- 1 - 1 HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD JERSEY CITY, NEW JERSEY 2 RE: ) 3 PUBLIC HEARING ) TRANSCRIPT OF ) PROCEEDINGS: 4 ) - - - - - - - - - - - - - ) 5 Hudson County Planning Board 6 567 Pavonia Avenue Freeholders Chambers, 3rd Floor 7 Jersey City, New Jersey 07306 Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8 6:30 pm 9 B E F O R E: 10 Michael Ascolese 11 Thomas P. Calvanico, Esq. 12 Michael A. Holloway 13 Renee Bettinger 14 Mary Avagliano 15 Daniel Choffo, Chairman 16 Doreen DiDomenico 17 Jeffrey Dublin 18 Demetrio Arencibia 19 20 21 Reported By: 22 MARK WEINBERG 23 REPORTING SERVICES ARRANGED THROUGH VERITEXT/NEW JERSEY REPORTING COMPANY 24 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301 Florham Park, New Jersey 07932 25 Tel No.: (973) 410-4040 Fax: (973) 410-1313 - 2 - 1 I N D E X 2 E X H I B I T S 3 No. Description I.D. 4 A-1 Site Location Plan 21 A-2 Plan for 22 5 Deceleration Lane A-1 Developable Area 58 6 Map for Mori Track A-2 Proposed Access 58 7 and Fill Location Plan 8 A-3 Soil Erosion and 62 Sediment Control 9 Plan A-4 Traffic Control 77 10 Plan on Patterson Plank Road 11 A-1 - Photographs 104 A-4 12 A-5 Plans from Fence 105 Company 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - 3 - 1 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Good evening. 2 I'd like to call the meeting of the Hudson County 3 Planning Board to order this evening, August 15, 4 2007. Counsel, has this meeting been properly 5 advertised? 6 MR. CALVANICO: Yes, Mr. 7 Chairman. The meeting has been properly advertised 8 in accordance with the Open Public Meetings Act. It 9 has been posted on the board of both the clerk of 10 the Board of Chosen Freeholders and the County 11 Clerk's office. 12 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Perfect. 13 Mr. Ascolese, can you do roll call? 14 MR. ASCOLESE: Sure. 15 Commissioner Arencibia? 16 MR. ARENCIBIA: Aye. 17 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 18 Avagliano? 19 MS. AVAGLIANO: Here. 20 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 21 Bettinger? 22 MS. BETTINGER: Here 23 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 24 DiDomenico? 25 MR. DUBLIN: She's not present. - 4 - 1 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 2 Dublin? 3 MR. DUBLIN: Present. 4 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 5 Fitzgibbons? 6 MR. DUBLIN: Not present. 7 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 8 Jasek? 9 MR. DUBLIN: Not present. 10 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 11 Holloway? 12 MR. HOLLOWAY: Here. 13 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 14 Mehta? 15 MR. DUBLIN: Not present. 16 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner Ng? 17 Chairman Choffo? 18 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Present. 19 MR. ASCOLESE: We have a quorum, 20 Mr. Chairman. 21 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Thank you. 22 Will everyone stand to salute the flag, please? 23 (Pledge of Allegiance is Recited) 24 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: The review and 25 adoption of the meeting minutes from July 18, 2007, - 5 - 1 did every commissioner get a chance to read them? 2 MR. HOLLOWAY: Yes. 3 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Any questions? 4 Do I have a motion? 5 MR. HOLLOWAY: Motion. 6 MS. BETTINGER: I'll second the 7 motion to approve the minutes. 8 MR. ASCOLESE: On a motion by 9 Commissioner Holloway, seconded by 10 Commissioner Bettinger -- 11 MS. BETTINGER: Right. 12 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 13 Arencibia? 14 MR. ARENCIBIA: Aye. 15 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 16 Avagliano? 17 MS. AVAGLIANO: Aye. 18 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 19 Bettinger? 20 MS. BETTINGER: Aye. 21 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 22 Holloway? 23 MR. HOLLOWAY: Aye. 24 MR. ASCOLESE: Chairman Choffo? 25 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Aye. Before - 6 - 1 we start the next section of the meeting, can I just 2 remind all the commissioners and the audience to 3 speak clearly into the microphone for our reporter 4 because of the audible signs get picked up in the 5 background and it's tough for him to do the minutes 6 of the meeting. And anyone that's going to address 7 the board, just -- if you're an applicant, if you 8 could be sworn in by our attorney we'd appreciate 9 it. 10 MR. ASCOLESE: Section 5(a). 