One of the problems now, if 6 you were to drive down this River Road, except 7 for now that that blue plywood is there, you 8 wouldn't even know the road was there. So we 9 were -- one of our goals was to clean it up 10 and widen it so that people could see Church 11 Hill Road. And that fence there -- we'll try 12 to move it. 13 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Commissioner 14 Arencibia, I have one other question before -- 15 are you okay with this left turn only coming 16 out of there? I know that's something -- 17 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Well, the 18 gaps -- if there's sufficient gaps that's 19 fine. The sight distance is still an issue. 20 If this new building you're talking about on 21 the corner -- the southwest corner there -- 22 you're taking down the fence and the wall to 23 improve the sight distance there. If some 24 building comes up -- 25 MR. BURTON: Well, the building - 53 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 won't be in the sight distance. There's a 3 setback from the right-of-way line. It is set 4 back. The building's already been designed. 5 The access for that building -- we're talking 6 about the property that is south of Church 7 Hill Road. We'll be off of Church Hill Road. 8 There will be no access on River Road so this 9 has been planned. 10 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: And you're 11 the engineer for that? 12 MR. BURTON: I'm the engineer for 13 that. I actually laid out the building and 14 gave it to the architect because we had to 15 work the two sites together. 16 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Right. 17 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Go ahead, Lee. 18 MR. KLEIN: One more 19 clarification -- a question. Mr. Burton, the 20 Church Hill Road is going to be improved? And 21 what's the geometry of Church Hill Road going 22 to be? 23 MR. BURTON: The width at the bottom 24 is twenty-four feet. 25 MR. KLEIN: So it will be a shared - 54 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 left and right lane exiting -- 3 MR. BURTON: Yes. 4 MR. KLEIN: -- onto River Road? 5 Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I got a 7 question. You had mentioned about the 8 retaining wall, removing them? 9 MR. BURTON: There are stone walls 10 on either side of Church Hill Road. The stone 11 wall that exists near River Road isn't even 12 needed anymore because of the work that's been 13 done there. So it will be -- it will be 14 removed. And there's other walls on the -- 15 I'm going to say the west side of Church Hill 16 Road after you make the bend that will all be 17 coming down. Well, actually, there's walls on 18 both sides. All the stone walls will be 19 removed. 'Cause there -- the right-of-way is 20 only twenty-five feet. So to put the walls 21 and parking and curbs and sidewalks, there's 22 not enough room. So that's why we're taking 23 eight feet along all the properties on the far 24 side or the west side of -- 25 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: What was - 55 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 originally there? 3 MR. BURTON: What was there? Well, 4 the first portion -- well, actually, 5 everything's vacant now but where the multi- 6 story building is, it has always been vacant. 7 But where the townhouses are, that used to be 8 a church in the 1800s. That's why it's Church 9 Hill Road. Huguenots or some church like 10 that. One of the early settlers -- the 11 foundations and all -- everything for that 12 church were here. And one other thing, in the 13 middle was a house that was demolished. There 14 was a house and a church in this property? 15 MS. BERKENWALD: And it is in North 16 Bergen, the Edgewater on there. It is North 17 Bergen. 18 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Mr. 19 Chairman, I have a question. Was this 20 approved by the Township of North Bergen? 21 MS. BERKENWALD: Yes. And it was 22 approved by this board for thirty-nine 23 townhouses and when they started looking at 24 the site work involved they realized that a 25 less intrusion apartment building with less of - 56 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 a footprint would make a lot more sense. And 3 they got an amended approval in North Bergen 4 for this combination of nine townhouses and an 5 apartment building. And we were approved 6 here, too, but we're here for the amended 7 approval for these changes that have been 8 approved by North Bergen. 9 MR. BURTON: Yeah. The changes 10 we're proposing on River Road are the same 11 changes we proposed last time just that, I 12 guess, the second time around, we got a little 13 bit more scrutiny into the review process. 14 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Mr. 15 Chairman, when was this approved, do you know? 16 MR. BURTON: Probably two years ago. 17 MS. BERKENWALD: I think in '04. I 18 was here with Mr. Burton. 19 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: I don't 20 remember -- 21 MR. BURTON: Well, yeah. 22 Construction's been underway for, as I said, 23 fourteen, fifteen months. 24 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: You know, 25 maybe it was approved but there's a lot of - 57 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 holes in this project that needs answering. 3 So I don't understand how it got approved with 4 these many holes. A lot of questions still. 5 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: But at 6 that time there were fewer units, right? More 7 units? 8 MS. BERKENWALD: It was fewer units 9 but there's actually fewer bedrooms in what we 10 propose now. 'Cause there was a group of 11 thirty-nine three bedroom townhouses. And now 12 it's nine townhouses and fifty-three, fifty- 13 four units in the apartment and they're 14 actually -- the total bedrooms, I think, it 15 was nine fewer bedrooms. So it's really not a 16 denser, a heavier, project than before and 17 because of the site work and the difficulties 18 to the site, footprints are now somewhat 19 smaller. 20 MR. BURTON: And just to address the 21 comments about the -- the questions that have 22 arisen tonight after the design was about the 23 current sight visibility and the problems with 24 construction on site, the drainage, the 25 erosion control. I think the rest of the - 58 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 project is sound. We've tweaked it a little 3 bit from the first time around. Actually, 4 we've gotten more information. We've tweaked 5 the drainage. 6 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: I understand 7 you have a lot of handshake agreements. 8 MR. BURTON: Oh, is that what you're 9 talking about? Yes. Well, we always had that 10 when this got approved the first time around. 11 At least this time around -- the first time 12 around we didn't even know who the property 13 owners were. This time around we got everyone 14 to agree. But, obviously, before any work is 15 done we will have -- we have to have those 16 agreements in writing. 17 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Mr. Burton, what I 18 think the board's concerned about is that this 19 proposal is still going on and based on your 20 testimony the owner is not here, the 21 applicant -- we want something more secure. I 22 think what Commissioner Holloway and 23 Commissioner Arencibia are saying so we can -- 24 we need something more concrete. We have 25 applicants that come in front of us, they give - 59 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 a testimony and then once the projects start, 3 it starts to change. Whether they come in 4 front of us or not -- that's why -- Mr. 5 Tridente's department and other people have to 6 come back. And it's hard to go after you 7 after the fact. 8 MR. BURTON: So you'd like the 9 agreements in writing and finalized? 10 MS. BERKENWALD: I will provide them 11 with things that are signed. I'll provide 12 this board a copy of all the easement 13 agreements. 14 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I don't 15 think we could approve this unless it is 16 all -- 17 MR. BURTON: That's fine. Whatever. 18 Either make it a condition or -- 19 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Make it a 20 condition. 21 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Mr. Calvanico? 22 MR. CALVANICO: We have done that 23 before, Mr. Chairman. I think we could do 24 that and we could come up with language so 25 that the resolution is specifically contingent - 60 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 upon receiving agreements from those other 3 property owners, if that's what the board 4 wants. 5 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Mr. 6 Chairman, I have a question for Commissioner 7 Demetrio. Do you have a problem of doing this 8 without talking to the owners of the property? 9 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Well, I 10 mean, I think we all have take a position on 11 that. There's a number of issues. One is the 12 easement for Church Hill Road. We don't know 13 if they have that or not. They say they have 14 an agreement. But something legally binding, 15 to make sure that it does get done as part of 16 this project is important. You should have 17 provided that before this meeting for us to be 18 certain of that. Then the other issues with 19 drainage and sight distance I think we can put 20 do that as conditional. I think the concern 21 is for Church Hill Road. 22 MR. BURTON: Right-of-way 23 dedications. Well, you've been calling them 24 easements but most of them are going to be 25 right-of-way dedications. Easements or - 61 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 dedications. 3 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: The 4 applicant has started construction already. 5 MR. BURTON: Yeah. He's spent 6 millions of dollars already so it's not -- 7 MS. BERKENWALD: On site work. 8 COMMISSIONER HALLOWAY: We have a 9 problem right now with the drainage from the 10 site itself, correct? 11 MR. BURTON: That's construction. 12 That's not final -- 13 MS. BERKENWALD: It's temporary. 14 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: I understand 15 that but it's an issue that -- and he has to 16 understand that he's liable for it. 17 MS. BERKENWALD: He does and he 18 takes full responsibility and he's insured and 19 is taking care of it. There are, again, a lot 20 of other issues on Church Hill in this area. 21 MR. BURTON: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: No, 'cause 23 the weather is getting cold, water drainage is 24 frozen, you could have so many accidents. 