1 1 HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD 2 RE: ) 3 MONTHLY MEETING ) TRANSCRIPT OF ) PROCEEDINGS: 4 - - - - - - - - - - - - - ) County Annex Building 5 567 Pavonia Avenue Third Floor Freeholders Chambers 6 Jersey City, New Jersey Wednesday, February 21, 2007 7 6:30 p.m. BEFORE: 8 DANIEL CHOFFO, Chairman 9 JUDE FITZGIBBONS, Vice-Chair 10 MARY E. AVAGLIANO, Secretary 11 RENEE BETTINGER, Commissioner 12 HON. DOREEN DIDOMENICO, Freeholder 13 HON. JEFFREY DUBLIN, Freeholder 14 MICHAEL A. HOLLOWAY, Commissioner 15 BORIVOJ JASEK, PE, PP, Commissioner 16 KENNEDY NG, Commissioner 17 18 ALSO PRESENT: 19 JOHN J. COLLINS, ESQ., Board Attorney 20 STEPHEN MARKS, PP, AICP, Planning Director 21 22 Reported By: 23 Mark Weinberg 24 25 2 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Good evening. I'd 3 like to call to order the meeting of the 4 Hudson County Planning Board for February 5 21st, 2007. Counselor, has this meeting been 6 properly advertised? 7 MR. COLLINS: Yes, it has. 8 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Mr. Secretary? 9 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, notice of 10 this meeting was published in the Jersey 11 Journal and posted to the billboards of the 12 Hudson County clerk. The Hudson County clerk 13 and the Board of Chosen Freeholders and the 14 clerk of the city of Jersey City and 15 subscribed to the Open Public Meetings Act. 16 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Perfect. Can we 17 have a roll call, please? 18 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 19 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Here. 20 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 21 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Here. 22 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 23 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Here. 24 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Dublin? 25 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Here. 3 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 3 Fitzgibbons? 4 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Here. 5 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 6 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Here. 7 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Jasek? 8 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Present. 9 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Mehta? Mr. 10 Chairman, is not present. Commissioner NG? 11 COMMISSIONER NG: Here. 12 MR. MARKS: Chairman Choffo? 13 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Here. 14 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, we have a 15 quorum. 16 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Will everyone 17 stand to please salute the flag? 18 (Pledge of Allegiance) 19 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the first 20 order of business is adoption of the minutes 21 from the meeting on January 17th, 2007. 22 Everybody should have received their minutes. 23 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Anybody have any 24 questions? 25 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I make a 4 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 motion to accept the minutes as read. 3 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I second 4 it. 5 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a 6 motion to accept the minutes made by 7 Commissioner Fitzgibbons, seconded by 8 Commissioner Avagliano, Commissioner 9 Avagliano? 10 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 11 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 12 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Aye. 13 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 14 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 15 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Dublin? 16 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Abstain. 17 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 18 Fitzgibbons? 19 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 20 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 21 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 22 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Jasek? 23 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Aye. 24 MR. MARKS: Commissioner NG? 25 COMMISSIONER NG: Abstain. 5 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 MR. MARKS: Chairman Choffo? 3 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Aye. 4 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 5 passed. Mr. Chairman, the next order of 6 business is memorialization of resolutions 7 approved at last meeting. There are three. 8 Applications that were -- well, two from 9 January. One from December. There's still an 10 outstanding issue with regard to one of the 11 applications, SP-53-06. 12 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Would it be 13 possible to move that to the latter part of 14 the meeting? 15 MR. MARKS: Would that require a 16 vote of the board or --? 17 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Did you get a 18 chance to speak to the attorney? 19 MR. MARKS: He says it wouldn't 20 require an extra vote. Just to set it aside 21 for the back part of the meeting -- for the 22 end of the meeting. 23 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: All right. 24 MR. MARKS: So, Mr. Chairman, to 25 memorialize resolutions approved at last 6 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 meeting, NS-NP-02, Town of Harrison, which is 3 the Municipal Stormwater Management Plan, for 4 a house in New Jersey. And Application SD- 5 107-06, Liberty Harbor Holding, LLC, located 6 at 299 Morris Boulevard in Jersey City. 7 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Do I have a 8 motion? 9 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I'll make a 10 motion. 11 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I'll 12 second. 13 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a 14 motion to accept the memorialized resolutions 15 made by Commissioner Bettinger, seconded by 16 Commissioner Fitzgibbons, Commissioner 17 Avagliano? 18 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 19 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 20 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Aye. 21 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 22 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 23 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Dublin? 24 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Aye. 25 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 7 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 Fitzgibbons? 3 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 4 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 5 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 6 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Jasek? 7 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Aye. 8 MR. MARKS: Commissioner NG? 9 COMMISSIONER NG: Aye. 10 MR. MARKS: Chairman Choffo? 11 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Aye. 12 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 13 passed. Mr. Chairman, the next item is 14 applications declared to be exempt beginning 15 with Application SD-04-07, G&S 16 Investors/Jersey City, LP, located at 396-430 17 Marin Boulevard in Jersey City, New Jersey; 18 Application SP-05-06 (sic), Sims Hugo Neu 19 East, located at 1 Linden Avenue in Jersey 20 City, New Jersey; Application SP-06-07, 21 Omnipoint Communications, Inc., located at 300 22 Washington Street in Hoboken, New Jersey; and 23 Application SP-10-07, Hess Corporation, 24 located at 685 New Jersey Route 440 in Jersey 25 City, New Jersey. 8 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Do I have a 3 motion? 4 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I'll make a 5 motion to declare these applications exempt. 6 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: I second. 7 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a 8 motion made by Commissioner Bettinger, 9 seconded by Commissioner Dublin, Commissioner 10 Avagliano? 11 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 12 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 13 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Aye. 14 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 15 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 16 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Dublin? 17 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Aye. 18 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 19 Fitzgibbons? 20 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 21 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 22 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 23 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Jasek? 24 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Aye. 25 MR. MARKS: Commissioner NG? 9 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 COMMISSIONER NG: Aye. 3 MR. MARKS: Chairman Choffo? 4 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Aye. 5 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 6 passed. Mr. Chairman, the first application 7 scheduled for public hearing this evening is 8 MSMP-03 for the town of Secaucus, which is the 9 Municipal Stormwater Management Plan for 10 Secaucus, New Jersey. Mr. Chairman, in your 11 packages this evening is a letter from Karen 12 Dillan of PMK Group. The PMK Group or PMK 13 Engineering Company had prepared the Municipal 14 Stormwater Management Plan for the town of 15 Secaucus. They were planning to be here this 16 evening to explain the town's stormwater plan 17 and have it accepted. However, the town of 18 Secaucus, kind of coincidentally, received 19 notice from the division of the Department of 20 Environmental Protection that they were coming 21 in -- the DEP's inspectors were coming in for 22 a stormwater inspection tomorrow, so the 23 engineers who had prepared the stormwater plan 24 had to go and assist the town prepare for the 25 inspection tomorrow. So the request from 10 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 PMK -- Karen Dillan of PMK is to have the 3 application adjourned until next meeting or 4 held until next meeting. 5 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Would anyone make 6 a motion to adjourn this? 7 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I make a 8 motion to table -- 9 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I'll second 10 it. 11 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a 12 motion to table MSMP-03 for the Town of 13 Secaucus made by Commissioner Fitzgibbons, 14 seconded by Commissioner Avagliano, 15 Commissioner Avagliano? 16 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 17 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 18 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Aye. 19 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 20 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 21 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Dublin? 22 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Aye. 23 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 24 Fitzgibbons? 