11 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Yeah. 12 MR. ASCOLESE: Memorialization 13 of resolutions approved, conditionally approved or 14 denied at last meeting. Application SP-25-07, T.R. 15 Suralwala/Best Western, 2650 Patterson Plank Road, 16 North Bergen, New Jersey; SP-32-07 Lafayette 17 Management, Patterson Plank Road and 22nd Street, 18 North Bergen, New Jersey; SP-44-07, Clifford Adam 19 and Richard Adam, 2158 Kennedy Boulevard, Jersey 20 City; SP-45-07 Sayed Hassan, 691 Kennedy Boulevard, 21 Bayonne; SD-46-07, Brahmani Ma Bergen LLC, 81 Old 22 Bergen Road, Jersey City; SP-47-07, 23 Ramautar Gangadin, 3673 Kennedy Boulevard, Jersey 24 City. 25 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Do I have a - 7 - 1 motion? 2 MS. BETTINGER: I'll make a 3 motion to approve. 4 MR. HOLLOWAY: Second. 5 MR. ASCOLESE: On a motion by Commissioner 6 Bettinger, second by Commissioner Avaglino. 7 Commissioner Arencibia? 8 MR. ARENCIBIA: Aye. 9 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 10 Avagliano? 11 MS. AVAGLIANO: Aye. 12 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 13 Bettinger? 14 MS. BETTINGER: Aye. 15 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 16 Holloway? 17 MR. HOLLOWAY: Aye. 18 MR. ASCOLESE: Chairman Choffo? 19 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I vote aye. 20 MR. ASCOLESE: Applications 21 declared to be exempt; SP-1307 Clayton Terrace LLC, 22 120 Clinton Street, Jersey City; SP-1507 Omni Point 23 Communications, 6010 Boulevard East, West New York; 24 SD-5107 Elite Development LLC, 409-411 North 5th 25 Street, Harrison; SD-53-07 Balbir & Suman Trikha, - 8 - 1 123 Neptune Avenue, Jersey City. 2 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Do I have a 3 motion? 4 MS. AVAGLIANO: Motion. 5 MR. HOLLOWAY: Second. 6 MR. ASCOLESE: Fine. A motion 7 by Commissioner Avagliano, seconded by Commissioner 8 Holloway. Commissioner Arencibia? 9 MR. ARENCIBIA: Aye. 10 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 11 Avagliano? 12 MS. AVAGLIANO: Aye. 13 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 14 Bettinger? 15 MS. BETTINGER: Aye. 16 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 17 Holloway? 18 MR. HOLLOWAY: Aye. 19 MR. ASCOLESE: Chairman Choffo? 20 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Aye. 21 MR. ASCOLESE: First 22 application, the Municipal Stormwater Management 23 Plan, City of Bayonne. 24 MR. WYNN: Members of the board, 25 my name is Kevin Wynn. I'm a senior project manager - 9 - 1 with the engineering firm of Hatchmont McDonald. 2 And I'm here on the behalf of the City of Bayonne to 3 discuss their stormwater management plan in that 4 regards. 5 MR. CALVANICO: Please spell 6 your last name for the record, sir. 7 MR. WYNN: My last name is 8 spelled W-Y-N-N. 9 MR. CALVANICO: Okay. 10 (Kevin Wynn is duly sworn) 11 MR. CALVANICO: Thank you. 12 MR. WYNN: As part of the DEPs 13 new initiatives in regards to stormwater management 14 within the State of New Jersey, all municipalities 15 are required to submit their stormwater management 16 plan to the respective counties for approval and 17 adoption. That was done on the behalf of the City 18 of Bayonne in May. In June we received -- we 19 received a letter dated June 11th from T & M 20 Associates with some very general comments -- to the 21 city's stormwater management plan. And I've 22 reviewed those with T & M Associates and I don't 23 find any issues with them. And we will be 24 addressing them and I would request that the board 25 approve Bayonne's Stormwater Management Plan subject - 10 - 1 to the condition of us addressing this letter from T 2 & M Associates and then we'll resubmit the documents 3 to the -- to the county planning board for final 4 adoption. 5 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: All right. 6 Could we hear something from T & M, please? 7 MS. SANTOS: Good evening. My 8 name is Rose Santos from T & M Associates. We've 9 been working along with the county planning board to 10 review the stormwater management plans and 11 ordinances as they are received from the various 12 municipalities. 13 Upon receipt of the City of 14 Bayonne's documents, we based our review on the May 15 2005 checklist that was provided by the DEP. Based 16 on that review we had some general comments, as 17 noted by Mr. Wynn, and we recommend that the board 18 issue them conditional approval. They will then 19 have 180 days to comply or address the comments that 20 we noted and then they can come forward for final 21 approval. Any questions? 22 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Any questions? 23 Any questions for Mr. Wynn? Do I have a motion? 24 MS. AVAGLIANO: Do we have to 25 make a motion? - 11 - 1 MS. BETTINGER: I'll make a 2 motion to approve. 