25 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Well, I'm - 62 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 thinking, he probably has as part of his 3 excavations ran into a spring or something and 4 water's coming from the ground -- 5 MR. BURTON: If I can -- since we're 6 talking about drainage, let me just get into 7 it a little bit and the problem we could -- as 8 I mentioned, there's no drainage on River 9 Road. That's where -- all these apartment 10 buildings on top and up the hill, on the 11 cliff, they all dump the water onto the 12 Palisades and then down the cliff. So we had 13 to, first to control the site, we're 14 collecting all the runoff from the -- all 15 these buildings above us. We're actually -- 16 some of this is in. We're collecting this 17 drainage and bringing it down and we're trying 18 to bring it to a detention basin on the south 19 side of the property. Now, a lot of this 20 water flowed in various ways. Some of it 21 flowed across Church Hill Road and came out 22 north of the intersection on the property 23 there. So, really, by starting to collect 24 this water from everything on top of us we've 25 actually -- - 63 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: But you're 3 collecting it now? 4 MR. BURTON: We're collecting it 5 now but what happens is now we've created a 6 point source as opposed to where it used to be 7 spread out -- 8 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: I understand 9 that. 10 MR. BURTON: -- and that's part of 11 the -- part of our stormwater problem -- 12 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: That's the 13 problem -- 14 MR. BURTON: -- today. 15 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: -- causing 16 that big puddle, am I correct? 17 MR. BURTON: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Well, that's 19 an issue he was trying to say that has to be 20 corrected tomorrow. 21 MR. BURTON: Yes. Well -- 22 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Not next 23 week or -- 24 MR. BURTON: Well, we've been -- 25 right. What has been going on in construction - 64 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 is to -- we've been cleaning and now we're 3 going to be netting and bolting the cliff face 4 but to protect it from further erosion, we had 5 to control that runoff. And we are putting in 6 a drainage -- eventually, it will all get tied 7 into a drainage system that will take it where 8 it's supposed to go into the street. But 9 right now -- well, until they get that system 10 in, we are -- it's being ponded at the south 11 side of the site and then it's being brought 12 in pipes over land and then dumped into the 13 inlet right at River Road. 14 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: That's the 15 way he's doing it right now? 16 MR. BURTON: Right now there's a 17 pipe on the side of the street. 18 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Right. On 19 land. 20 MR. BURTON: Yeah. And then with an 21 elbow into the inlet. 22 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Mr. Burton, I 23 think that there's more than just -- for us to 24 do a conditional approval -- we've done that 25 in the past on maybe one item, possibly two, - 65 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 it seems like we're talking about more than 3 two items, you brought up the fact of possibly 4 meeting down there with our inspector and 5 talking to someone from the county engineer's 6 department so we can clarify this. Part of 7 the reason is, Ms. Berkenwald -- I know you're 8 the applicant's attorney but it might be 9 easier if he's there also and understands what 10 is going to be his --. 11 MS. BERKENWALD: He certainly is 12 willing. We thought -- 13 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: -- liabilities 14 MS. BERKENWALD: -- that this was 15 already approved and we're just amending it. 16 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: And it becomes a 17 safety issue, too. So maybe that should be 18 one of the steps that we should consider at 19 this point. 20 MS. BERKENWALD: We're certainly 21 willing to meet with you and we could arrange 22 that before the approval -- if it is an 23 approval, I hope -- is memorialized next 24 month. Our client is actually fairly easy to 25 reach. Tonight was a problem. - 66 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Did the 3 Township of North Bergen approve this already? 4 MR. BURTON: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Without 6 the -- any easements? 7 MR. BURTON: When we went back to 8 them -- well, they approved it the first time 9 around. 10 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I'm 11 talking about now. 12 MR. BURTON: And they approved it 13 this time because this time we were further 14 ahead and the Township also, you know, knows 15 the owner of the property down there. I mean, 16 there's been informal conversations. He's 17 already made a commitment. He's coming here 18 with a site plan. His site plan shows that 19 dedication. He's not going anywhere without 20 dedicating that land. So, the people in town 21 knew that it was going to happen. 22 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: I think, 23 Chairman, the -- looks like the -- all the 24 commissioners are feeling but they're feeling 25 is like a -- whatever they are proposing there - 67 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 is so many ifs and buts are there. In that 3 case, if they agree, we can table this 4 proposal for the next month. By the next 5 month, if there's all the documents whatever 6 they are proposing they're saying this 7 easement is going to be documented and this 8 things will be taken care of it and at the 9 same time our engineers can meet their 10 engineers and you're going to finalize this 11 stormwater problem. It will be -- we will 12 have a better clear picture. So we can table 13 this for one month and you can have all the 14 documents ready by the next month. 15 MR. BURTON: Correct. Well, yes, 16 we'll do that. That's fine. Why not do that? 17 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Before we make any 18 motions, would -- go ahead, Mr. Marks? 19 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, one 20 housekeeping item. This application was 21 submitted before the board increased its 22 application fee and escrow deposit and it was 23 just brought to my attention that the 24 applicant is actually in arrears in the escrow 25 so I would ask that the applicant and the - 68 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 counsel make an additional escrow deposit to 3 cover the cost. 4 MR. BURTON: Do you have an idea 5 what it is? Or you want to tell me -- 6 MR. MARKS: It's currently 628 7 without below. Basically, you owe 628 dollars 8 in escrow accounts, escrow dollars right now. 9 That's not counting the appearance fee of T&M 10 and Associates this evening and whatever other 11 times. 12 MR. BURTON: Another 2,000 dollars. 13 MR. MARKS: I would imagine that 14 should be sufficient. 15 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Mr. 16 Chairman, will you just make sure that that's 17 here in house before they come back the next 18 month? 19 MR. MARKS: That's why I mentioning 20 it on the record. 21 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Have you 22 billed it? Has it been billed? 23 MS. BERKENWALD: I don't think it's 24 been billed 'cause this client pays on time. 25 MR. BURKE: Yeah, that's one -- - 69 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 MR. BERKENWALD: You know, I can't 3 say that about a lot of people but this one 4 does. 5 COMMISSIONER HALLOWAY: That's why I 6 mentioned it. 7 MS. BERKENWALD: Okay. I mean, we 8 certainly will take care of it. 9 MR. MARKS: The applicant did submit 10 the correct escrow deposit at the time that 11 the application was made but the bills from 12 T&M have exceeded by 628 dollars. 13 MR. BURTON: That's fine. That's 14 fine. We'll do that. 15 MS. BERKENWALD: Will the board 16 consider doing a conditional approval based on 17 supplying these documents before we 18 memorialize the resolution? 19 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I think what 20 Commissioner Mehta was saying is, there's too 21 many items for a conditional approval at this 22 time. Now, if we're able to meet next month 23 if you're in front of us and there's possibly 24 one condition, you know, we're not going to 25 make you come back again. - 70 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 MS. BERKENWALD: All right. Okay. 3 Great. Thank you. 4 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Do I have a 5 motion? 6 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I'll make a 7 motion to table this application to next 8 month. 9 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: I second. 10 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a 11 motion to table Application SP-69-06 made by 12 Commissioner Bettinger, seconded by 13 Commissioner Holloway, Commissioner Arencibia? 14 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 15 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 16 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 17 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 18 CHAIRMAN BETTINGER: Aye. 19 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 20 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 21 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 22 Fitzgibbons? 23 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 24 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 25 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. - 71 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Mehta? 3 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: Aye. 4 MR. MARKS: Chairman Choffo? 5 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I vote aye. 6 MR. BURTON: Thank you very much. 7 MS. BERKENWALD: Thank you. Have a 8 good night. 9 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the next 10 application scheduled for public hearing is 11 SP/SD-93-06, Roseland/Port Imperial, LLC, 12 located at Block 168.01, Lots 7.02 and 8 in 13 the town of West New York. Mr. Chairman, in 14 your packets this evening is a letter from the 15 applicant's attorney, Mr. Joseph Daly. The 16 letterhead is Weiner Lesniak, LLP. The letter 17 is dated January 10th, 2007 and it's 18 requesting an adjournment of this application 19 until next month. 20 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Do I have a 21 motion? 22 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Motion. 23 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Second. 24 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I'll second 25 it. - 72 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a 3 motion to adjourn Application SP/SD-93-06 made 4 by Commissioner Holloway, seconded by 5 Commissioner DiDomenico, Commissioner 6 Arencibia? 7 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 8 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 9 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 10 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 11 CHAIRMAN BETTINGER: Aye. 12 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 13 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 14 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 15 Fitzgibbons? 16 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 17 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 18 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 19 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Mehta? 20 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: Aye. 21 MR. MARKS: And Chairman Choffo? 