25 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 11 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 3 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 4 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Jasek? 5 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Aye. 6 MR. MARKS: Commissioner NG? 7 COMMISSIONER NG: Aye. 8 MR. MARKS: Chairman Choffo? 9 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Aye. 10 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 11 passed. Mr. Chairman, the next application 12 scheduled for public hearing this evening is 13 SP-69-06, Church Hill Road, LLC, located at 14 Church Hill Road and River Road in North 15 Bergen. 16 MR. COLLINS: Please state your name 17 and spell it, please. 18 MS. BERKENWALD: Elaine Berkenwald, 19 B-E-R-K-E-N-W-A-L-D, from the law office of 20 Dennis Oury, O-U-R-Y, representing Church Hill 21 Road, LLC. We were here last month. I 22 believe we addressed a lot of comments that 23 were made. I have Calisto Bertin if this 24 board has any questions. He's the engineer. 25 We also have the general contractor but I'm 12 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 not presenting him. If the board has 3 questions, he's here. 4 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Yeah, you may 5 proceed. 6 MS. BERKENWALD: Calisto Bertin? 7 MR. COLLINS: Please state your name 8 and spell it for the record. 9 MR. BERTIN: Calisto Bertin, C-A-L- 10 I-S-T-O B-E-R-T-I-N. 11 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Excuse me, Mr. 12 Bertin, one second. Steve, was that passed 13 out to all the board members? 14 MR. MARKS: Which? 15 MR. CHOFFO: In the packet? This 16 application. 17 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman this 18 application was actually heard last month. It 19 was tabled pending some information that was 20 needed -- related to, I believe, site plan -- 21 I mean -- 22 MR. BERTIN: Easements? 23 MR. MARKS: Easements. 24 MR. BERTIN: They were -- when I'm 25 ready, I'll explain what was missing. 13 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: All right. 3 MR. MARKS: So it's a continuance 4 from last month. It didn't make it out in the 5 package. The materials that the board 6 continued or tabled the application related to 7 only came in after the board packets went out. 8 That's why it didn't make it into the board 9 packets. 10 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: All right. 11 C A L I S T O B E R T I N, having been first 12 duly sworn according to law, testified as 13 follows: 14 MR. BERTIN: When we were here last 15 we presented the plan and obviously -- put 16 this up -- this was exhibit A1 that was 17 discussed last time. And if you recall, 18 what's shown in grey here is Church Hill Road. 19 It's on the north end of North Bergen off of 20 River Road. And River Road is down at the 21 bottom of the page, just to refresh everyone's 22 memory. .And there are two sets of buildings 23 being built. Church Hill Road is a very 24 narrow road. It's being widened twenty-four 25 feet wide at the mouth. And then as we get up 14 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 the hill, it's twenty-eight feet wide in 3 accordance with RSI standards because we 4 provide on street parking. There's one 5 building with fifty-four units. It's a mid- 6 rise or actually just -- it's a high rise 7 building. And then there's nine townhouses. 8 So we are improving Church Hill Road. 9 There were three issues that came up 10 last time. The engineering department 11 received a photograph about some stormwater 12 that was running onto River Road. Second, 13 there was some concern about easements because 14 we do have to acquire easements from -- or 15 dedications from some of the adjoining 16 property owners to widen the road. And then 17 the third comment that came out was a concern 18 about sight distance at the intersection. 19 Now, we have some people here but 20 I -- we explained at the hearing that there's 21 a lot of runoff from the mountain above us. 22 We're out on the Palisades so there's a lot of 23 runoff. We are collecting that -- the runoff 24 from up on top of the hill along the entire 25 property, channeling it and inspectors from 15 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 the engineer's department have been out there 3 and I'm under the impression from my 4 conversation with Demetrio yesterday that 5 everybody is satisfied that -- well, that 6 particular problem did not originate from our 7 site but that the work being done on the 8 property is in accordance with the -- you 9 know, erosion control measures and we are 10 controlling the drainage. 11 So, if there's any comment on 12 drainage, we'll finish that before we move to 13 the next topic. 14 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Mr. Chairman, I 15 have a comment on the drainage. Could you 16 demonstrate to us what you're going to do with 17 the drainage from your property? 18 MR. BERTIN: Yes. The drainage on 19 our property and -- is being collected on 20 site. We have several detention systems. For 21 the townhouses and the land behind it, there's 22 underground pipes running behind the 23 buildings. For the larger buildings, there's 24 an underground system in front of the 25 building. So, that water's being collected 16 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 and it's going to be put into a new drainage 3 system in Church Hill Road. There is no 4 drainage system now. So we start off at the 5 top of the hill and we put a whole new 6 drainage system in and connect it to the 7 existing drainage system in River Road. We're 8 also making improvements at the mouth of River 9 Road -- I mean, at the mouth of Church Hill 10 Road -- 'cause we're improving the road. 11 We're going to put in additional inlets which 12 there's just a yard drain in the middle of the 13 street now. We'll put in -- that's on either 14 curb and then bring that into the River Road 15 drainage system. 16 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Could you 17 refresh my memory on the existing drainage on 18 River Road where you're going to connect this 19 quite substantial amount of the runoff? 20 MR. BERTIN: We are bringing a 21 fifteen inch pipe down Church Hill Road. 22 That's the normal minimum standard for a 23 municipal system. And then we're going to tie 24 into a manhole at the mouth of Church Hill 25 Road. Actually, there's an inlet there; we're 17 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 going to reconstruct it to a manhole. From 3 that inlet, there's a twelve inch pipe that 4 connects into River Road. We were going to 5 upgrade that twelve inch pipe to a fifteen 6 inch pipe. And all of that is shown on 7 Drawing 5.1 of the site plan set that was 8 submitted -- all the River Road and Church 9 Hill Road improvements. 10 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Mr. Bertin, can 11 you mark that as an exhibit? 12 MR. BERTIN: Yes, this is marked as 13 Exhibit A1 that was presented last month. And 14 I'll leave this with you when we're done 15 tonight. A1 is a colored version of the site 16 plan. 17 MR. JASEK: Do you know, Mr. Bertin, 18 where the new fifteen inch pipe will be 19 connected? Into what pipe? 20 MR. BERTIN: I believe it's a 21 thirty-six inch pipe. I don't recall and it's 22 not shown on our plan -- that runs north and 23 south in River Road. There's a manhole just 24 off the curb line. 25 COMMISSIONER JASEK: On the opposite 18 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 side of Church Hill Road? 3 MR. BERTIN: No. Opposite side of 4 Church -- no, no. It's -- it's about ten feet 5 off the west curb in River Road. 6 COMMISSIONER JASEK: I see. 7 MR. BERTIN: And I'm going to show 8 you approximately -- there's a manhole there. 9 And we're going to tie into -- from the 10 manhole at the mouth of River Road -- mouth of 11 Church Hill Road, replace the twelve inch pipe 12 with a fifteen inch pipe that exists today. 13 COMMISSIONER JASEK: I see. Did you 14 make any calculation on the composite area of 15 these pipes? 16 MR. BERTIN: Yes. There -- our 17 drainage report was prepared and submitted. 18 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Could I ask our 19 consultant if they evaluated and if they are 20 satisfied with that? 21 MR. KLEIN: Yes. Lee Klein, K-L-E- 22 I-N, with T&M Associates. We drafted a letter 23 September 1st, 2006 and then we had revisions. 24 I believe that the two grading and drainage 25 comments, 2.1 and 2.2, have been addressed. 19 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Thank you. 3 Thank you. That satisfies me for the drainage 4 item. Would you -- one more -- would you 5 consider the trench drain across the mouth of 6 the Church Hill Road? So if there is a heavy 7 rain, it's not going to run the river down to 8 the River Road? 9 MR. BERTIN: Yes. That's the short 10 answer. The long answer is we do put a crown 11 in the new Church Hill Road and we have inlets 12 -- actually, we have double inlets on the one 13 side and single inlet on the other side. But 14 if you want a trench drain in addition to all 15 that -- whatever you want, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Yes. I would 17 prefer that. 18 MR. BERTIN: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Thank you. 20 MR. BERTIN: And we just sent the 21 plan to the printers this morning. Okay. 22 Anyway, so the issue about dumping stormwater 23 onto the street was an issue that was caused 24 uphill from us and as this project progresses, 25 we are collecting all that water so that won't 20 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 happen. Okay? So, that ends the issue on the 3 drainage. 4 There was a concern about sight 5 visibility at Church Hill Road, in part 6 because plywood was put up -- a construction 7 fence was put up on the adjoining lot to the 8 south of us. And that was done, actually, in 9 conjunction with a municipal engineer and our 10 contractor because they thought it would be 11 good to hide all the construction equipment 12 that's stored on that lot. Well, that's when 13 your inspector said, hey, we have a sight 14 distance problem. That plywood has been 15 removed. So it's not blocking visibility and 16 in short time, there will be no fence there. 17 But anyway, right now that plywood has been 18 removed. 19 On the property to the north of us 20 is a used car dealership. By the way, the 21 property on the south side of us is vacant -- 22 south side of Church Hill Road. 23 The property on the north side of 24 Church Hill Road has a used car lot and it has 25 an eight foot chain link fence around it. The 21 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 post to that fence is just outside the 3 required sight triangle. That is shown on our 4 plans. But we also have talked with the owner 5 of that property and he is amenable to making 6 changes to the fence. So I'm here to 7 represent to you that we will pull that fence 8 back -- actually, we're trying to convince him 9 to go from an eight foot fence to a four foot 10 fence but I guess he wants to protect his 11 cars. 12 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Is this the 13 property that you were trying to get easements 14 and dedications to also? 15 MR. BERTIN: Yes. That's the next 16 thing -- 17 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: All Right. 