3 MS. AVAGLIANO: I'll second it. 4 MR. ASCOLESE: MSMP-05, City of 5 Bayonne Municipal Stormwater Management Plan. On a 6 motion by Commissioner Bettinger, Seconded by 7 Commissioner Avagliano. I'll take a vote. 8 Commissioner Arencibia? 9 MR. ARENCIBIA: Aye. 10 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 11 Avagliano? 12 MS. AVAGLIANO: Aye. 13 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 14 Bettinger? 15 MS. BETTINGER: Aye. 16 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 17 Holloway? 18 MR. HOLLOWAY: Aye. 19 MR. ASCOLESE: Chairman Choffo? 20 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Aye. 21 MR. ASCOLESE: Motion is passed. 22 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Thank you. 23 MR. WYNN: Thank you, Mr. 24 Chairman. 25 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Thank you. - 12 - 1 Thank you, Ms. Santos. 2 MR. ASCOLESE: The next item on 3 the agenda is MSMP-06 City of Hoboken Municipal 4 Stormwater Management Plan. Is anyone representing 5 the City of Hoboken? 6 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I guess we'll 7 make a motion to table it. 8 MS. BETTINGER: I'll make a 9 motion to table -- what is it? MSMP-06. 10 MR. ASCOLESE: On a motion to 11 table by Commissioner Bettinger, seconded by 12 Commissioner Avagliano. Commissioner Arencibia? 13 MR. ARENCIBIA: Aye. 14 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 15 Avagliano? 16 MS. AVAGLIANO: Yes. 17 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 18 Bettinger? 19 MS. BETTINGER: Aye. 20 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 21 Holloway? 22 MR. HOLLOWAY: Aye. 23 MR. ASCOLESE: Chairman Choffo? 24 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Aye. 25 MR. ASCOLESE: Motion to table - 13 - 1 is passed. The next item on the agenda, MSMP-07 2 City of Jersey City Municipal Stormwater Management 3 Plan. 4 MS. BETTINGER: We read it 5 already. 6 MR. PRAKASH: Good evening. My 7 name is Rajiv Prakash and I'm a staff engineer with 8 the Jersey City MUA, representing the City of Jersey 9 City. We submitted, similar to the City of Bayonne, 10 we submitted -- okay. It's R-A-J-I-V, V as in 11 Victor, and P-R-A-K-A-S-H. 12 And like the City of Bayonne, we 13 also submitted our stormwater management plan and 14 our control ordinance to the county planning board 15 for approval. And again, this was submitted back in 16 May of this year and we did receive a letter from T 17 & M Associates commenting on our stormwater 18 management plan and also the ordinance. And we're 19 currently addressing some of those comments. And 20 we're going to be resubmitting, probably in a 21 month's period, for -- again review and approval. 22 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: All right. 23 Ms. Santos? 24 MS. SANTOS: Similar to the City 25 of Bayonne, we received their stormwater management - 14 - 1 plan and ordinance. And on a letter addressed to 2 the board on June 19th we had comments both on the 3 plan and the ordinance but they were general in 4 nature. And we're recommending that the board issue 5 conditional approval, at which time the city would 6 also have 180 days to revise their documents and 7 resubmit for final approval. 8 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: All right. Do 9 I have a motion to conditionally approve this? 10 Unless commissioners have any questions about it. 11 Any questions? 12 MR. HOLLOWAY: Motion to, with 13 conditions, please. 14 MS. AVAGLIANO: Second. 15 MR. ASCOLESE: On a motion by 16 Commissioner Holloway with conditions, seconded by 17 Commissioner Avagliano. Commissioner Arancibia? 18 MR. ARENCIBIA: Aye. 19 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 20 Avagliano? 21 MS. AVAGLIANO: Aye. 22 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 23 Bettinger? 24 MS. BETTINGER: Aye. 25 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner - 15 - 1 DiDomenico? 2 MS. DIDOMENICO: Abstain. 3 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 4 Holloway? 5 MR. HOLLOWAY: Aye. 6 MR. ASCOLESE: Chairman Choffo? 7 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I vote aye. 8 MR. ASCOLESE: The motion 9 carries. 10 MS. SANTOS: Thank you. 11 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Thank you. 12 Thank you Mr. Prakash. 13 MR. PRAKASH: Thank you, 14 chairman. 15 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Just let the 16 record show that Freeholder DiDomenico is present at 17 the meeting. 18 MR. ASCOLESE: Next item on the 19 agenda, SP-2507-TR Suralwala/Best Western, 2650 20 Patterson Plank Road, North Bergen. 