22 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Aye. 23 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the next 24 application scheduled for public hearing is 25 SD-107-06, Liberty Harbor Holding, LLC, - 73 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 located at 299 Morris Boulevard in Jersey 3 City, New Jersey. Mr. Chairman, just for my 4 own edification, there were two applications 5 on the agenda for this evening and they're 6 both major subdivisions, 107 and 106. The 7 attorney for the applicant requested an 8 adjournment and I just want to make sure that 9 it's the correct one. Also in your packet 10 this evening should be a letter from Mr. 11 Harrington's office. I believe we have an 12 attorney from Connell Foley here. 13 MR. DEVOE: Correct. William DeVoe. 14 MR. MARKS: Mr. DeVoe was the 15 applicant requesting an adjournment of the 107 16 application or the 108? 17 MR. DEVOE: The 108. 18 MR. MARKS: Oh. Mr. Chairman, the 19 application before you is 107, Liberty Harbor 20 Holding, LLC. 21 MR. DEVOE: Mr. Chairman, William 22 DeVoe of Connell Foley on behalf of the 23 applicant. We're here before the board 24 tonight for a major subdivision approval. We 25 have received approval from the Jersey City - 74 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 Planning Department on September 19th of 2006 3 which was memorialized on October 3rd, 2006. 4 For the record, the last do not -- are not 5 adjacent to a county road, nor do they affect 6 county drainage, but essentially what we want 7 to do is create new tax blocks for future 8 development in the Liberty Harbor North 9 redevelopment area which is by the Jersey City 10 Boys' and Girls' Club and the hospital over 11 there on Grant. 12 Essentially, we're taking eight tax 13 lots and making them into blocks and propose 14 streets for future development. We don't know 15 exactly what's going to be there. We don't 16 have the site plan approval. We don't have 17 site plans finalized yet but we expect those 18 within forty days. 19 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I'm sorry. Jersey 20 City did approve this without site plans? 21 MR. DEVOE: That's correct. Right. 22 They approved the subdivision. 23 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Usually 24 we just -- for formality approve the 25 subdivisions. - 75 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Any questions from 3 any commissioners? 4 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: No, this is 5 this just a subdivision and there's no county 6 roads involved in this application. 7 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I make a 8 motion to approve. 9 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: I will second 10 it. 11 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a 12 motion to approve Application SD-107-06, 13 Liberty Harbor Holding, LLC, located at 299 14 Morris Boulevard in Jersey City, made by 15 Commissioner Fitzgibbons, seconded by 16 Commissioner Mehta, Commissioner Arencibia? 17 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 18 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 19 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 20 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 21 CHAIRMAN BETTINGER: I vote aye. 22 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 23 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 24 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 25 Fitzgibbons? - 76 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 3 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 4 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: (No audible 5 response) 6 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: He 7 stepped out. 8 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Mehta? 9 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: Aye. 10 MR. MARKS: And Chairman Choffo? 11 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I vote aye. 12 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 13 passed. 14 MR. DEVOE: Thank you. 15 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the next 16 application scheduled for public hearing is 17 SD-108-06, Grand Liberty Harbor North II Urban 18 Renewal, LLC, located at Grand Street and Luis 19 Marin Boulevard in Jersey City. This is the 20 application -- there was a little confusion 21 because the attorney for the applicant 22 requested -- he had submitted two applications 23 at one time. They requested that one be 24 adjourned and then he called back and -- I was 25 misinformed. There was the other application - 77 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 he was referring to. There's a fax in your 3 packet this evening from Connell Foley, LLP, 4 dated January 17, 2007 and in the letter, the 5 attached letter, the applicant -- or the 6 attorney for the applicant, Charles 7 Harrington, requests this application be 8 adjourned until a future meeting. 9 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: All right. Do I 10 have a motion to adjourn this application? 11 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: There's 12 somebody here. 13 MR. PAN: I need to make a comment 14 on this. I was at the planning office down at 15 the courthouse -- 16 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Sorry, sir. Can 17 you identify yourself? 18 MR. PAN: Oh, I'm sorry. My name is 19 Cheng Pan. I'm the property owner of 195 20 Grant Street which is adjacent to this two 21 projects, that would be SD-108-06. I was down 22 at the county courthouse today -- 23 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I'm sorry. Could 24 our attorney swear you in for testimony? 25 MR. PAN: Okay. - 78 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 C H E N G P A N, having been first duly 3 sworn according to law, testified as follows: 4 MR. PAN: I was at the county 5 courthouse in the basement, that's the 6 planning offices, and I was told that SD-107- 7 06 would be postponed and SD-108-06 would be 8 effective. That's this afternoon. 'Cause I 9 had questions about this site plan and the 10 major site plan review. I wanted to provide 11 testimony today but since it's adjourned I 12 can't do that. I would have liked to know 13 when it will be the next available date to -- 14 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Our apologies 15 about that as Mr. Marks just explained. There 16 was confusion because the attorney, Mr. 17 Harrington, was the attorney for both 18 applications so there was just a little 19 miscommunication obviously in the eleventh 20 hour today. This will be on the -- Steve, 21 this will be on the February 21st meeting? 22 MR. MARKS: If it's okay with the 23 board. It's at the discretion of the board. 24 MR. PAN: 24th? February 24th? 25 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: February 21st. - 79 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 MR. PAN: February 21st. Wow, it's 3 strange that on this -- even this afternoon 4 around 3:00 I wasn't even told about that. 5 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Can I ask 6 you a question, sir? 7 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: He didn't 8 know you wanted to come here. 9 MR. PAN: What? 10 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Was this 11 plan approved by Jersey City? 12 MR. PAN: Yes, I think yes. I 13 believe so. 14 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Does this 15 property abut into any county property, county 16 roads? 17 MR. PAN: There's a question about 18 the road, Luis Marin Boulevard. We don't even 19 know if it's a county road is a city road is a 20 private road. And I think that's questions 21 about that. 22 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: City roads. 23 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Just want 24 to explain to you, sir, that as long as it's 25 not abutted into a county road -- - 80 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 MR. PAN: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: -- these 4 subdivisions are granted. 5 MR. PAN: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: 'Cause it 7 does not affect a county road. We've had no 8 control over that. 9 MR. PAN: Well, if you don't have to 10 control, why do we have a hearing here in 11 Hudson County? 12 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Just a 13 formality. 14 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: You're welcome to 15 come to the next meeting, sir, and you will be 16 heard. We -- right now the application is not 17 going to take place. We're going to adjourn 18 it until the next meeting. 19 MR. PAN: Okay. 20 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: So, you're welcome 21 to come back on February 21st and be heard. 22 No sense in discussing it when we don't have 23 the application in front of us. 24 MR. PAN: Yeah. Yeah, I appreciate 25 that, yeah. - 81 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: You're more than 3 welcome. 4 MR. PAN: Thank you. 5 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: You're welcome. 6 Do I have a motion to adjourn that application 7 to February's meeting? 8 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: I make a motion 9 to adjourn. 10 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Adjourn? 11 Second. 12 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a 13 motion to adjourn SD-108-06 made by 14 Commissioner Mehta, seconded by Commissioner 15 Avagliano, Commissioner Arencibia? 16 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 17 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 18 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 19 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 20 CHAIRMAN BETTINGER: Aye. 21 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 22 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 23 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 24 Fitzgibbons? 25 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. - 82 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 3 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 4 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Mehta? 5 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: Aye. 6 MR. MARKS: Chairman Choffo? 7 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Aye. 8 MR. MARKS: Okay. That concludes 9 the agenda with the exception of the 10 memorialization of the resolution of approval 11 for SP-53-06, that's Candlewood Suites 12 application. We do have the attorney for the 13 applicant here who has seen and read the draft 14 memorialized resolution as prepared by Mr. 15 Calvanico. The attorney for the applicant 16 would like to address the board with regard to 17 proposed changes that he's putting forth. 18 MR. FRIEDMAN: In the redline 19 version you'll see the changes made. Thank 20 you, Mr. Chairman. My name is Jordan 21 Friedman. Last name is spelled F-R-I-E-D-M-A- 22 N. I'm an associate with the law firm of 23 Chasan, Leyner and Lamparello in Secaucus and 24 to start off I would just like to say thank 25 you for giving me the opportunity to speak - 83 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 about the proposed resolution to the extent 3 that my speaking about the form prepared by 4 your counsel is out of the ordinary. Again, 5 your time is appreciated. 