18 MR. BERTIN: -- we'll go into if 19 we're happy with the sight triangles. Are 20 you -- do you want to comment on it? I guess 21 we're happy with the sight triangle. So -- 22 and I mentioned -- okay. 23 We'll move into the next topic which 24 is -- 25 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: One second. Mr. 22 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 Jasek, are you okay with the sight triangle? 3 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Yes, Mr. Chairman. 4 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman? Just one 5 point of -- or one housekeeping item. In your 6 packets this evening is a package of 7 correspondence and it's an eighteen-page fax 8 from the law offices of Dennis Oury. Elaine 9 Berkenwald, who's the attorney for the client, 10 so there's reference in your packets to that. 11 That's the agreements related to the site 12 plan. 13 MR. BERTIN: All right. Now, in 14 acquiring the easements or the right-of-way 15 dedications to do the Church Hill Road 16 improvements, we were moving along, probably 17 slower than we should have, but we were moving 18 along with those and that became an issue 19 before this board. The car dealership on the 20 north side of Church Hill Road -- we're 21 required to get a little triangle property 22 from him because the road bed is actually on 23 his property. He has signed an agreement to 24 dedicate that road to the municipality. That 25 will be dedicated to North Bergen. Also, to 23 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 construct Church Hill Road as we go up the 3 hill, we have to build a new retaining wall. 4 It's a rubber wall now and we've acquired a 5 strip of land along the back of his property 6 to put that wall on. That agreement has been 7 submitted as well. We -- or the applicant is 8 dedicating land. That paperwork is still in 9 the process but obviously, it's under our 10 control to dedicate the land along Church Hill 11 Road to make the widening. 12 The only parcel left is the piece of 13 property, that vacant lot that I said was on 14 the south side of Church Hill Road. It's a 15 little bit more involved project because there 16 are working agreements between the two 17 parties. I'm telling you, I represent and 18 Dennis Oury's office represents the contract 19 purchaser of this property. And we both 20 represented the seller of that property. He 21 is under -- he, the contract purchaser, is 22 under an obligation to prepare and submit a 23 site plan, which is already prepared and 24 sitting in my office. We have to work -- 25 we're just -- and next Tuesday, when 24 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 everyone's back from vacation, we will 3 finalize that agreement or the engineering 4 portion of that agreement for that widening. 5 But I can tell you right now, the curb or the 6 roadway widening can take place without any 7 agreement with this property owner but we need 8 his cooperation to put the sidewalk in. And 9 that's the only -- that the right-of-way 10 dedication -- or actually, an easement that we 11 were going to acquire from the property on the 12 south of River Road for the sidewalk. But the 13 roadway bed is already resolved. So that 14 answers that third portion of the puzzle. 15 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Because the last 16 time you were here they weren't in place. It 17 was all -- 18 MR. BERTIN: Correct. 19 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: -- ready -- all 20 right. 21 MS. BERKENWALD: We finally got them 22 the signed agreement. It's dated February 23 7th. It was submitted and reviewed by your 24 attorney and so now we've got it in place. We 25 did not have it in January. That's one of the 25 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 reasons you tabled this application. 3 MR. BERTIN: So, with that, we -- I 4 guess we finished -- there were a few items 5 that we were asked to do in the report that we 6 got from T&M Associates which we've already 7 incorporated in our plans. We just didn't 8 submit the plans. We were waiting for 9 tonight. And we have one more -- one more 10 change to make and we will submit those -- 11 some details. That's all, really, it was. 12 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Any other 13 questions, Commissioners? 14 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Mr. Chairman, 15 there was a -- last time -- long discussion on 16 the left turn and -- from the property and 17 left turn into the property. Can it be 18 cleared out from the applicant what's the 19 final on that? 20 MR. BERTIN: Okay. At present, we 21 are not restricting turns out of Church Hill 22 Road. There will be left turns allowed. T&M 23 Associates again reviewed our traffic study. 24 We made some modifications and they found it 25 acceptable. We found it acceptable. There is 26 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 a caveat in the approval for this project from 3 North Bergen that says if a traffic light is 4 needed, they are obligated to -- at some -- to 5 some level participate in installing a traffic 6 light. But at this point, it's not needed. 7 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Mr. Klein, do you 8 have any questions -- I'm sorry. 9 COMMISSIONER JASEK: About this 10 possibility of the traffic light, yes, we 11 heard that before and when it came to that, 12 nobody claims the ownership because the 13 original owner sell it to the condominium and 14 so far and so far. So it didn't work in past. 15 I don't believe that there is a need for a 16 traffic light at this point, but if there 17 should be any additional development or any 18 development connected to this, then it would 19 need a traffic light. In the meantime, you 20 will put a stop sign there, right? 21 MR. BERTIN: Oh, yes. There's a 22 stop sign there now but we will, in the plan, 23 show a new stop sign. But it doesn't meet the 24 -- it, meaning, the intersection doesn't meet 25 the warrants for a traffic light because there 27 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 is very little traffic or with these projects 3 on Church Hill so it doesn't meet the 4 threshold that the state sets out for 5 warranting a traffic light. 6 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Mr. Chairman, I 7 just want anybody to remember that when people 8 are complaining that they cannot get out. 9 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Did you have any 10 comments, Mr. Klein -- 11 MR. KLEIN: Not really. 12 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: -- with regard 13 to -- 14 MR. KLEIN: I just echo the comments 15 from Mr. Bertin that the signal is not 16 warranted at this location. They did a gap 17 analysis study, Mr. Jasek, and it turns out 18 there were sufficient gaps to make left turns 19 out. I think also because River Road has that 20 left lane on it, people can do a two-stage 21 left turn. Right now there's the striping, 22 striping in the center for a left turn into 23 Church Hill. You can make a two-stage to come 24 out and wait for traffic. 25 MR. BERTIN: And part of our 28 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 application -- I'm just showing you Exhibit A2 3 that was submitted last month, which shows 4 River Road running up the center of the -- 5 this is an aerial photograph. And we are 6 proposing re-striping to that center striped 7 median to allow a left turn in -- to create a 8 left turn lane in and to what we call a 9 staging lane for people to come out 'cause 10 that's how people exit Church Hill Road now. 11 And many of the properties along River Road 12 when they make a left out, they first make a 13 left into the center stripe median and then 14 continue on. That's part of the application. 15 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: When 16 they're making a left hand turn, they're going 17 across two lanes? 18 MR. BERTIN: Yes. They're going 19 across two lanes -- so -- what the center 20 median allows you to do is that we only have 21 to worry about gaps in one direction. So the 22 traffic light that's shown at the top of this 23 page -- the name of the road is escaping me. 24 That's actually in Edgewater. When that light 25 is red there's no southbound traffic, or very 29 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 little southbound traffic, which allows 3 someone from the site to pull into that 4 median. All right? And then it's just a 5 matter of the next traffic light, which I 6 think is Hillside Avenue or -- just below this 7 page there's another traffic light that will 8 stop traffic heading northbound. But it's -- 9 there's a lot of traffic on River Road. 10 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Yes, I 11 know. That's why I was questioning if you 12 could make a left hand turn. 13 MR. BERTIN: Well, we do it. That's 14 how the contractors do it and I do it when I 15 go into the site. 16 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Mr. Chairman, 17 just the one last note to the -- especially to 18 the contractor. Before you start making any 19 changes in the striping, come for the permit 20 in my office and we will tell you exactly how 21 to remove those stripes because those are 22 embedded in the asphalt. 23 MR. BERTIN: Okay. So it's a road 24 opening permit basically -- 25 COMMISSIONER JASEK: That's right. 30 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 MR. BERTIN: -- to remove the 3 stripes? 4 COMMISSIONER JASEK: That's correct. 5 Thank you. 6 MR. BERTIN: Thank you. 7 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Any other 8 questions? 9 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: I will. Mr. 10 Jasek, you believe that there's no light 11 necessary on that spot there? 12 COMMISSIONER JASEK: At this point, 13 I believe it's not warranted because seven 14 years ago when we rebuilt River Road, they 15 designed it such a way that we have two 16 traffic lanes in each direction and a fifth 17 traffic lane in the middle specifically for 18 making left turn into the residences and 19 businesses along that road. 20 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Mr. Bertin, I have 21 a question actually. The neighboring property 22 that you're involved in, is that going to be 23 another project? 24 MR. BERTIN: Yes, it will be. 25 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Residential? 31 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 MR. BERTIN: Yes, it will be. 3 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Do you know how 4 many units? 5 MR. BERTIN: He's contractually 6 obligated to go for thirty units. I feel that 7 it'll be -- he'll get fifteen units. That's 8 what I feel 'cause he's got a contractual 9 obligation which he has to move forward with 10 but he's not going to get that kind of density 11 because I know -- well, no one's here from 12 North Bergen right now but he won't get it. 13 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Any other 14 questions, Commissioner Holloway? 15 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: No. 16 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Do I have a 17 motion? Freeholder Dublin? 18 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I second. 