21 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Did we skip 22 one? 23 MR. ASCOLESE: I apologize for 24 that. The next item on the agenda -- 25 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Its okay, - 16 - 1 Mike. 2 MR. ASCOLESE: SP-102-06, Hartz 3 Mountain Industries, Secaucus. 4 MR. HUGHES: Good evening, Mr. 5 Chairman. David Hughes. I'm an attorney with Hartz 6 Mountain Industries in Secaucus. For a second there 7 I thought I lost my space. 8 In any event, we're here this 9 evening with respect to the approval of a parking 10 deck being constructed at Harmon Meadow in Secaucus, 11 New Jersey. We received, from T & M, I guess, their 12 comments and also from Steven Marks, a letter dated 13 August 8, 2007. 14 As I read that I believe there's 15 only two open issues. One relates to the 16 construction of a decel lane on adjacent property of 17 Hartz, which is not owned by Hartz. And the other 18 issue relates to the payment of certain fees and 19 that issue has to be resolved because there is a 20 slight change in the construction of the deck and 21 the number of spaces which generates the correct fee 22 amount. 23 I have Mr. Perry Frenzel with me 24 here this evening. He is an Engineer with Hartz 25 Mountain Industries to answer any of the questions - 17 - 1 you may with respect to the deck and the 2 construction of same. I'd like to have him sworn. 3 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Please do. 4 MR. CALVANICO: Please state 5 your name and spell your last name for the record. 6 MR. FRENZEL: Perry Frenzel, 7 F-R-E-N-Z-E-L. 8 (Perry Frenzel is duly sworn). 9 MR. CALVANICO: Thank you. 10 MR. HUGHES: Mr. Chairman, I 11 have a couple of exhibits that need to be marked. 12 I'd like to have the attorney mark them. 13 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Sure. 14 MR. CALVANICO: Have these 15 previously been submitted or are they -- 16 MR. HUGHES: These have been 17 previously submitted in some (indiscernible). 18 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Do me a favor, 19 can we just speak into the microphone. You could 20 actually mark them as you discuss them as A-1. 21 MR. HUGHES: That's fine. Just 22 so everybody could here. Mr. Frenzel, could you 23 just address the construction of this deck, where it 24 is and the size of it that's anticipated? 25 MR. FRENZEL: The parking deck - 18 - 1 which is the subject of this application will be 2 constructed in Harmon Meadow. Our development at 3 Route 3 and Patterson Plan Road in Secaucus. 4 I'd like to first refer to this 5 exhibit, which is titled Site Location Plan, 6 prepared for Hartz Mountain Industries by Azzolina 7 and Fuery Engineering, our site engineers. This is 8 simply an overall diagram of Harmon Meadow showing 9 Route 3 going across the upper left side of the 10 drawing, Patterson Plank Road running up and down 11 the left side of the drawing and the turnpike on the 12 top of the drawing, just to orient you. 13 The proposed parking deck is 14 shown in the lower left corner of the drawing, 15 nearest Patterson Plank Road, adjacent to Plaza 16 Drive. It would be between the existing 100 Plaza 17 Drive office building and the -- what was the Main 18 Stay Suites Hotel, now the Homestead Suites Hotel. 19 This is right on Patterson Plank Road. 20 MR. HUGHES: And could you 21 address the number of spaces that are being 22 constructed? 23 MR. FRENZEL: The parking deck 24 itself would contain a total of 500 spaces. Given 25 the fact that the parking deck would displace - 19 - 1 certain spaces on grade in order to construct it, 2 that would mean that the net increase of parking 3 spaces on the site would be 318. 4 MR. HUGHES: And there was some 5 initial confusion as to the total number of spaces 6 when the plans were submitted, is the reason why the 7 number is now less? 8 MR. FRENZEL: Originally, when 9 the application was submitted, it was for -- the 10 application site is 661 spaces. 661 spaces is 11 actually the number of spaces including the parking 12 deck, within the area, that would be affected by the 13 construction. That includes a number of spaces on 14 grade outside of the parking deck which are actually 15 being shifted slightly as a result of the revised 16 site plan. 17 So when you boil it all out, the 18 total effect -- the net effect is, like I said, 318 19 additional spaces. 20 MR. HUGHES: All right. The 21 only reason I bring that up is because the fees are 22 based on a total space count of 661. So that's just 23 another issue that got resolved, you know, after 24 this particular hearing. 25 The other issue relates to a - 20 - 1 deceleration lane that was proposed adjacent to our 2 property. Could you describe that to the board? 