6 At your last meeting in December, we 7 received a conditional approval of this hotel 8 project on Secaucus Road. The various 9 conditions were talked about and they were 10 included in the form that was prepared by your 11 counsel. We got a copy of the draft and we 12 had various comments simply because certain 13 provisions -- there were certain conditions 14 were very open-ended and also, as you may 15 recall, from the discussion on December 20th, 16 the main issue was the traffic signal that our 17 client is preparing an application for and 18 certainly we left this room that night with a 19 strong sense that this board, through the 20 engineer, was confident that the New Jersey 21 Department of Transportation would grant the 22 application. 23 But we did have two experts here, 24 one engineer who talked about the site plan. 25 We also had an expert traffic engineer and - 84 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 they indicated pretty strongly, I believe, 3 that to the extent that the decision to place 4 the traffic signal at the particular location 5 on Secaucus Road is left to DOT and then DOT 6 decides well, the traffic signal fails various 7 tests and therefore the traffic signal was not 8 needed, we didn't want to be in a position 9 where failure to get approval from DOT for the 10 traffic signal would result in a de facto 11 denial of the application before this board. 12 So, one of the main things I did in 13 submitting a revised version to you, and I 14 think if you -- I think you have to read them 15 in conjunction but paragraphs 7 and 8 -- what 16 we want to accomplish in this resolution is 17 reserving the right to move ahead with the 18 project, really, open up for business if the 19 DOT decides that the traffic signal is 20 unnecessary. Because realizing that that 21 decision is their domain -- we'll certainly 22 install the traffic signal if approved to 23 whatever specifications are required by the 24 county engineer and so on and so forth and our 25 client was clear about that at the hearing. - 85 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 But if a state body says we don't have to do 3 it but the county still wants it, we don't 4 want to be caught in that in-between area. We 5 want to be able to open up for business. So, 6 I direct your attention to that. 7 There were issues about certain 8 escrow funds. You'll see on the last page of 9 the revised draft, the way we spell it out is, 10 really, what escrow monies, what's the total 11 amount, what are they for. We're just looking 12 for certainty. Similarly, in paragraph 12, 13 our client at the last meeting did say that 14 they would make a reasonable contribution 15 regarding that -- the pump station. Still, we 16 don't what reasonable would be. We've 17 suggested that, though we're comfortable with 18 keeping language about a reasonable 19 contribution in the resolution, perhaps we 20 should be considering a cap. I don't know if 21 that's something that we can do tonight, but 22 of all the things that we addressed, perhaps 23 this falls at the bottom of the list. 24 In paragraph 13, you'll note on the 25 right-hand side of the page, that was the - 86 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 language that had been proposed. There was -- 3 the resolution suggested that the applicant 4 would basically sign off on virtually any 5 document that the county required. But that 6 was a bit too open-ended. So, in all honesty, 7 I did revise that paragraph 13 but I'm not 8 even so -- in fact, I'm convinced that it's 9 probably unnecessary to even have that 10 paragraph in the resolution because based upon 11 all the other conditions that have been listed 12 in this document, certainly, as certain 13 milestones are met, if something has to be 14 signed off on, of course, our client, who you 15 certainly will recall, is willing with the 16 board and do what's necessary to get going. 17 So, it's a long introduction as to 18 what it is I try to accomplish here. I don't 19 know if I should apologize but I will 20 apologize anyway that this is coming at the 21 last minute. Timing is always a factor. Our 22 two experts who were here the last time, one 23 of them was out of state and he was just 24 flying back into the area today. I literally 25 spoke to him around 4:30 to get his input. So - 87 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 that's how we got to where we are right now. 3 I'd be more than happy to spend time 4 tonight, if you think it's appropriate, to go 5 line by line, paragraph by paragraph, to make 6 sure that this is the most appropriate 7 resolution based upon this board's vote a 8 month ago. 9 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Mr. Friedman, when 10 was this submitted to Mr. Marks or Mr. 11 Calvanico -- your recommendations? 12 MR. FRIEDMAN: Well, this form they 13 received this evening. However, I received 14 Mr. Calvanico's draft on Sunday. I saw it on 15 Monday. I myself was -- I was out of state. 16 I did reply to Mr. Calvanico yesterday 17 expressing that we were supplying our initial 18 comments and then for the variety of reasons I 19 explained we were able to put together the 20 most complete document that we could today. I 21 did speak to Mr. Calvanico this afternoon to 22 let him know about a couple of conversations I 23 had with Mr. Marks about where we were in this 24 process and that's -- so that's how we're 25 before you now. - 88 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I'm not speaking 3 on behalf of the whole board. It's just -- my 4 feeling is there's a lot to digest without us 5 speaking with the county engineer and, of 6 course, Mr. Calvanico as the board to go over 7 these changes. Because it's not like one or 8 two changes that's -- I understand your 9 position and your client's that you want to 10 move forward and upgrade the conditional 11 approval but -- anybody else have any 12 comments? 13 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Yes. I 14 have a question. When you came before us, we 15 agreed to a conditional -- on a set of 16 conditions, right? 17 MR. FRIEDMAN: It was a conditional 18 approval, correct. 19 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: We agreed 20 upon it, right? 21 MR. FRIEDMAN: Well, we agreed upon 22 many things. However, the way they were 23 spelled out in the resolution were not 24 necessarily to what we agreed to. And just by 25 way of further example, another thing that was - 89 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 discussed at length, the estimated 175,000 3 dollars to construct, install, design the 4 traffic signal. But there's been a 5 representation that there are other area -- 6 and for lack of better terminology, there are 7 other neighboring developers who are going to 8 be sharing in the cost of the construction, 9 design of that traffic signal. That wasn't 10 spelled out in this resolution. And that's 11 very important because the way the first draft 12 read the sole responsibility was our client's. 13 If that were truly the case, that would be 14 fine, but it isn't. So, it was important that 15 we correct that. So, I hope that example 16 serves a useful purpose. 17 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Can I ask 18 you. Are there are other developers involved 19 in this? 20 MR. FRIEDMAN: We had talked 21 about, Mr. Chairman -- we had spoken about 22 other people in the area, Cinelli Scrap Metal 23 being one of them, as contributing to the cost 24 of that traffic signal that might have to be 25 installed. - 90 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Well, I can 3 add to that. When they got their approval the 4 traffic signal was not an issue at the time of 5 their approval. So it wasn't a condition, as 6 I recall, for their approval -- I mean, their 7 condition was to help fund the pump station. 8 MR. FRIEDMAN: I believe it was 9 both. 10 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, my 11 recollection was that it was both the attorney 12 for Cinelli agreed to -- that application for 13 the Scrap Metal recycling yard -- the -- and I 14 believe Mr. Reimon had funds from Medina 15 Consultants -- had reviewed both applications. 16 So he could speak better to the issue than I 17 can, but that application for Cinelli Scrap 18 Metal was not the truck traffic trip 19 generation wasn't enough to warrant a traffic 20 signal on its own. But we understood and I 21 don't know if we were in possession of the 22 application for the Candlewood Suites but we 23 did know that there were other proposed 24 developments in the area and the applicant or 25 his attorney is on record before this board as - 91 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 willing to make a contribution towards -- it 3 would be a prorated contribution towards the 4 installation of a traffic signal. The actual 5 dollar figure was not discussed but it would 6 be based on the amount of truck trips or 7 traffic that that development would generate. 8 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: That was 9 the only other developer, right? 10 MR. MARKS: That was the only one 11 that we were aware of and that we met well 12 before the -- before this planning board at 13 that time. 14 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I have a question, 15 Steve. The -- for Cinelli -- their 16 contribution to the Penhorn Creek was not 17 finalized either, was that? 18 MR. MARKS: They had agreed -- we 19 had -- the county is -- the pump station on 20 Penhorn Creek -- there's two currently that 21 need rehabilitation and replacement. One is 22 at St. Pauls Avenue which is a little bit down 23 river of this and there's -- it's called the 24 Big Lee pump station which is within a hundred 25 feet of -- a hundred feet of this site. The - 92 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 Penhorn Creek pump station is currently being 3 designed by consulting engineers for the 4 county and will be replaced and the Big Lee 5 pump station, which is directly related to 6 this site, is the subject of a future -- I'm 7 not talking -- I don't want to speak for the 8 county engineer. I'm not talking long term 9 but probably medium to short term replacement 10 or rehabilitation. We don't have -- I don't 11 have a -- I'm not aware of any dollar figures 12 for the design and replacement of the Big Lee 13 pump station. Both pump stations are on the 14 Penhorn Creek. I'm not aware of any dollar 15 figures for the Big Lee pump station yet but 16 the runoff -- the stormwater runoff from both 17 this application, the Candlewood Suites, and 18 the Cinelli Scrap Metal recycling facility 19 would feed into the Big -- the Penhorn Creek 20 at the Big Lee pump station. And they are on 21 record as being willing to make a contribution 22 but the dollar -- because we weren't aware of 23 the dollar figure at the time they're not on 24 record as to a specific dollar amount. 