19 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a 20 motion to approve Application SP-69--06, made 21 by Commissioner Dublin, seconded by 22 Commissioner Fitzgibbons, Commissioner 23 Avagliano? 24 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I vote aye. 25 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 32 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I vote aye. 3 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 4 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 5 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Dublin? 6 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Aye. 7 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 8 Fitzgibbons? 9 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 10 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 11 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: I abstain. 12 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Jasek? 13 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Aye. 14 MR. MARKS: Commissioner NG? 15 COMMISSIONER NG: Abstain. 16 MR. MARKS: Chairman Choffo? 17 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I vote aye. 18 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 19 passed. 20 MS. BERKENWALD: Thank you very 21 much. 22 MR. BERTIN: Thank you very much. 23 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the next 24 application scheduled for public hearing is 25 SP/SD-93-06, Roseland/Port Imperial, LLC, 33 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 located at Block 168.01, Lots 7.02 and 8 in 3 the town of West New York. Mr. Chairman, in 4 your packages this evening is a letter from 5 Joseph Daly of the law firm of Weiner Lesniak. 6 They were originally scheduled for public 7 hearing in January and it was my 8 understanding -- my misunderstanding that they 9 were requesting a one month adjournment. In 10 the text of the letter, it was actually a two- 11 month adjournment. They requested to be -- 12 that their application be postponed until 13 March. So it wasn't the fault of the 14 applicant and I take sole responsibility for 15 making that error and I ask that the board 16 accept Mr. Daly's request. 17 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Do I have a motion 18 to adjourn this application? 19 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: I'll move 20 that. 21 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Second. 22 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: We're going 23 to table it till the next month? 24 MR. MARKS: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: You want a 34 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 motion? 3 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: I'll second. 4 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a 5 motion to table Application SP/SD-93-06, made 6 by Commissioner DiDomenico, seconded by 7 Commissioner Dublin, Commissioner Arencibia -- 8 I'm sorry. Arencibia is not here. 9 Commissioner Avagliano? 10 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 11 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 12 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Aye. 13 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 14 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 15 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Dublin? 16 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Aye. 17 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 18 Fitzgibbons? 19 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 20 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 21 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 22 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Jasek? 23 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Aye. 24 MR. MARKS: Commissioner NG? 25 COMMISSIONER NG: Aye. 35 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 MR. MARKS: Chairman Choffo? 3 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Aye. 4 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 5 passed. Mr. Chairman, the next application 6 scheduled for public hearing is SD-108-06, 7 Grand LHN II Urban Renewal LLC, located at 8 Grand Street and Luis Marin Boulevard in 9 Jersey City. 10 MR. HARRINGTON: Good evening. Mr. 11 Chairman, Commissioners, Charles Harrington of 12 Connell Foley on behalf of the applicant. 13 MR. COLLINS: Please state your name 14 and spell it for the record, please? 15 MR. HARRINGTON: It's Charles 16 Harrington. Charles, C-H-A-R-L-E-S, 17 Harrington, H-A-R-R-I-N-G-T-O-N. Yeah, I 18 represent the applicant here tonight who is 19 also the designated developer of this site. 20 This property is located in Jersey City at the 21 corner of Marin Boulevard and Grand Street. 22 It's located in what's commonly, well, not 23 commonly, but what's referred to as the 24 Liberty Harbor North Redevelopment Plan area. 25 We are seeking major subdivision approval from 36 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 the board tonight. 3 The reason we are seeking a major 4 subdivision approval is because we are 5 creating one development lot and two rights- 6 of-way. Just briefly to give you an overview, 7 this will be the development lot. It's called 8 New Block A. We are creating a street called 9 Road A on this subdivision map. That will 10 separate this development lot from the Boys 11 and Girls Club which is over here to the west. 12 And then there is a little sliver along Marin 13 Boulevard that we're creating because we're 14 going to extend the right-of-way on Marin 15 Boulevard. 16 This site received the local 17 approval from the Jersey City Planning Board 18 in September of 2006. At that time, it also 19 received preliminary site plan approval for 20 349 units and there will be 353 parking spaces 21 on site. It's a series of -- well, it's one 22 building but it steps down -- or steps up, 23 really. It's a four story building, eight 24 stories and ultimately sixteen stories. Just 25 to give you a background again, along Grand 37 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 Street, it's going to have a townhouse style 3 to fit in with the other townhouses along 4 Grand Street downtown. 5 The property is not on a county road 6 nor do I believe it affects any county 7 drainage but because it is a major subdivision 8 we're here before you tonight asking for your 9 review and approval. 10 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Go head, Steve. 11 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, for the 12 record, would Mr. Harrington just identify the 13 sheet that he's reading from? 14 MR. HARRINGTON: This is sheet 1 of 15 1 entitled Preliminary/Final Major Subdivision 16 Liberty Harbor North Block 7. It's prepared 17 by LGA Engineering, Inc. 18 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Any questions? 19 COMMISSIONER JASEK: No questions. 20 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Any questions? 21 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I'll make a 22 motion. 23 COMMISSIONER NG: Second. 24 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a 25 motion to accept SD-108-06, made by 38 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 Commissioner Bettinger, seconded by 3 Commissioner NG, Commissioner Avagliano? 4 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I vote aye. 5 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 6 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Aye. 7 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 8 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 9 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Dublin? 10 Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Dublin is not 11 present. Commissioner Fitzgibbons? 12 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 13 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 14 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 15 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Jasek? 16 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Aye. 17 MR. MARKS: Commissioner NG? 18 COMMISSIONER NG: Aye. 19 MR. MARKS: Chairman Choffo? 20 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I vote aye. 21 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 22 passed. 23 MR. HARRINGTON: Thank you. 24 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the next 25 application scheduled for public hearing is 39 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 SD-02-07, Cameron Bayonne, LLC, located at 3 Block 453.01, Lots 2, 5, 6, 7 and 9 and Block 4 503, Lot 9.01 in the city of Bayonne. 5 MR. COLLINS: Please state your name 6 for the record and spell it, please. 7 MR. BREEN: Sure. Good evening. 8 Mr. Chairman, members of the board, I'm Mike 9 Breen from Price, Meese, Shulman and 10 D'Arminio. Michael Breen is M-I-C-H-A-E-L, 11 last name Breen, B, as in boy, R-E-E-N. 12 MR. COLLINS: Thank you. 13 MR. BREEN: Thank you. I'm 14 appearing this evening on behalf of the 15 applicant, Cameron Bayonne, LLC. Cameron 16 Bayonne has filed this application for a 17 subdivision approval in furtherance of its 18 development of the Bayonne Crossing retail 19 center. Bayonne Crossing as proposed is a 20 commercial retail shopping center comprising 21 approximately 358,000 square feet and will be 22 located on approximately twenty-nine acres 23 within the Route 440 Carter East redevelopment 24 zone within Bayonne. 25 On December 12th of 2006, Bayonne 40 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 Planning Board granted the project preliminary 3 and final major subdivision approval and major 4 site plan approval. 5 As part of the development of the 6 center, Cameron Bayonne proposes to 7 resubdivide the subject tract of land in order 8 to rationalize the lot pattern and create a 9 development and a remainder parcel. In 10 support of the subdivision application this 11 evening, we will provide testimony from Eric 12 Alderman who is a principal of Cameron Bayonne 13 who will provide a brief description and 14 overview of the project and also testimony 15 from Brian Waisnor who is a licensed 16 professional engineer from Langan Engineering 17 who will provide details regarding the 18 proposed subdivision. 19 At this time I would like to ask Mr. 20 Eric Alderman to step up and provide a brief 21 description and overview of the Bayonne 22 Crossing project. 23 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Do you mind 24 swearing him in, Counsel? 25 MR. ALDERMAN: Good evening. 41 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 MR. COLLINS: Please state your name 3 and spell it for the record, please. 4 MR. ALDERMAN: Eric, E-R-I-C, M. 5 Alderman, A-L-D-E-R-M-A-N. 6 E R I C A L D E R M A N, having been first 7 duly sworn according to law, testified as 8 follows: 9 MR. ALDERMAN: Good evening. I'd 10 like to try to make this as brief as we can. 11 This first -- 12 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I'm sorry. Could 13 you just mark that Exhibit. 14 MR. BREEN: Mr. Chairman, I'll mark 15 this A-1. 