3 MR. FRENZEL: The roadway 4 improvement that Mr. Hughes refers to is or would be 5 a deceleration lane, an additional dedicated right- 6 turn off of Patterson Plank Road westbound going 7 toward Route 3 into Plaza Drive toward our 8 development. That would require the acquisition of 9 property from the adjoining property owner, totaling 10 about 1,604 square feet. The requirement of this 11 deceleration lane, I believe, goes back in. 12 Mr. Arencibia, I believe, can keep me straight on 13 this. I think it goes back to the AmeriSuites Hotel 14 application of a few years ago and has been carried 15 forth each application since then. 16 Hartz still remains committed to 17 do that. We have initiated the appraisal process, 18 which is referenced in Mr. Mark's letter. And we 19 have submitted the plan that I just showed you to 20 the county traffic engineer for his comments and we 21 have gotten those back concerning the size of the 22 piece to be taken and the actual character. 23 Originally it was contemplated as an easement. 24 Mr. Sierra asked that it be changed to a piece of 25 property that would actually be taken and, I - 21 - 1 believe, dedicated to the county. 2 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Mr. Hughes, 3 can you just identify the drawings again and mark 4 them as exhibits -- 5 MR. HUGHES: Sure. 6 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: -- for the 7 record. 8 MR. HUGHES: The first one that 9 we need to mark is A-1 -- do you want me to mark it 10 myself? 11 (Site Location Plan is marked as A-1 12 for identification.) 13 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Please do. 14 MR. HUGHES: Which is the 15 general sketch of the entire site. 16 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Can you hear? 17 No. 18 MR. HUGHES: The second plan 19 relates to the -- 20 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Could you -- 21 I'm sorry. 22 MR. HUGHES: I'm sorry. 23 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: It's just 24 tough for the -- 25 MR. HUGHES: The second plan - 22 - 1 relates to the deceleration lane which I will mark 2 as A-2. 3 (Plan for Deceleration Lane is marked 4 as A-2 for identification.) 5 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Thank you. 6 MR. HUGHES: As sated previously 7 by Mr. Frenzel, I mean, we're willing and able to 8 construct said deceleration lane. I believe there 9 is an application scheduled after this one with Mr. 10 Mori and Mori Properties. It is my understanding 11 that this issue would also be discussed with him. 12 I had retained the services of 13 Stack and Stack, an appraisal company, to; you know, 14 analyze the property and come up with a dollar 15 figure. And we basically await the outcome of Mr. 16 Mori's application at this point. 17 Does the board have any other 18 questions of Mr. Frenzel? 19 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Mr. Arencibia? 20 MR. ARENCIBIA: Well, I just 21 want to make the conditions clear for the approval. 22 And yeah, the right turn lane was based on the 23 AmeriSuites approval back, I believe, in 2000 when 24 it was constructed. And for some reason the 25 communications failed, at that point, between these - 23 - 1 two parties that are up tonight so the right turn 2 lane was incomplete and if you go out there and take 3 a look at it its maybe about forty feet long or 4 something. It's not adequate at all. So there has 5 to be a real commitment to make this a reality. 6 This right turn lane has to be there and -- and 7 we're going to ask the same thing from the Mori 8 Application. But Hartz Mountain is going to get 9 this appraisal done and prepare the drawings to have 10 the property dedicated to the county, to purchase it 11 from Mori. And then Hartz will also pave and 12 construct the new right turn lane and all the other 13 necessary relocations of the -- 14 MR. HUGHES: Signage, etcetera. 15 MR. ARENCIBIA: -- and the 16 utilities and that kind. And I believe also there 17 was a traffic signal -- minor traffic signal work 18 such as putting up a red signal ahead -- 19 MR. HUGHES: Yeah, I believe 20 there was signage submitted. 21 MR. ARENCIBIA: All right. 22 There needs to be a little better signage too with 23 the right turn lane because a lot of people are 24 confused and not using the lanes properly. They're 25 turning from the left lane into Hartz or into the - 24 - 1 Route 3 ramp. 2 MR. HUGHES: Yeah, that was an 3 issue that was brought up when we reviewed this 4 application in a work session some time ago. And 5 subsequent to that there was follow-up work done by 6 a traffic consultant. And there was a plan that was 7 submitted to Mr. Sierra. 