25 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: I think we - 93 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 haven't developed a formula yet as to how to, 3 you know, fairly distribute that split among 4 the developers. But we're moving in that 5 direction. We just awarded the Penhorn Creek 6 design, projects to a consultant. So we're 7 trying to get the numbers nailed down to what 8 it's going to be. 9 MR. MARKS: And there has to be a -- 10 there is a nexis. There has to be a rational 11 formula for that. There is another -- which 12 the board is fully aware, there was another 13 application a couple hundred feet down the 14 road FDP which was approved a couple years 15 ago. This area was all wetlands but for a few 16 decades ago and with the development that's 17 going in and the more impervious coverage, 18 asphalt and black top that's going down, all 19 of the wetlands and the marshlands and the 20 meadows in this area that used to absorb the 21 stormwater are not -- now not absorbing it. 22 And the stormwater runoff, the sheet flowing 23 into the Penhorn Creek and the particular 24 intersection by Secaucus Road and the Amtrak 25 railroad trestle was under water for about - 94 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 three days under a major storm event about a 3 year ago. So it is a problem. With each 4 application that comes before the board and 5 the developments that occur, it's contributing 6 to the problem. So we can't continue to 7 approve each application if the applicants 8 aren't willing to make a contribution to fix 9 the problem. 10 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Mr. Calvanico, do 11 you have any comments on that? 12 MR. CALVANICO: I just don't know 13 that we are in a position to be able to 14 resolve this tonight. This tends to bring 15 concerns about this kind of project and we 16 really speak to the county engineer to resolve 17 some of these issues in terms of the dollar 18 amounts. 19 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: The dollar amounts 20 and, I believe, the traffic signal -- we're 21 going to have to do more. It's going to be 22 tough to accomplish this tonight if you don't 23 mind, Mr. Friedman. 24 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: The traffic 25 signal -- the other thing, as far as getting - 95 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 this approval, we usually don't get the 3 approval until the signal is installed and 4 operating from DOT. The procedure is -- the 5 signal is designed, our office approves the 6 installation and then once it's operating, we 7 certify it and send it down to DOT. 8 MR. FRIEDMAN: Maybe this can help. 9 Again, the concern is, is that if a state 10 agency, which has the ultimate say on that 11 issue, says it's really not needed, we don't 12 want to be in the position of not being able 13 to open for business because as proposed the 14 resolution that you had before tonight's 15 meeting required us -- and actually, we don't 16 open for business until all the traffic signal 17 issues are resolved, until it's up and 18 running, for lack of a better word. But if up 19 and running is not required, we don't want to 20 be told well, we still want a traffic signal 21 and you can't operate until such time as we, 22 the county, are satisfied. And that's -- I'm 23 looking at it as maybe more simplistically. 24 But we just want to avoid a situation where if 25 disappointing news about the status of the - 96 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 traffic signal comes, we should still just be 3 allowed to open up for business. We're 4 willing to wait if the traffic signal is 5 supposed to be installed but if -- 6 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Well, the 7 whole point is really to ensure that the 8 signal does get constructed. The signal 9 approval will not take place until it's 10 operating. So, you're going to have to 11 install the signal. It's going to be 12 operating, then the county certifies it, sends 13 it down to DOT and gets the approval from the 14 state. So the approval won't come until the 15 signal is already installed and operating. 16 You'll be able to open once the signal is 17 activated. 18 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: I have a 19 question, Mr. Chairman. It's the county 20 engineer's department that has determined that 21 there should be a light there, right? 22 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: That's 23 right based on safety 24 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Based 25 upon -- pardon me? - 97 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Based on 3 safety concerns of the sight distance. 4 MR. REIMON: Mr. Chairman, Edwin 5 Reimon from Reimon Consultants. The traffic 6 signal is going to be installed in a county 7 road. The state of New Jersey has no 8 jurisdiction on the county road but any 9 traffic signal that is installed within the 10 state of New Jersey has to be reviewed, as Mr. 11 Arencibia mentioned, by the state. The county 12 has to take full responsibility for the 13 design, the installation, the certification of 14 the traffic signal and then it's up to the 15 state to authorize the operation of the 16 traffic signal. So, we are stuck with -- 17 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: But if the state's 18 not paying for it, have they ever denied a 19 traffic signal anywhere? 20 MR. REIMON: Basically, I haven't 21 seen a case when an engineer make a 22 recommendation based on the MUTCV, which is 23 the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices, 24 where it's stated that there are some warrant 25 analyses that have to be met or have to be - 98 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 analyzed by the engineers. Once the warrant 3 analysis is analyzed, then we come out and we 4 say you don't need a traffic signal by the 5 warrant analysis but if there is a safety 6 issue, the MUTCV also says that the engineer 7 can recommend the installation of a traffic 8 signal. And this is the case that we have. 9 The traffic warrant analysis may say you don't 10 need a traffic signal but there are safety 11 issues. And the county and Reimon Consultants 12 believe that a traffic signal needs to be 13 designed and installed at that location. 14 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: The other 15 thing is they look to see that the design 16 conforms to the manual. 17 MR. REIMON: Yeah, that's what it 18 is. 19 MR. ARENCIBIA: So at that -- 20 MR. REIMON: In reference to the 21 escrows, all we said is that we want to get 22 paid for the time that we spend reviewing the 23 plans. That's all we're charging to them. I 24 believe that we went over the initial escrow 25 that they have. - 99 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, this 3 application was submitted to the county before 4 the freeholder board increased the application 5 fee and escrow deposit. This is another 6 application where the escrows have been 7 depleted and I would ask that the attorney -- 8 I understand that this provision in here, a 9 later paragraph 11, in his revised resolution 10 but I would ask that the applicant or the 11 attorney on behalf of the applicant submit 12 additional escrow. Currently, without this 13 evening's meeting or any future review of the 14 application or the resolution, I believe the 15 application is down about 2500 dollars. I 16 would be happy to furnish the billing records 17 to the attorney for his perusal and 18 information. 19 MR. REIMON: For the record, we 20 already closed the application. We are not 21 charging any more time for this so we're going 22 to have to reopen it again for any time that 23 we spend on it. 24 MR. FRIEDMAN: And just to be clear, 25 and this is our client's position. The - 100 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 certainties about getting all of the 3 approvals, they're very glad to hear it. They 4 truly, truly are. This is -- my commentary is 5 not about trying to upset anybody's beliefs 6 about what is likely going to happen. It's 7 just in the unlikelihood that we find 8 ourselves in the situation that we think is 9 miniscule -- the way the resolution was 10 written, it could be interpreted that without 11 a traffic signal for whatever reason, whether 12 the county has ultimate say or doesn't have 13 ultimate say, we would be prevented from 14 opening up for business. And that's all we're 15 trying to avoid. We want to follow every rule 16 and directive that you have but in the event 17 that the best laid plans don't come to pass, 18 we don't want to be foreclosed from operating 19 this project that is a good one. 20 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I understand, Mr. 21 Friedman. And I'm not trying to be facetious 22 but on some of these recommendations it also 23 looks like they're splitting hairs on some of 24 the wording and that's why we're going to need 25 time. I think Mr. Calvanico is going to need - 101 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 time and the engineering department to just go 3 through some of these other recommendations 4 that you're talking about. Like I said, I'm 5 not speaking on behalf of the whole board. If 6 the other board members have comments they're 7 welcome to -- 8 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I think 9 what has to be done here is -- these are your 10 recommendations? 11 MR. FRIEDMAN: Yes, they are. 12 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I think 13 our attorney would have to go over them and 14 see if they're -- if it's feasible to change 15 any -- you know. If it's feasible to change 16 your resolution -- our resolution or to keep 17 it -- some of it the same. 18 MR. CALVANICO: Mr. Chairman, based 19 on my review tonight, while doing other things 20 at the meeting, there -- obviously, there are 21 certain things that we can agree to with minor 22 language changes. The concern I have is that 23 I want to make sure that the county engineer 24 is comfortable with the language about the 25 escrows, agreement of the other property - 102 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 owners and with this agreement about what 3 happens if there is no traffic signal 4 authorized by DOT. I don't think it would be 5 a problem for us to come with the appropriate 6 language but this is trying to do it under the 7 gun, so to speak. 8 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: And, Mr. 9 Chairman, like, if you remember any 10 application in the past and the future we are 11 always as a county we have a very limited 12 jurisdiction. And whatever our approval is it 13 always subject to the local approval and 14 they're mentioning the same, you can say, 15 approval. And the same way it's here. Also, 16 like, most of the Secaucus is under council of 17 Maryland Commission and the Secaucus where the 18 town itself doesn't have a jurisdiction on 19 sixty or seventy percent of the Secaucus town. 20 So if Maryland Commission and they also comes 21 up and they doesn't approve, then definitely 22 it becomes a conflict. And they we have to 23 come up that day and say whose jurisdiction is 24 that at the final say? Because whenever any 25 application comes in front of us we always - 103 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 find out that whether, like, a local board and 3 local town -- whether they did the approval or 4 not. So we have to be on the same page. So 5 you can say, I think this is the same thing as 6 far we're definitely to do with respect to 7 attorney -- the board members are not the 8 attorneys. And to understand and digest and 9 have these legal words and legal implication 10 of that agreement will be very hard to 11 convince to them. And even the board 12 direction you can finalize the words and the 13 money issue as well as the word issue and 14 legality of drafting the resolution. It will 15 be deal that we can table for the next month. 