16 (Aerial photograph of Route 440, New Hook 17 Access Road and East 22nd Street marked as 18 Applicant's Exhibit A-1 for identification, as 19 of this date.) 20 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Thank you. 21 MR. ALDERMAN: This first exhibit is 22 an aerial photograph showing Route 440, New 23 Hook Access Road and East 22nd Street, which 24 are the streets bordering the project site and 25 this is the current condition of the property 42 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 which, as you can see, is centrally located in 3 a heavy industrial district. The history of 4 the project land is that it's part of the 5 Layer Hook in Bayonne which was originally 6 developed by Standard Oil of New Jersey as a 7 refinery distribution center and for years was 8 used among other things for the dumping of 9 waste oils and products on this site. One of 10 the keynotes of project site is that we will 11 be acquiring a great deal of property, the 12 central piece of property, here in part of the 13 subdivision that Mr. Waisnor will speak about 14 from NGC Chemicals Inc., formerly known as 15 Asahi Glass, and for whom the predecessor in 16 interest ownership was ICI Chemicals Inc. 17 It's a heavily contaminated site, was made 18 part of a redevelopment area by the city of 19 Bayonne pursuant to redevelopment plan in 20 2005. In 2006, it was designated as a 21 Brownfield development area by the New Jersey 22 Department of Environmental Protection. And 23 in 2006 Cameron Bayonne was designated as the 24 new developer for the project. 25 What we hope to do starting very 43 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 soon this spring is to turn that into this. 3 This is a rendered site plan which shows the 4 layout of the property. The layout of the 5 proposed buildings which were approved is part 6 of the major site plan approval by the 7 planning board, the City of Bayonne December 8 12th and shows that it provides what's 9 relatively known in our industry as a big box 10 retail development which the city of Bayonne 11 had designated as the preferred use for this 12 property on the redevelopment plan. It's also 13 a project that kicks off a major redevelopment 14 and economic revitalization plan for the city 15 of Bayonne. This project will when completed 16 over the next eighteen months create 900 full- 17 time equivalent jobs. It will increase the 18 tax base in Bayonne, real property tax base, 19 by two million dollars. It will provide four 20 million dollars annually in sales tax to the 21 city of Bayonne. And we -- Brian will talk 22 about it more definitively. The subdivision 23 occurs -- concerning yachts two of which are 24 owned by Cameron Bayonne already, the balance 25 of which are owned by AGC Chemicals and 44 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 provide the real or eastern boundary line of 3 the property separating the project land from 4 AGC Chemicals. 5 If there are not any questions for 6 me, I'll let Brian get to the technical 7 aspect. 8 MR. HOLLOWAY: Mr. Chairman, I have 9 one question. 10 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: The site is 12 contaminated? 13 MR. ALDERMAN: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Was it 15 cleaned? 16 MR. ALDERMAN: No. We're cleaning 17 it. 18 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: You'll clean 19 it? 20 MR. ALDERMAN: Yeah. One thing I 21 failed to mention. There was an existing 22 remedial action work plan that had been 23 preliminarily approved for Exxon Mobil to 24 undertake who has entered into an ACR with the 25 New Jersey Department of Environmental 45 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 Protection. That remedial action work plan 3 would have resulted in the seventeen acre site 4 of the primary pollution in this area being 5 encapsulated within a stone wall with a 6 thirty-five foot mound of contaminated soil 7 kept by some artificial cap rendering this 8 property unusable forever. It would have 9 essentially made it into a landfill and a 10 primary development area of Bayonne thus 11 limiting the growth of the city. Our project 12 has -- because we've got a unified use and 13 we're acquiring all the parcels without regard 14 to boundary lines, we've been able to propose 15 a more sophisticated and more highly usable 16 remedial action work plan which has received 17 preliminary scoping approval by the NGDPN. 18 We're waiting final approval, hopefully in the 19 next four to six weeks. 20 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Any other 21 questions? 22 MR. ALDERMAN: Okay. Brian? Mr. 23 Waisnor from Langan Engineering. 24 MR. WAISNOR: For the record, my 25 name is Brian Waisnor, W-A-I-S-N-O-R. I'm a 46 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 professional engineer in the state of New 3 Jersey employed by Langan Engineering. 4 B R I A N W A I S N O R, having been first 5 duly sworn according to law, testified as 6 follows: 7 MR. WAISNOR: Picking up where Mr. 8 Alderman left off, just go back to Exhibit A1. 9 I'd just like to point out that Route 440 is a 10 state highway. That's the boundary of the 11 property to the west. To the north is New 12 Hook Access Road. That's a city street. And 13 to the south is East 22nd Street. That's also 14 a city street. 15 The property has been designated by 16 the city as a redevelopment area. There's a 17 specific redevelopment plan for this area 18 defined by New Hook Access Road, East 22nd, 19 Route 440 and the industrial property to the 20 east. 21 The line that differentiates the 22 redevelopment property from the industrial 23 property to the east was chosen based on 24 maximizing the redevelopment of the vacant 25 land against Route 440, and as such it was not 47 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 determined based on existing property lines. 3 it was determined rather based on maximizing 4 the growth and development of the area. 5 MR. HARRINGTON: Mr. Chairman, I'll 6 mark this one A3. 7 (Copy of subdivision map hereby marked as 8 Applicant's Exhibit A-3 for identification, as 9 of this date.) 10 MR. WAISNOR: Exhibit A-3 is a copy 11 of the subdivision, the subdivision map -- 12 proposed subdivision that was submitted as 13 part of our application so I can try to 14 explain it a little easier to you. Basically, 15 because the redevelopment line was chosen 16 based on existing land use, this dark line 17 running through the middle where the color 18 sort of changed is actually the edge of the 19 redevelopment area. 20 MR. HARRINGTON: This line here. 21 MR. WAISNOR: That line transects 22 six different lots. The lots are Block 23 453.01, Lot 2. That's the dark purple area, 24 the largest area here and here. Block 453.01, 25 Lot 5, which is the turquoise. It's the long 48 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 skinny lot running all the way up here. Block 3 453.01, Lot 6.01. That's the small arrowhead 4 shaped lot in here. Block 453.01, Lot 7.01. 5 That's the yellow lot, this large one here and 6 a small piece left over there. Block 453.01, 7 9.01. That's the red triangular piece here. 8 And lastly, Block 503, Lot 9.02, that's the 9 blue conrail piece on the end. 10 (Copy of subdivision map proposed 11 consolidation hereby marked as Applicant's 12 Exhibit A-4 for identification, as of this 13 date.) 14 One last exhibit. This last 15 exhibit, marked A-4, is a copy of the 16 subdivision map proposed consolidation. And 17 what it shows is that all the lots east -- I'm 18 sorry, all the lots west of that boundary line 19 will be consolidated into one lot and block 20 proposed as Block 453.01, Lot 1.01 existing at 21 29.067 acres which form the boundary for the 22 redevelopment of the parcel previously 23 described by Mr. Alderman. The remaining lots 24 to the east will be consolidated once they are 25 under common ownership. Right now they're 49 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 under three different owners. 3 If you have any questions I'll be 4 happy -- 5 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Very colorful. 6 MR. WAISNOR: Thank you. 7 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Very colorful. 8 MR. WAISNOR: I hope no one's color 9 blind. 10 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Any questions? Do 11 I have a motion? 12 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I'll make a 13 motion. 14 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I'll 15 second it. 16 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a 17 motion to accept SD-02-07 made by Commissioner 18 Bettinger, seconded by Commissioner 19 Fitzgibbons, Commissioner Avagliano? 20 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I vote aye. 21 It's an excellent application and it's a good 22 setoff for Bayonne and it's a good project for 23 Bayonne to help them get off where they want 24 to get off. Congratulations to you fellas for 25 a great plan. 50 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 MR. WAISNOR: Thank you. 3 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 4 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I vote aye 5 and I'd like to comment that you did a great 6 job on the presentation. 7 MR. MARKS: Commissioner DiDomenico? 8 COMMISSIONER DIDOMENICO: Aye. 9 MR. MARKS: Commissioner 10 Fitzgibbons? 11 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I vote 12 aye and anytime you can change a contaminated 13 use into a commercial use and useful use for 14 the -- not only for Bayonne but for the 15 county, it's a good project and Bayonne should 16 be commended for it. 17 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 18 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Yes. 19 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Jasek? 20 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Aye. 21 MR. MARKS: Commissioner NG? 22 COMMISSIONER NG: Aye. 23 MR. MARKS: Chairman Choffo? 24 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I vote aye. Good 25 luck. 51 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 MR. WAISNOR: Thank you. 3 MR. BREEN: Thank you very much. 4 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, if we 5 could return to the memorialization. 6 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Yes. 7 MR. MARKS: If we can return to the 8 memorialization of Application SP-53-06, SKR 9 Realty, LLC/Candlewood Suites, located at 279 10 Secaucus Road in Secaucus, New Jersey. 11 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: How are you? 12 MR. FRIEDMAN: Okay. How are you? 13 Thanks for having me back. I think we're 14 almost there. Over the past five weeks -- 15 MR. COLLINS: Please state your name 16 and spell it for the record, please. 17 MR. FRIEDMAN: I'm sorry. Jordan 18 Friedman. I'm an attorney with Chasan, Leyner 19 and Lamparello, Secaucus, New Jersey. Over 20 the past five weeks, we've done everything we 21 possibly can to make this very easy tonight. 22 And as we got closer to tonight's meeting, of 23 course the flurry of activity became greater. 24 There have been a number of drafts of the 25 resolution passed around and unfortunately, 52 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 and I do not blame anybody for this, I was 3 given when I arrived tonight additional 4 comments that I had not seen before, comments, 5 I believe, by the county engineer. But I 6 think we can work through them. Mr. Marks and 7 I talked briefly before the meeting. I had 8 the opportunity to then speak to my client so 9 I have some wiggle room. So I don't know how 10 we should proceed because the document that 11 you might have in front of you is essentially 12 going to be changed slightly. 