8 MR. ARENCIBIA: Right. I 9 believe that he reviewed it and I think he provided 10 his comments to Michael Marris (ph.) the traffic 11 engineer. And I don't know if he, you know, 12 returned the new plan for Jose Sierra from my 13 office. But that needs to get ironed out as well. 14 So, those are really the conditions and they are 15 very important conditions for the approval. And 16 those are the only comments I have. 17 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Any questions 18 from any of the commissioners? 19 MR. HOLLOWAY: I have one 20 question. Has any fees -- application fees been 21 paid? 22 MR. HUGHES: Yes. Yes. We've 23 paid the initial application fees. There was some 24 initial question as to even jurisdiction, which I 25 discussed with Mr. Marks. That has now been, - 25 - 1 obviously, resolved. The problem lies in the count 2 with respect to the deck itself, which has been 3 changed. 4 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I do have two 5 questions. How many stories is the parking deck? 6 MR. FRENZEL: its three levels 7 above grade. 8 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: All right. 9 And is this subject to Meadowlands Commission 10 approval? 11 MR. FRENZEL: Yes, it is. And 12 that has been granted. 13 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: All right. 14 Any other questions? Do I have a motion? 15 MR. KLEIN: (Indiscernible). 16 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Oh, I'm sorry. 17 Go ahead, Lee. And my apologies. 18 MR. KLEIN: Lee Klein with T & M 19 Associates. I just wanted to reiterate a couple of 20 things. In our letter dated July 12, 2007 we had 21 some comments in there, and I think Mr. Arancibia, 22 sort of, alluded to them but I just wanted to get 23 them into the record. The applicant should propose 24 backplates on the signal heads. There's a, maybe, a 25 sun glare issue in that area. - 26 - 1 Also, we asked them to look at 2 the most recent twelve months of crashes at that 3 intersection of Plaza Drive and Patterson Plank Road 4 just to see if there are other things, signing, 5 striping, pavement markings, backplates that would 6 help to mitigate some of the possible crashes that 7 might be occurring there. 8 And that was really the only 9 other two items. 10 MR. ARENCIBIA: Yeah, I just 11 wanted to make -- this location, especially this 12 area, has a high accident rate and it's listed in 13 the -- the North Jersey Transportation Planning 14 Authority as a level B high accident rate. So I 15 guess A is the highest so B is the second highest. 16 So there's a lot of accidents in this area. So 17 whatever improvement we can take a look at and try 18 to make the intersection a lot safer than it is. 19 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: All right. 20 Thank you. One other thing I have is that the 21 resolution probably would not be issued until all 22 the fees are paid, the escrow fees and so on and so 23 forth. 24 MR HUGHES: No problem. I just 25 have to have that analyzed with, I guess, T & M or - 27 - 1 whomever because that has to be recounted at this 2 point. 3 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Uh-huh. All 4 right. Do I have a motion? 5 MS. DIDOMENICO: I'll move. 6 MR. HOLLOWAY: Second. 7 MR. ASCOLESE: SP-102-06 Hartz 8 Mountain Industries, Incorporated, Harmon Meadows, 9 Secaucus. On a motion by Commissioner DiDomenica, 10 seconded by Commissioner Holloway. Commissioner 11 Arencibia? 12 MR. ARENCIBIA: Aye, with the 13 conditions. 14 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 15 Avagliano? 16 MS. AVAGLIANO: Aye. 17 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 18 Bettinger? 19 MS. BETTINGER: Aye. 20 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 21 DiDomenico? 22 MS. DIDOMENICO: Aye. 23 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 24 Holloway? 25 MR. HOLLOWAY: Aye, with all the - 28 - 1 conditions. 2 MR. ASCOLESE: Chairman Choffo? 3 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I vote aye. 4 Good luck. 5 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Mr. Chairman, 6 with respect to the fees, who should I address them 7 with? 8 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I believe Mr. 9 Marks. 10 MR. HUGHES: Okay. I will do 11 that. 12 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Thank you. 13 MR. ASCOLESE: Next item on the 14 agenda, SP-30-07, Mori Properties, Patterson Plank 15 Road, Secaucus. 16 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Is anybody 17 here from Mori Properties? Do I have motion to 18 table its application? 