16 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Are you going to 17 make a motion? 18 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: I'm just 19 suggesting that this is the easiest way. And 20 another thing is, like, for traffic signal 21 purpose I can understand the applicant's 22 concern. In that case, we can always say that 23 it's subject to the local approval also. 24 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: We did spend a lot 25 of time at this the December -- - 104 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: I understand. 3 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: -- site plan 4 meeting. We spent over an hour. 5 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Mr. 6 Chairman, I think it's fair that they give us 7 another month to think this over because I 8 think that you've had three or four weeks to 9 look it over and make your own comments when 10 you were here last month. 11 MR. FRIEDMAN: Actually, we received 12 the draft resolution on Sunday. That's when 13 it was e-mailed to me. I did not see my e- 14 mail until Monday. 15 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: I'm not denying 16 that we don't need a traffic signal. Traffic 17 signals, safety purpose, yes, but at the same 18 time our engineer also at the end -- the 19 attorney also says our, you can say, also says 20 that the money issue is still not clarified. 21 That whether the -- whose responsibility and 22 how much you can say the person or this 23 particular applicant has to chip in or the 24 other person has to chip in. So I think that 25 it will be better that all the things, - 105 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 particularly -- definitely money issue has to 3 be straightened it out before -- and the 4 resolution finalized. 5 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: We're not going to 6 be able to do that tonight. 7 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: I know. And 8 that's why I was thinking that in that case we 9 can say we can table it for the next month, in 10 that case. 11 MR. FRIEDMAN: Mr. Chairman, may I 12 ask one question? And I'm not looking to 13 create extra work for the members of the board 14 because you give of your time late at night 15 often enough. Would it be out of the ordinary 16 to perhaps propose a very limited special 17 meeting before -- which I think your next 18 meeting is February 21st which is five weeks 19 away. I'm trying to do the best I can here 20 for my client in terms of the time clock. 21 And, you know, this -- our recommendations for 22 the final draft of the resolution, I think Mr. 23 Calvanico within a couple of hours can be 24 satisfied yes or no on the recommendations and 25 perhaps that's all the time that the county - 106 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 engineer would need as well. I am certainly 3 always available to meet with them in person 4 to hammer out the agreement. That's the 5 length I'll go to to make sure this is right. 6 But if we were able to save some 7 time and perhaps do something quickly in two 8 weeks, that would be very, very much 9 appreciated. 10 MR. CALVANICO: Mr. Chairman, is the 11 project on hold at this point in terms of 12 construction? 13 MR. FRIEDMAN: They're waiting for 14 the resolution. 15 MR. CALVANICO: That was my question 16 to see if that's what's holding up the -- 17 perhaps the assistant county engineer can 18 address that. I don't know if he can start 19 conditionally prior to getting a resolution. 20 MR. FRIEDMAN: I'll tell you, before 21 I came here tonight, I didn't ask them what 22 was the very next thing that they were going 23 to do tomorrow if the resolution were passed 24 tonight. But my guess is they have something 25 in store to do. - 107 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Well, you 3 know, we've approved other -- the other 4 developers' resolutions and we didn't have the 5 dollar amounts in those resolutions because we 6 didn't know it at that time. And we can 7 get -- probably because we have a better idea 8 now since we're narrowing it down with the 9 Penhorn Creek outfall, we could probably get 10 some prices within the next few weeks as to 11 what the developer is going to be paying. The 12 main thing I got is the traffic signal and, as 13 I said, that signal will be constructed and 14 we'll send all the information to the DOT once 15 that signal is activated. And we've never had 16 an instance where DOT has turned us down. 17 They're not going to tell us to remove the 18 signal. So that's very unlikely to happen. 19 They won't take that liability themselves to 20 tell us to remove the signal. The only 21 concern they have is to make sure that the 22 signal complies with the manual. It's 23 designed exactly according to the manual. And 24 that's really up to the engineer and county 25 together to make sure it's constructed in that - 108 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 manner. And the hotel can open up the day 3 that signal is turned on -- the switch is 4 flipped on. You won't get the approval until 5 probably three months later because they're 6 backlogged. 7 MR. FRIEDMAN: I don't want to focus 8 so much on the exactitudes of the signal has 9 been turned on, when that's going to happen. 10 What -- I want to look at it in a broader 11 context and that is, if there were issues 12 between the county and the state, which you've 13 never had before, we don't want to be caught 14 in the crossfire. So, really, as I said 15 before, I think this is a more simple concept 16 to me and that is, so long as we know in 17 writing that if there is a state/county issue, 18 we're not going to be paying the price for it. 19 That's all. 20 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Don't 21 really want to get you off the hook for that 22 because your engineer, the traffic engineer, 23 is going to be designing the signal for the 24 county. 25 MR. FRIEDMAN: Correct. - 109 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: So he's 3 going to certify to the county that his design 4 conforms to the Manual of Uniform Traffic 5 Control Device. So he's really the most 6 responsive person to design that signal in 7 conformance with the manual. 8 MR. FRIEDMAN: But this isn't so 9 much a design issue as a need issue. It's a 10 testimony that was given by our traffic 11 engineer as based upon whatever testing you 12 have to do to determine if the traffic signal 13 is necessary at a location. He said -- the 14 state is liable to say no. You really don't 15 need it. Your consulting engineer had a 16 different opinion and we're -- ultimately 17 we're okay with that. We're just concerned 18 about -- well, what if we happen to be right 19 and then you want the traffic signal but the 20 state says you don't have to -- 21 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: They're not going 22 to do that. 23 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: They don't 24 do that. They don't do that. 25 MR. FRIEDMAN: I understand that -- - 110 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: In your 3 situation we do need it because of the sight 4 distance. In other situations where I don't 5 need it for any reason they have still 6 approved those signals. 7 MR. FRIEDMAN: Well, I hear the 8 whispers around the room regarding the 9 unlikelihood of any of this happening but you 10 have to understand our position. And that's 11 all we're asking for. That's why I keep 12 saying maybe this is simple. 13 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: All the 14 state is worried about is if those traffic 15 lights meet their standards and their specs. 16 They'll approve that automatically. As long 17 as it fits their considerations, they will 18 approve it. That's all they care about. If 19 it's a safety issue, the state is not going to 20 go out on a limb to say to the county, if God 21 forbid somebody gets killed and you didn't 22 construct that light, somebody's going to be 23 held liable. And the state don't want to be 24 held liable for nobody. 25 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Commissioner - 111 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 Arencibia, are you comfortable with them 3 starting their work and set a conditional 4 approval now? And we give you time, your 5 department time and Mr. Calvanico time to 6 review the resolution and to work out 7 something -- 8 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Well, the 9 main thing I have is the traffic signal. That 10 phrase there is really -- obviously -- 11 especially of having that phrase. 12 MR. FRIEDMAN: Which phrase in 13 particular? 14 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: The number 15 8, "In the event the DOT determines the signal 16 is not required." 17 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: We're not 18 approving his recommendation. What I'm saying 19 is we're going to need time, Mr. Calvanico and 20 your department to go through this. 21 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Right. 22 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I can't promise 23 you that we could have another special meeting 24 prior to the 21st. I don't know, Steve -- we 25 don't have enough members at the site plan - 112 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 meeting to vote on that. But I don't know 3 what direction we would take on that prior to 4 our next February 21st meeting. 5 MR. CALVANICO: One of the issues 6 with any meeting is that notice has to be 7 performed. We'd have to put together a 8 meeting for that day, if it's the Tuesday of 9 the site plan committee and then have the 10 other commissioners vote by telephone or 11 something. It's not easy to coordinate all 12 the schedules. 13 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Even that may -- 14 I'm sorry, Tom, I didn't mean to interrupt 15 you. Even that may not be enough time, right, 16 our next site plan meeting to have your 17 department and Tom's department to look 18 through it. 19 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: We could 20 say that in a couple of weeks we could 21 probably try to iron this out. All right? 22 MR. REIMON: Mr. Chairman, may -- 23 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Go ahead, Mr. 24 Reimon. 25 MR. REIMON: I have something to say - 113 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 about Item number 9 in his letter to the 3 planning board. He says -- actually, in 4 number 8, sorry about that. He says that "the 5 applicant is to construct and operate the 6 traffic signal." That is not correct. The 7 applicant is only going to design the traffic 8 signal. 9 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Well, not because 10 of you but if we're going to start taking it 11 item by item then we're going to go through 12 all twenty, whatever that is -- thirteen 13 items, and I just think we shouldn't do it 14 now. 15 MR. REIMON: Yeah. Also -- 16 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Mr. 17 Chairman, the question was can they continue 18 whatever they're doing now while we review 19 this for the next meeting. That's the 20 question that I think the chairman was asking 21 the commissioner. Can they continue to do 22 whatever they're doing now? But I don't 23 know -- 24 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: We're not voting 25 on his changes. We're just saying is it okay - 114 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 to -- 3 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Basically, 4 we gave them conditional approval at the last 5 meeting and then this is really a -- 6 MR. CALVANICO: This is -- this 7 would be the conditional approval. The board 8 can conditionally approve it subject to 9 resolution of these other issues. 