13 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, in your 14 packages this evening was the latest draft of 15 the memorializa -- the resolution, the draft 16 resolution. For your consideration it's Corp 17 Case number SP-53-06. It's a three-page 18 resolution. Also in your packages this 19 evening was an e-mail from assistant county 20 engineer, Demetrio Arencibia stating his 21 objections to specific paragraphs. In 22 speaking with Mr. Friedman, I believe that 23 Mr. -- the county engineer, Mr. Arencibia's 24 comments may have been related to a previous 25 draft of the resolution. So I think in terms 53 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 of procedure we should go paragraph by 3 paragraph. I don't mean to drag this out for 4 the board but in order to -- I don't think the 5 board wants to postpone it and table it for 6 another month but in order to get this matter 7 resolved this evening, I think it's important 8 to go over it paragraph by paragraph if that's 9 okay with you, Mr. Chairman. 10 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: That's fine. We'd 11 rather it be clear. 12 MR. MARKS: Okay. 13 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Since we're 14 rehashing this again. 15 MR. MARKS: Since Mr. Friedman is 16 here and he's the author of the resolution 17 perhaps he should -- 18 MR. FRIEDMAN: Well, I won't take -- 19 I won't take full credit but I did have my 20 hand in this. To be perfectly honest with 21 you, I'm more tempted to short change your 22 suggestion because we're only talking about 23 four paragraphs and one of them doesn't exist 24 anymore. So, if you would refer to the e-mail 25 dated today at 3:36 p.m. -- if everybody has 54 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 that in front of them, I'll go on. The first 3 comment was about paragraph 6 and 9. That 4 paragraph 9 that's referenced no longer 5 exists, so right off the bat that could be 6 eliminated. The new paragraph 9 was formerly 7 paragraph 10. 8 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: In your 9 resolution? 10 MR. FRIEDMAN: In the one you have 11 in front of you, you're looking at the correct 12 version. These comments were based on a 13 different version and that -- the paragraph 9 14 at issue in the e-mail was in the prior 15 resolution. That is gone. 16 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: All right. 17 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Which paragraph 18 9 we are talking about now? 19 MR. FRIEDMAN: We're not talking 20 about a paragraph 9 at all. 21 COMMISSIONER JASEK: I'm looking at 22 a paragraph 9 which says the applicant shall 23 contact the New Jersey Turnpike. 24 MR. FRIEDMAN: Correct. And if you 25 read further down in the e-mail, item 9 is not 55 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 acceptable. It goes against the basis for the 3 county's approval. This referred to the DLT 4 review of the warrant. 5 COMMISSIONER JASEK: That's what 6 I -- 7 MR. FRIEDMAN: Okay. That -- the 8 paragraph that implicated this comment or 9 which led to this comment has been eliminated. 10 So the paragraph 9 that you are looking at 11 referencing the New Jersey Turnpike Authority, 12 that is the correct and new number 9 and there 13 are no comments about that. 14 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Okay. 15 MR. FRIEDMAN: Paragraph 6, however 16 -- 17 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Wait, I'm sorry, 18 Mr. Friedman. 19 MR. FRIEDMAN: Sure. 20 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: You reviewed this? 21 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Yes. But I 22 want to make sure that everybody understands 23 that. All right? So if we call something in 24 the e-mail paragraph -- item 9, it might have 25 been different number now because there is 56 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 already item number 9. 3 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: The one you're 4 looking at is the correct one now. 5 COMMISSIONER JASEK: There were so 6 many versions of this resolution -- not so 7 many, several versions, so maybe the numbers 8 got little bit mixed up but we're going to 9 straighten up today. 10 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: All right. All 11 right? 12 MR. FRIEDMAN: So moving on from 9, 13 old and new, paragraph 6 in the version in 14 front of you that reads "the applicant will 15 pay a proportionate share of the cost of the 16 purchase and installation of the traffic 17 control device which has an estimated cost of 18 175,000 dollars," the comments in the e-mail I 19 did not see until I arrived this evening plus 20 I was not previously notified that there was a 21 problem with what we had proposed. But that's 22 okay because I think we'll be able to resolve 23 it. 24 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Wait. We're 25 still talking about item number 6? 57 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 MR. FRIEDMAN: The reason why number 3 6 is written as such is because last May in 4 approving conditionally an application or site 5 plan review application submitted by Cinelli 6 Iron and Metal Company -- I believe that's the 7 full name -- there was a paragraph in the 8 resolution that also required Cinelli to pay a 9 proportionate share of the cost for the 10 installation of the traffic control device 11 that is at issue here. What we are being 12 asked to do is bear all of the cost. Our 13 clients are going to move ahead and 14 effectively bear all of the costs. However, 15 on paper it would be a little inconsistent to 16 require us to be solely responsible when a 17 portion of that responsibility has already 18 been doled out to a neighboring property 19 owner. So, I wish I could just say this is 20 form over substance but it really isn't. We 21 would prefer that paragraph 6 in its present 22 form remain as is to reflect what this board 23 has already done. We do not want to be in a 24 position where as we commence our negotiations 25 with Cinelli to come up with the correct fair 58 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 share agreement that they can then turn around 3 and say well, the planning board, has not 4 passed a resolution that says that you, SKR, 5 is solely responsible for the cost of the 6 design and the construction. We don't want to 7 be in that unfortunate position. And 8 unfortunately as well, I don't know what 9 exactly Cinelli will do during the course of 10 negotiations. So, really, we're asking to be 11 protected but our client because in order to 12 open up its hotel eventually, the traffic 13 signal, if approved by the state is going to 14 have to be there. They would be foolish not 15 to make sure that the traffic signal was 16 designed, constructed and in operation. 17 So we have this problem. Now, I 18 know full well what the county's position is. 19 The county doesn't want to have to look to 20 this pot and that pot to make sure that 21 payment is made. But we just don't want an 22 inconsistency to hurt us in the end. 23 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Mr. 24 Chairman, I have a question. Concerning this 25 light, I think we all agree that the light has 59 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 to come, has to be built, right? The light 3 itself? 4 MR. FRIEDMAN: That's the testimony 5 that was provided. 6 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: And 7 your client is going to be in negotiation with 8 Cinelli to hopefully help pay for this. 9 MR. FRIEDMAN: Hopefully. 10 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Right, 11 hopefully. And if it doesn't happen, that 12 means you're saying that your client will pay 13 the full price of this light? 14 MR. FRIEDMAN: To make sure that the 15 project gets constructed and the hotel opens, 16 our client recognizes that they may have to 17 just bear the cost and then after the fact 18 seek reimbursement somehow some way. 19 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Right. But 20 if you do that -- that's better for your 21 client, but if he doesn't get an agreement, 22 he's still going to have to pay for this 23 light. 24 MR. FRIEDMAN: That is -- 25 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: So I'm 60 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 reading this and I don't see why it has to be 3 changed. 4 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Well, I'm sorry. 5 I think it should be changed because the 6 applicant will pay not a proportionate share 7 but I was under the impression -- 8 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: No. But I'm 9 saying from the e-mail. 10 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Oh, all right. 11 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Yeah. From 12 the e-mail. It says, your client will be 13 completely responsible for the cost of the 14 light. Now, if Cinelli helps you pay for it, 15 that's good for you. But if he doesn't and 16 you stay in negotiation for ten years, that 17 means that light is not going to be built. 18 MR. FRIEDMAN: Well, that is a 19 possibility. Now, I don't think that would be 20 good for Cinelli either because this board has 21 already put in its resolution regarding that 22 property on condition that they pay a 23 proportionate share. Now, if they decided, 24 well, we're not going to pay, I can't fathom 25 at this moment what this board would do if 61 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 Cinelli was reneging on an obligation of its 3 own under that prior resolution. I mean, 4 that's not for discussion for tonight and it's 5 truly none of our business. But that could 6 happen. They could "spiff" us because we're 7 more interested in building a nice hotel and 8 operating it. Of course we have to go 9 forward. 10 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: If you 11 wasn't building this hotel, that light 12 wouldn't have to be built, correct? 13 MR. FRIEDMAN: Well, I can't say for 14 sure. 15 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Yes. 16 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: That was -- 17 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Correct? 18 And now that the hotel is going to be built 19 the light has to be there. 20 COMMISSIONER JASEK: That's correct. 21 Right. 22 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: But that's 23 the reason why your client is responsible for 24 paying for the whole light. Now, if you get 25 Cinelli to help pay for it because that's your 62 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 neighbor, that's better for client. But at 3 the end of the day, being in negotiation with 4 them and they say no for whatever reason, you 5 need the light there to open up the hotel. 6 MR. FRIEDMAN: I agree that's a 7 condition of our application. 8 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: What we 9 don't want to happen is we approve this the 10 way you want us to approve it and then down 11 the road you guys get into a legal battle of 12 who's actually paying for it, your hotel opens 13 and the light never gets there. 