19 MS. BETTINGER: I'll make a 20 motion to table SP-30-07. 21 MS. AVAGLIANO: I'll second it. 22 MR. ASCOLESE: On a motion to 23 table by Commissioner Bettinger, seconded by 24 Commissioner Avagliano. Commissioner Arancibia? 25 MR. ARENCIBIA: Aye. - 29 - 1 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 2 Avagliano? 3 MS. AVAGLIANO: Aye. 4 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 5 Bettinger? 6 MS. BETTINGER: Aye. 7 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 8 DiDomenico? 9 MS. DIDOMENICO: Aye. 10 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 11 Holloway? 12 MR. HOLLOWAY: Aye. 13 MR. ASCOLESE: Chairman Choffo? 14 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I vote aye. 15 MR. ASCOLESE: Motion to table 16 passes. Chairman -- Mr. Chairman, Commissioner -- 17 SP-37-07 sent a letter asking to have it adjourned 18 and heard at the next meeting. 19 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: All right. 20 So, do I have a motion? Do we need a motion? 21 MR. CALVANICO: To table, again. 22 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Okay. 23 MS. BETTINGER: I'll make a 24 motion to table SP-37-07. 25 MS. AVAGLIANO: Second. - 30 - 1 MR. ASCOLESE: On a motion by 2 Commissioner Bettinger and seconded by Commissioner 3 Avagliano. Commissioner Arencibia? 4 MR. ARENCIBIA: Aye. 5 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 6 Avagliano? 7 MS. AVAGLIANO: Aye. 8 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 9 Bettinger? 10 MS. BETTINGER: Aye. 11 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 12 DiDomenico? 13 MS. DIDOMENICO: Aye. 14 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 15 Holloway? 16 MR. HOLLOWAY: Aye. 17 MR. ASCOLESE: Chairman Choffo? 18 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Aye. 19 MR. ASCOLESE: Motion to adjourn 20 passes -- tabled, excuse me, correction. The next 21 item on the agenda, SP-40-07 C.C. Rental, 22 230 Secaucus Road, Secaucus. 23 MR. SHERGER: Thank you for not 24 adjourning. We've waited a long time for this 25 moment. My name is John Sherger. I'm the president - 31 - 1 of C.C. Rental. We're a -- 2 MR. CALVANICO: Would you spell 3 your last name, please? 4 MR. SHERGER: I'm sorry, S-H-E- 5 R-G-E-R. We are a van and truck rental company 6 located in Wayne, New Jersey. We have offices in 7 Bloomingdale, New Jersey and on West 37th Street in 8 New York City. We purchased a property in Secaucus, 9 approximately one year ago. Made applications 10 subsequently to the Meadowlands Commission, through 11 McNally and Associates, Mr. Greco. We've gotten 12 approval from the Meadowlands Commission and we're 13 here, at this point, to continue on with the 14 approval process. 15 MR. GRECO: My name is Matt 16 Greco and I'm with McNally Engineering. I'm a 17 partner. 18 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Can you spell 19 your name for the record? 20 MR. GRECO: G-R-E-C-O. 21 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: And do you 22 mind just being sworn in from our attorney? 23 (Matt Greco is duly sworn). 24 MR. CALVANICO: Thank you. 25 MR. GRECO: The project, I - 32 - 1 think, speaks of -- 2 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I'm sorry; can 3 you just speak into the microphone? 4 MR. GRECO: Yes. The project 5 Mr. Sherger speaks of is on Secaucus Road, on the 6 east side of Secaucus Road and it abuts up to Pen 7 Horn Creek. It is, for lack of a better term, it's 8 a parking lot for Mr. Sherger's truck rental 9 business. It is -- there's not much to it, other 10 than it's a parking lot. It's paved, for the most 11 part. There's a small building, approximately -- 12 what is 300 -- 400 square feet or so that he runs 13 his office out of to rent the vehicles. 14 We've been to the Meadowlands 15 Commission and received zoning approval from them. 16 We've been to the Hudson County Soil Conservation 17 District and also received their certification. And 18 we've addressed, I believe, Medina's letters or 19 their comments on their review of the project as 20 well. Not much else to it. 21 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Could you just 22 make sure that we get copies of the approval from 23 the Meadowlands Commission? 24 MR. GRECO: Absolutely. 25 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Thank you. - 33 - 1 MR. ARENCIBIA: Can you just 2 talk a little bit about the driveways and how you're 3 going to be using the site? 4 MR. GRECO: Sure. There's one 5 driveway that's used for access to the site, it's on 6 the southern end of our site. We've calculated out 7 the site distances to make sure it complies with the 8 county's requirements. I don't -- 9 MR. ARENCIBIA: How wide is the 10 driveway? 