10 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Not Mr. Friedman's 11 changes. 12 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Not with 13 these changes, no. 14 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: It wouldn't be a 15 conditional approval of Mr. Friedman's -- 16 MR. CALVANICO: No. I mean, revised 17 resolution -- what the board approved last 18 month. The resolution authorizing this 19 project based upon general outline as 20 presented last month subject to being agreed 21 upon by the parties. 22 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: No. I'm 23 asking does that stop them from moving forward 24 until we review this? 25 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: We're - 115 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 basically not agreeing to the conditions that 3 he has set forth. 4 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: No, no. I 5 understand that. I'm not agreeing to this, 6 but what we agreed to last month. 7 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: So let me 9 agree to last month's until we review or this 10 has to be approved. That's what I don't 11 understand. 12 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: We're going to 13 adjourn -- 14 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: I 15 understand. 16 MR. CALVANICO: Mr. Chairman, 17 without the memorialized resolution they don't 18 have approval. 19 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Well, that's what 20 I'm asking. 21 MR. CALVANICO: They don't have it 22 approved. 23 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: That's what 24 I was -- 25 MR. FRIEDMAN: I want to point out - 116 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 one other thing. If we're adjourning 3 consideration of the resolution tonight, 4 perhaps one interpretation of the forty-five 5 day rule is that maybe the board isn't 6 complying with the timeline or time frame 7 within which a decision has to be made. 8 That's why -- another reason why I proposed a 9 special meeting. I'm not trying to trick 10 anybody here. I just, in the interest of full 11 disclosure, I want to raise that so perhaps 12 that might be the only motivation we need to 13 look at a schedule and have a special meeting 14 in two weeks. I will take care of all 15 notices. This way this board doesn't have to 16 worry about that getting done. I can do that 17 tomorrow if asked to. 18 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, I'm not an 19 attorney, I'm not trying to practice law, but 20 the county's planning enabling legislation 21 gives the statutory authority for this board 22 whose board does not have to adhere to 23 miscellaneous law which is forty-five day 24 period that the attorney just alluded to. 25 We're governed under 4027-6 and if the time is - 117 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 an issue, under 4027-6, the county is given 3 thirty days to review and deem complete if 4 it's complete, another thirty days or if it's 5 incomplete, another thirty days, basically, 6 thirty day increments. If the timeline is an 7 issue, and I'll let Mr. Calvanico address 8 that, then I would recommend that the board 9 approve the resolution that Mr. Calvanico had 10 drafted so we're all on the same page which is 11 essentially the understanding of the public 12 hearing. The county engineer and 13 commissioners' concerns, I think, are more 14 adequately addressed through Mr. Calvanico's 15 resolution. 16 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: And then how would 17 the next be (indiscernible), Mr. Friedman, I 18 don't understand. I understand what you're 19 saying. We're going to approve or memorialize 20 Mr. Calvanico's resolution but that doesn't 21 make the applicant happy. 22 MR. MARKS: Well, those are the 23 conditions that the county and the county 24 planning board put on the applicant as a 25 conditional approval. - 118 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: So then he can 3 come back and ask for these changes? 4 MR. MARKS: That's the conditional 5 approval. 6 MR. FRIEDMAN: If that is something 7 that the board is going to consider then 8 there's one change tonight that I respectfully 9 insist upon. And that is the use of the word 10 "sole" in connection with the applicant's 11 responsibility for the 175,000 dollar cost of 12 the traffic signal because, as we discussed 13 earlier, it is his sole responsibility. So 14 just so there isn't an obvious error, that's 15 something we would have to insist upon. 16 MR. MARK: Mr. Chairman, again, I 17 would object to that particular request. 18 Often times the last application or last 19 development in the door that gets approved is 20 the one that creates the condition. It's the 21 Candlewood Suites and the traffic analysis, 22 the traffic impact study, that we believe 23 warrants the installation of the traffic 24 signal. If we were to remove the word "sole" 25 from that, I think it creates enough waiver - 119 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 room between the applicant -- we could get 3 involved in a protracted negotiation where 4 Candlewood Suites, the applicant, could say 5 well, I don't want to contribute more than 6 100,000 and Cinelli Scrap Metal should 7 contribute 75,000, for example. If it's 8 the -- if we leave in -- it's my understanding 9 if we leave in "sole" we can always ask the 10 applicant for the -- Cinelli Scrap Metal 11 recycling facility has agreed to make a 12 prorated contribution towards a traffic 13 signal. But I believe the burden should be on 14 Candlewood Suites since that application, that 15 proposed development, is creating much more 16 traffic than the Scrap Metal recycling 17 facility. That's my only concern here is that 18 who would be the arbitrator in a dispute 19 between Cinelli and Candlewood Suites if you 20 remove that "sole" from the memorialized 21 resolution. 22 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Tom, do you agree 23 with that? Not that I'm doubting you, Steve, 24 I just -- 25 MR. MARKS: No, no. I'm not an - 120 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 attorney. I'm not in practice, meaning, I'm 3 not pretending to practice law. That's my 4 concern. I've seen that -- you know, I've 5 seen it many times. 6 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Mr. 7 Chairman, I agree with Steve. I mean, this 8 signal primary benefactor is this developer 9 and if nobody else participates in the 10 construction of the signal he still has to be 11 responsible to build it. 12 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: That's -- at our 13 sub-plan site plan committee meeting in 14 December we spent an hour and a half on it and 15 it kept coming back to the traffic signal. 16 So, I understand your client's position. I 17 think we all do. I just -- we can't start 18 making changes to the memorialization of 19 the -- without reviewing it, so I don't know 20 if the board's up for a special meeting in two 21 weeks. I don't know if we can even give you 22 an answer on that tonight. You mentioned 23 about a conference call at the next site plan 24 meeting, Tom? Is that feasible? 25 MR. CALVANICO: I was proposing that - 121 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 as a potential solution to the -- 3 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: But then would 4 have to be advertised as a meeting also? 5 MR. CALVANICO: You do. It would 6 still have to be advertised as a special 7 meeting. 8 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: The main 9 problem here is that traffic light. You're 10 not going to be satisfied until you get what 11 you want about that traffic light. 12 MR. FRIEDMAN: Again -- 13 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Unlike 14 the last time you were here on that traffic 15 light, you're here now on the traffic 16 question. 17 MR. FRIEDMAN: No. 18 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Let's be 19 honest. 20 MR. FRIEDMAN: The answer is a 21 qualified yes. Again -- 22 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I mean, 23 you'll have to put the traffic light up later 24 on. 25 MR. FRIEDMAN: We have no problem - 122 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 with that. We have no problem with that. Our 3 clients, when they were here, they said they 4 can't wait to do it. Well, they didn't really 5 say it like that but they can't wait to do it. 6 The bottom line is that if that traffic light 7 becomes a problem that -- 8 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: The only 9 problem I see is that the client don't want to 10 put it up. 11 MR. FRIEDMAN: No, no. That's not 12 true. That is not true and that's not why I 13 am here tonight. The reason why I'm here 14 tonight is, is that if for some reason they 15 are all intent on doing it and somebody for 16 some reason -- an issue with putting that 17 light up comes up, they don't want to be 18 foreclosed from operating their business. 19 That's it. They would do it tomorrow if 20 that's all it took. 21 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: If the 22 county says that it's going to be a hazard to 23 pedestrians with all the traffic, I believe 24 the state of New Jersey will not say no on 25 this because they don't want to be held - 123 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 liable. If the county -- if something does 3 happen for some reason like that, the county 4 is going to say, see, we told you. 5 MR. FRIEDMAN: Practically, we agree 6 with you one hundred percent. From a legal 7 perspective and you can blame the lawyers on 8 this one, if for some reason there was an 9 impediment to their opening up the hotel 10 because it was an issue over the traffic 11 light, that's all we're trying to avoid. 12 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Actually, 13 there's stall on this, they want open up that 14 hotel but they're doing a good job stalling it 15 themselves. 16 MR. FRIEDMAN: I think that's a 17 misinterpretation again. I'm talking about a 18 document. We're not talking about any kind of 19 construction activity, willingness or 20 unwillingness to do it. 21 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Mr. Friedman, I 22 think what we would consider doing is 23 adjourning this to a future date and we're 24 going to have to talk to Mr. Marks' department 25 and the county engineer's office and if we can - 124 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 do it sooner once we talk to the other board 3 members we'll do everything we can to try and 4 look at it sooner or address your changes 5 sooner and prior to the February 21st meeting. 6 I can't make any promises to you, though. 