14 MR. FRIEDMAN: Well, all of these 15 scenarios, are they in the realm of 16 possibility? Sure. I can only represent that 17 my client doesn't want to do that. But if I 18 could just backtrack really quickly, the prior 19 resolution affecting Cinelli's property was 20 passed last May. You first undertook -- you 21 first voted on our application in December 22 conditionally approving it and now we're just 23 trying to hammer out the appropriate 24 resolution language. So regarding whether a 25 traffic signal was going to be constructed, 63 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 the obligation to pay a proportionate share 3 for the traffic signal already existed with 4 Cinelli regardless of what happened with us 5 because we weren't here until December. So I 6 only pointed out to make sure that, you know, 7 all of the facts are on the table. I guess, 8 really, we're asking for your help to make 9 sure that we don't find ourselves in a bind. 10 I did play around with some 11 alternative language and we might be up to the 12 point where you may want to hear that. And I 13 hope it would be acceptable. And I don't know 14 what's -- if just reading it into the record 15 will do the trick or what. 16 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Mr. Chairman, 17 before we hear the alternative language, let 18 me say something. We are trying to help the 19 applicant to open his business. The only way 20 he can open his business if there is a traffic 21 light. That's why we want him to build it, 22 not to pay for that. If he pays for that to 23 the county, it's going to take five years to 24 build the traffic light. So if he builds it 25 himself according to the plans which will be 64 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 prepared by his engineer, approved by county 3 engineer and approved by Department of 4 Transportation, then he will build it 5 according to these plans. We approve the 6 installation. DOT approves the installation, 7 legalize that. Next day he is in the 8 business. So that was the meaning of this 9 change of the article number 6. 10 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: You 11 stated about you coming to us in December. 12 Okay. We may have approved something in May 13 because we didn't know what kind of 14 development really -- if it there was going to 15 be light development there. We don't know 16 what was going to be there. So you came over 17 and you developed the area and you increased 18 the density and you increased the traffic and 19 you increased the hazardous condition if 20 somebody crosses that street and gets hit. So 21 it's your development that created the problem 22 to make it necessary for a light to be there. 23 So you increased it -- everything. If another 24 guy came in and just put a pocket facility for 25 new vehicles -- did you ever see them? You 65 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 know, come off the boat -- there would have 3 been no problem there. But you made it 4 necessary because it's actually a hotel and 5 it's people that are going to be at risk and 6 you created that situation. 7 MR. FRIEDMAN: I agree that we will 8 have the more intensive use of the area 9 because of the nature of the business. I 10 could argue with a straight face otherwise. 11 Again, however, the prior resolution contains 12 a condition. And the proper procedure under 13 the applicable statutes would require relief 14 from a condition not by way of passing a 15 resolution that trumps the earlier resolution. 16 So I'm just trying to point out we have a 17 procedural issue. We also have an issue where 18 the prior applicant, Cinelli, again, can say, 19 oh, now the county doesn't think we have to do 20 it. But that -- I don't think that's the 21 Board's intention. We realize we are the 22 greater user of the intersection. Our 23 intention is to negotiate a fair share 24 agreement. Our -- I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman. 25 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Okay. It's just 66 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 we're rehashing the same thing once again. 3 And to further what Commissioner Fitzgibbons 4 is saying the traffic light has to be built. 5 I think part of the agreement also was you're 6 not going to get a CO until that's up and 7 running and it's -- by the state. In lieu of 8 that, we understand what you're trying to do. 9 I don't think the board is going to feel 10 comfortable voting on a resolution that's 11 going to have the word proportionate in it 12 where either way your client has to pay for 13 it. We're not going to get into renegotiating 14 who's paying how much, what portion, so on and 15 so forth. It's going to be the responsibility 16 of your client. 17 MR. FRIEDMAN: Understood. 18 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: And we've made 19 that clear since December, even at our pre- 20 site plan meeting. 21 MR. FRIEDMAN: I was not in 22 attendance at that meeting. I am fully aware 23 of what transpired. And I -- we are not 24 backtracking from the responsibility to build 25 that traffic signal. We're going to go ahead 67 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 and do it, plain and simple. Regarding the 3 use of the word proportionate, elsewhere in 4 this resolution regarding the pump station, 5 that word is used. Things have been 6 proportionately split amongst property owners 7 for other kinds of projects. This, I do agree 8 with you, it's same but different. And we're 9 willing to accept language that says we're 10 going to design it and we're going to 11 construct it but if we could have the added 12 protection that references the Cinelli 13 resolution where they have an obligation to 14 pay a share of the cost, I think we'll be able 15 to leave this discussion and just hone in on 16 the appropriate language. 17 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Mr. 18 Chairman -- oh, I'm sorry. Has anyone 19 contacted Cinelli at any point? 20 MR. FRIEDMAN: I did. 21 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I was 22 advised by either their corporate secretary or 23 treasurer that he would reach out to the 24 owners of the company as well as counsel and I 25 requested that I hear from them. I also sent 68 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 correspondence again forwarding the resolution 3 that this board passed regarding their 4 property. I have not heard anything in 5 response. I am under order from our client to 6 try again. 7 MR. HOLLOWAY: Mr. Chairman, after 8 reading this, I can understand your feelings 9 for your client because it read -- if I were 10 Cinelli and I read this personally I wouldn't 11 negotiate with you. I'm being frank with you. 12 But having said that, it doesn't protect the 13 county and our issues with the safety. And 14 for that building to be up a light has to be 15 there. So at the end of the day, you may not 16 have the ball. 17 MR. FRIEDMAN: That's why I'm -- I'm 18 going to try to have my cake and eat it, too, 19 and if you want to hear me out, I have some 20 alternate language. I hope it will be 21 effective by just reading it into the record. 22 "We propose the following. The applicant 23 shall be responsible for the design and 24 construction of the traffic control device but 25 shall share the cost for same with Cinelli 69 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 Iron and Metal, Inc. which was previously 3 directed to share proportionately in the cost 4 of the traffic control device." I don't have 5 the exact resolution number but it is dated 6 May 17th, 2006. 7 In essence, it's just a reaffirmant 8 of what's already been done. 9 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Understood. 10 Steve, is that in that resolution back in May? 11 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, in direct 12 relation to this application, I did go back. 13 I checked the resolution which was 14 memorialized in June. It did contain the 15 language that Cinelli Scrap would have to pay 16 a pro-rated amount towards the installation of 17 a traffic signal as well as a pro-rated amount 18 for the rehabilitation of the county's pump 19 station on Penhorn Creek as is what's being 20 asked of the Candlewood Suites applicant right 21 now. They're on record. I checked the actual 22 transcripts from the May meeting of the 23 attorney for Cinelli Scrap Metal is on record 24 accepting that condition and it is part of the 25 resolution. So, in terms of -- I understand 70 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 where Mr. Friedman is coming from in trying to 3 protect his client. I actually agree with him 4 on this one particular point. It was the 5 board's intention to have the cost of the 6 traffic signal split the two applicants. 7 I wouldn't have a particular problem 8 with the language that Mr. Friedman just went 9 over. However, it would behoove -- I would 10 leave in that -- I would leave language in the 11 memorialized resolution or the resolution to 12 be memorialized that they could not open for 13 business until the traffic signal is in 14 operation. So they would have x number of 15 months to actually negotiate and come to a 16 settlement with Cinelli Scrap. 17 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: All right. 18 I have one question, a legal question. Can we 19 actually read it in the record like that the 20 way he want to legally to make Cinelli pay a 21 portion of it? 22 MR. COLLINS: (Inaudible) 23 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: It may have 24 to actually be written 25 MR. COLLINS: (Inaudible) Reading 71 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 into the record was merely to have it 3 reviewed. I have my understanding to have the 4 language reviewed to come upon an agreement. 5 But it's best we hash it out today to finalize 6 but it would then have to be written in, 7 subsequently rereviewed and then signed by the 8 county. But just reading into the record 9 doesn't make it official that it's the record 10 to be the language that was negotiated today 11 so that when he goes back and my understanding 12 would be verbatim as per this, rewrites the 13 resolution or the paragraph, it would then 14 mirror what was written into the record. 15 MR. HOLLOWAY: But the resolution 16 that we passed with Cinelli has said that they 17 would be paying for some of the -- 18 MR. MARKS: A pro-rated amount 19 towards the installation of a traffic -- at 20 that time -- at the time that Cinelli Scrap 21 Metal was approved back in May of 2006, we 22 didn't have the set of site plans from the 23 Candlewood Suites application. At that point, 24 we didn't know if Candlewood Suites was going 25 to be 80 rooms or 800 rooms. So there was 72 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 really no way to proportionalize to make a 3 pro-rated formula to say one applicant's share 4 was going to be x and one applicant's share 5 was going to be y. So we were at a loss. But 6 we knew a motel -- it's on the record that we 7 knew a motel was being planned for that 8 particular site and we asked the applicant, 9 the town of Secaucus, as you may remember, 10 there's a lieutenant from the Secaucus Police 11 Department who came out and testified in favor 12 of the installation of a traffic signal and 13 again, that was a condition of their approval. 14 But the specific numbers, the specific 15 formula, was not finalized. 16 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Have a question? 17 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Oh, yeah. 18 I'm worried about the wording that I don't 19 want the county to be liable in the middle of 20 a lawsuit and then we're going to be stuck 21 with the bill. I think what this whole thing 22 is, is we put these resolutions together so 23 the two parties can negotiate. And we 24 shouldn't be even involved with the 25 negotiation procedures. 73 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 MR. FRIEDMAN: I don't think you are 3 and I'm sorry if I'm speaking out of turn. We 4 are taking on the responsibility to build this 5 thing. 6 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: You okay with 7 that, Commissioner Jasek? 8 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Well, that's 9 the whole idea because, as I said, without a 10 traffic light, I will put a county barrier 11 across the driveway and they will not open for 12 their business. 13 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Are you okay with 14 the wording that Mr. Friedman just read? 15 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Well, I don't 16 mind if he mentions that contribution 17 according to resolution number whatever it is. 18 But either this board or the county should be 19 no party to any negotiation between those two. 20 It's strictly up to them and I believe that 21 Cinelli will negotiate in the good faith. 22 It's not such a big deal because they can 23 count the truck fare one day and traffic from 24 the hotel per one day and make a simple 25 arithmetics and figure it out. 74 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 MR.FRIEDMAN: We already have that 3 information so when we hear from Cinelli, 4 we'll be able to engage in those negotiations 5 very quickly. 6 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I think 7 there was a traffic report Cinelli -- Cinelli 8 did submit a traffic report? 9 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Yeah, but that was 10 prior to the hotel. 11 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Yeah, Cinelli 12 presented traffic report with about fifteen 13 trucks a day, something of that -- 14 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Yeah, but 15 it's on their usage. 16 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: 17 Furthermore, J. Cinelli is a scrap buying 18 company. It's a business where trucks that 19 run back and forth with scrap. We're dealing 20 with human beings that will be using that 21 hotel daily. For the safety of those 22 individuals that rent there, wouldn't you want 23 to see them come out safely and go in safely 24 every day? Your business will increase. If 25 people find it very difficult to go in and out 75 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 of your hotel, they will come there. So for 3 your benefit, posting a light there is the 4 best thing you could to for the safety of your 5 people. J. Cinelli should not be even listed 6 in this application unless they want to come 7 up here and say I want to help them out. But 8 I doubt -- 9 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Mary, we 10 made that very clear when we were approving 11 their application -- the Cinelli application. 12 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I know. 13 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: So they 14 should be responsible. 15 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: If you're 16 building a beautiful hotel like that, the 17 light should go with it automatically and it 18 will pay at the end for the safety of everyone 19 included there. 20 MR. FRIEDMAN: Well, that's why we 21 are posting the performance bond. That's in 22 our resolution. Not in the Cinelli 23 resolution. We're serious about getting this 24 traffic signal installed. 25 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Well, 76 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 you're going to have to be serious because you 3 ain't going to open for business if you don't 4 get it. 5 MR. FRIEDMAN: And we know that. 6 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Next item, Mr. 7 Friedman. 8 MR. FRIEDMAN: I'm sorry? 9 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Your next item? 10 MR. FRIEDMAN: Okay. These are 11 going to be quick. 12 MR. COLLINS: Mr. Chairman, Mr. 13 Chairman? In discussing with Mr. Marks and 14 contemplating while Mr. Friedman was speaking, 15 the resolution -- the Cinelli resolution was 16 already passed and so in referencing that 17 direct resolution with the date and time in 18 which it was passed into the new wording would 19 basically clear the county of being involved 20 in negotiation and would cite to the previous 21 resolution and keep with the conformity. 22 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: All right. 23 MR. COLLINS: So it would cite to 24 the prior agreement that was already passed 25 that the county approved of, and so it would 77 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 in fact be in line with what's trying to be 3 accomplished today. 4 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: And it will make 5 your life easier to negotiate with Cinelli. 6 Thank you. 7 MR. COLLINS: All right. 8 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Are there any more 9 questions about this paragraph 6? 10 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Can somebody 11 summarize it? 12 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: We would 13 like our lawyer to summarize it. 14 MR. FRIEDMAN: That's fine with me. 15 MR. COLLINS: Basically, 16 Commissioner Jasek and the fellow 17 commissioners, what Mr. Friedman proposed and 18 what I believe we just discussed and resolved 19 is going to happen was their concern is the 20 resolution which was previously passed which 21 would, in fact, in great detail be referenced 22 both as to -- I believe he referenced date, 23 time and wording and used that wording from 24 the originally passed resolution in a manner 25 of keeping with conformity for this one. 78 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 Because as was stated earlier, this site was 3 taken into account when that resolution was 4 passed; however, there was not known details. 5 So it had to be passed the way it was. If you 6 then cite to that exact stip -- those exact 7 stipulations verbatim with regards to the new 8 resolution, it will keep in line what the 9 county had at the time and allow them to 10 negotiate with Cinelli in a uniform conformed 11 way. And I believe, as Mr. Friedman said, 12 they won't be able to open their hotel anyway 13 without the light so push comes to shove, my 14 understanding is they will bear the burden of 15 paying and then look to be reimbursed. So it 16 keeps in line with the county -- with what the 17 county originally did and legally all the 18 wording will conform. 19 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Can I put it 20 into the plan language so I can understand 21 that? The applicant shall design and 22 construct the traffic device which is 23 condition for opening the hotel for the 24 business. The application shall negotiate 25 with Cinelli as per resolution whatever, 2006, 79 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 for their proportion -- for their portion of 3 the contribution to the cost. That's enough 4 for me. 5 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I'm okay with it. 6 MR. COLLINS: You're saying the same 7 thing basically that was said, just in, as you 8 said, plain language. 9 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: We're going to see 10 it in resolution form again I think before we 11 memorialize it, right? 12 MR. COLLINS: Yes. The wording will 13 have to be rewritten and put up for approval 14 again anyway. 15 MR. FRIEDMAN: Not tonight? 16 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Is that the case? 17 Are we going to go through the other items and 18 then draw up a new resolution to memorialize? 19 MR. FRIEDMAN: We were really hoping 20 -- well, because we have agreed how we should 21 proceed, we're really hoping we could get the 22 resolution passed tonight. 23 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: We did tell your 24 client the last time, the applicant, that he 25 could -- am I incorrect by saying that they 80 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 could start their process with construction, 3 so on and so forth? We were in agreement with 4 that or no? 5 MR. MARKS: We've actually denied -- 6 I think we denied them their road opening 7 permits, their curb cut permits, pending the 8 outcome of this resolution. 9 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: We did? Oh, all 10 right. 11 MR. MARKS: So they're in a holding 12 pattern at this point. 13 MR. FRIEDMAN: Why don't we resolve 14 numbers 4 and 5 and then come back to how you 15 want to proceed with passing this resolution? 16 Again, the comments about paragraphs 4 and 5 I 17 was not aware of until this evening but that's 18 okay because we would gladly take -- remove 19 paragraph 4 and in paragraph 5, just to 20 explain the purpose of the thirty day time 21 period, once the design of the traffic signal 22 is deemed complete, we would hope the county 23 would submit the application to DOT quickly 24 anyway. Thirty days seem to be ample time to 25 send it to Trenton. If there is an absolute 81 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 objection to a thirty day period, I can agree 3 to remove it because we would expect that it 4 would be done promptly anyway and the rest of 5 the paragraph does refer to prompt action by 6 the county. 7 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Mr. Chairman, 8 may I suggest the language? Number 5: The 9 county shall after approval promptly submit 10 the traffic control device, plans for review 11 by NJDOT. The county does not have a control 12 over the timing and the review by NJDOT. 13 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: And if 14 you know the state of New Jersey, they move 15 pretty slowly. 16 MR. FRIEDMAN: Well, we'll hope they 17 move quickly. I don't have a problem with 18 what Commissioner Jasek said. 19 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Did we get it? 20 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Yeah, I think so. 21 COMMISSIONER NG: So number 5 will 22 be -- so we changed the wording? 23 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Yes. 24 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: What we're going 25 to do when we're through with all this, if you 82 1 Hudson County Planning Board - 2/21/07 2 don't mind, Commissioner Jasek, just reading 3 both of your amendments for the record if 4 we're going to approve this tonight. But we 5 have one more to go through, I believe. 6 COMMISSIONER JASEK: But -- well, we 7 can hear it from the -- from the record. They 8 can read it back. 9 CHAIRMAN CH