7 We'll do our best. 8 MR. FRIEDMAN: Well, I guess that'll 9 do. I'm just curious, when is the date of 10 that other meeting you were referring to? 11 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: The site plan 12 meeting, I believe, is February 7th. 13 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, it's the 14 first Wednesday in February but I'm not sure 15 of the exact date. 16 MR. FRIEDMAN: Very well. If 17 something could happen on that date, that 18 would be terrific. Thank you for time 19 tonight. 20 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Well, I think 21 first we're going to make a motion to adjourn 22 this memorialization. 23 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I have a 24 question, Mr. Chairman. Is there a 25 possibility of directly a letter to the - 125 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 Department of Transportation and asking them 3 is this -- are they really -- they can't put a 4 light there or they don't want to do it. And 5 find out what their feeling is first. If they 6 say they're going to put the light there, then 7 we have no problem. If they say, no, then we 8 have a problem to correct the resolution and 9 amend the resolution to say that this is DOT 10 refuses to install the light then we'll just 11 have to do without it , maybe just a stop 12 sign. But we should get a letter out to DOT 13 as soon as possible to ask for their 14 direction, is the light necessary or not 15 necessary? 16 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: With all due 17 respect, Commissioner, the county engineer is 18 saying that the light is -- it's our 19 jurisdiction. The state doesn't have 20 jurisdiction over it. They just want to make 21 sure that when they build it, it's built 22 correctly. 23 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: They're not really 24 going to ask you. 25 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: I just wanted - 126 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 to make sure that February 7th is another town 3 meeting so I will not be able to attend that 4 day. 5 MR. MARKS: Site plan meeting during 6 the -- 7 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: The 8 afternoon. 9 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: (indiscernible) 10 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Well, we're going 11 to talk about that after the -- 12 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Okay. All 13 right. 14 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Do I have a motion 15 to adjourn this memorialization? 16 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: I make a 17 motion. 18 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: And I 19 second it. 20 MR. MARKS: MR. MARKS: Mr. 21 Chairman, on a motion to adjourn the 22 memorialization of the resolution of approval 23 for SP-53-06 made by Commissioner Holloway, 24 seconded by Commissioner Fitzgibbons, 25 Commissioner Arencibia? - 127 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 3 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 4 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 5 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 6 CHAIRMAN BETTINGER: Aye. 7 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 8 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 9 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 10 Fitzgibbons? 11 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 12 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 13 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 14 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Mehta? 15 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: Aye. 16 MR. MARKS: Chairman Choffo? 17 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I vote aye. 18 MR. FRIEDMAN: Thank you again. 19 MR. CALVANICO: Mr. Chairman, just 20 so the record is clear, the motion is to table 21 the resolution as opposed to adjourn it. 22 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: Mr. Chairman, 23 there's still one more thing. I just realized 24 there was little bit memorializes. Some of 25 our last month all these resolutions the date - 128 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 was returned by January 20, 2006. Has to be 3 corrected to 2007. 4 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: It's okay. 5 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Anything else, 6 Steve? 7 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, under New 8 Business, I just have two matters. 9 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I got a 10 question. We had a gentleman up here on the 11 subdivisions in Jersey City that they don't 12 abut on the county road, you know, you got to 13 a little ignore that because The guys are 14 going to come back because we're going to wind 15 up approving that subdivision because it has 16 nothing to do with our board. 17 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Do we 18 actually know that? 19 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I had to 20 tell the gentleman the truth. 21 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: But do we 22 actually know that or we're just guessing? 23 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: We know 24 that. We know that. 25 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the major - 129 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 subdivision which are not on a county road -- 3 it's more a ministerial function of the board 4 to accept or approve the major subdivisions. 5 I think it's filed with the county register of 6 deeds and mortgages in any way and I don't 7 know even if there were objectors to the 8 application, if the planning board would have 9 a standing to reject a major subdivision which 10 didn't impact a county road. It would be the 11 more appropriate place that the objector would 12 have because the more appropriate place to go 13 would be a city -- municipal planning board 14 when the municipal subdivision is being 15 proposed. 16 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I'm sure if that's 17 on the agenda for next month Jude will -- 18 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: No. 19 You're the new chairman. You got to -- 20 MR. MARKS: Just under Old Business, 21 Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Mehta asked that I 22 bring copies of county map in case the 23 commissioners didn't get to see it. It's 24 dated 2006. It was approved by this board 25 back in April and by the freeholder board back - 130 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 in June. Even though it was last April people 3 have to bid and to go to friends it takes 4 quite a long time. So we only got the maps 5 in, I believe, early November. So for those 6 who -- for those of you who missed the 7 December meeting, this is your first 8 opportunity to -- anybody who would like 9 additional copies of the county map just 10 (indiscernible). 11 As a second point of order, too, the 12 state planning commission is conducting a 13 public hearing here in this room on January 14 31st -- January 31st, 2007. It's a meeting of 15 the state planning commission but I 16 disseminated the public notice to many people. 17 It's not a meeting of this board so if anybody 18 is interested they're more than welcome to 19 come but it's not a requirement of the 20 planning board -- public hearing of the state 21 planning commission. 22 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: What time 23 is it? 24 MR. MARKS: That is at -- 25 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: 6 p.m. - 131 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 MR. MARKS: It was originally 3 noticed for 6. The state -- two of the state 4 planning commissioners for their quorum 5 weren't available for 6:00 so it's actually 6 been noticed for 7:00. The original notice 7 that went out said 6 so they would change it. 8 So it's actually 7:00 now. Now, as part of 9 the state's development and redevelopment 10 plan, each county is responsible for what's 11 called a cross-acceptance process reaching out 12 goals for the municipality, finding out what 13 their goals and objectives are with regards to 14 planning, zoning and land use and 15 environmental and transportation and so on and 16 so forth. We prepared a plan in consultation 17 with all twelve municipalities. We went 18 through a process. It was -- that cross- 19 acceptance report was where we endorsed by the 20 planning board two years ago, endorsed by the 21 freeholder board about two years ago and the 22 state planning commission just now is getting 23 around to having a public hearing on it. All 24 the objections and all the recommendations 25 that we made as county hopefully will be - 132 - 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 1/17/07 2 received by the state planning commission and 3 having it back on state plans. 4 Also, before we -- immediately 5 following our adjournment I have the digital 6 camera. I would like if everybody has five 7 minutes just to assemble for a photograph. We 8 update our website with materials from the 9 planning board. Whenever you'd like. It's 10 the private environment. 11 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: My hair 12 is all messy. 13 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I was going 14 to adjourn the meeting and then do it. 15 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Do I have a motion 16 to adjourn here? 17 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Motion. 18 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: Second. 19 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: All in favor? 20 ALL: Aye. 21 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: One more thing, I 22 wanted to thank Elaine for doing an excellent 23 job this year. 24 (Applause) 25 (Meeting was adjourned at 8:58 p.m.) - 133 - 1 2 I N D E X 3 4 E X H I B I T S 5 OTHER'S DESCRIPTION PAGE 6 A1 Colored version of 31 7 site plan 8 A2 Aerial rendering 33 9 of the site plan 10 A3 Four photographs - 36 11 two site line and two 12 aerial 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - 134 - 1 2 C E R T I F I C A T I O N 3 4 I, Mike Herman, Electronic Court Reporter 5 and Notary Public, do hereby certify that: 6 7 I was present during the entirety of the 8 foregoing proceedings, and that I caused to be 9 recorded a true, complete and verbatim 10 recording of the proceedings via digital 11 means, in the matter of the: 12 HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD MONTHLY MEETING. 13 14 I further certify that I am not employed 15 by nor related to any party to this action. 16 17 In witness whereof, I hereby sign this 18 date: 19 February 6, 2007. 20 21 _________________________________ 22 Mike Herman 23 24 25 - 135 - 1 2 C E R T I F I C A T I O N 3 4 I, Lisa Bar-Leib, hereby certify that the 5 foregoing is a true and correct transcription, 6 to the best of my ability, of the sound 7 recorded proceedings submitted for 8 transcription in the matter of the: 9 HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD MONTHLY MEETING. 10 11 I further certify that I am not employed 12 by nor related to any party to this action. 13 14 In witness whereof, I hereby sign this 15 date: 16 February 6, 2007. 17 18 _________________________________ 19 Lisa Bar-Leib 20 21 22 23 24 25