11 MR. GRECO: The driveway is 12 twenty-four feet wide. 13 MR. ARENCIBIA: And it's the 14 only driveway you'll have for the site? 15 MR. GRECO: That's correct. 16 It's one driveway in and out. There's not a lot of 17 traffic in and out in this -- 18 MR. SHERGER: I was just going 19 to address that. We were asked this question once 20 before. Not as far as the access itself but what 21 kind of volume we'd be looking at. And even in our 22 Wayne location on a busy day we only have twenty- 23 five to thirty reservations. So we don't anticipate 24 much more than that happening in Secaucus. We would 25 love for it to become somewhat bigger, of course. - 34 - 1 But it's not, like, a very active retail operation 2 where people are coming in and out all the time. 3 MR. GRECO: And the size of the 4 trucks are roughly -- 5 MR. SHERGER: Fourteen -- 6 commonly known as a fourteen foot box truck. The 7 overall length is about twenty-one feet 8 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: What type of 9 clients do you service? Is it more residential 10 people moving or is it businesses? 11 MR. SHERGER: Anyone who can 12 afford to pay us we'll take care of. I would say 13 our mix of business is eighty-five percent 14 commercial and fifteen percent individual, so to 15 speak, to the general public. 16 In New York City we've, kind of, 17 become the standard for -- in the movie industry. 18 Whenever movies or commercials are made in New York, 19 because we're twenty-four hours in New York, seven 20 days a week, many companies are going out to shoot 21 commercials or videos in New York that need to move 22 camera, crew, props and so on around have come to 23 start -- you know, they use us pretty heavily. 24 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: The reason I'm 25 asking is, do you need a CDL license to operate - 35 - 1 these trucks? 2 MR. SHERGER: No, everything we 3 buy we make sure is non-CDL. 4 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: All right. 5 And what are your hours of operation? 6 MR. SHERGER: In New York City 7 we're twenty-four hours, seven days a week. In 8 Wayne we're seven days a week, 7 to 6 PM five days a 9 week and weekends 7 to 12. I would anticipate 10 something like that in Secaucus. 11 MR. ARENCIBIA: Mr. Chairman, we 12 have a representative from Medina here too, maybe we 13 should get his comments as well. 14 MR. REIMON: Edwin Reimon from 15 Medina Consultants. We issued one set of comments 16 to this application in July. The comments were 17 addressed in August. We issued a letter on August 18 10th. In that letter that we issued on August 10 we 19 stated that the comments, the general comments, one 20 through three were addressed by the applicant. 21 The drainage comments, also, two 22 through four were also addressed by the applicant. 23 And we issued a new comment based on our last 24 meeting here in the Hudson County Planning Board 25 monthly workshop meeting. The comment is, it's not - 36 - 1 really a comment it's actually a statement. That 2 the applicant should pay a maximum of 25,000 dollars 3 to the improvements to the pump station for the Penn 4 Horn Creek since this project is actually dumping 5 water -- substation water into the creek. I'd 6 recommend that this applicant actually pay this -- a 7 contribution to these improvements. The amount of 8 the contribution should be assessed by the board or 9 by the engineers. 10 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Have we come 11 up with a formula yet? 12 MR. ARENCIBIA: Well, we're -- 13 just got the report in for the Penn Horn Creek pump 14 station and the engineer's estimate is -- is about 15 2.8 million dollars. 16 MR. HOLLOWAY: I'm sorry, how 17 much was that? 18 MR. ARENCIBIA: The engineer's 19 estimate for the new pump station would be around 20 2.8 million dollars. It's still very preliminary 21 but we still have to meet with them and come up with 22 the final design and get a final estimate. But 23 that's around the number that we're looking at. So 24 I think that's something we'll discuss with Steve 25 Marks and try to develop a formula. But I think - 37 - 1 it's reasonable. We've been asking this request 2 from all the property owners that are in that Penn 3 Horn Creek watershed area. And 25,000 has been the 4 limit on the smaller size developments. 5 MR. REIMON: We also need a 6 clarification on one small item. Looking at the 7 board that he presented, I would like to know if -- 8 what is the name -- if there is a street across from 9 the driveway or if it's -- across the street from 10 your entrance, do you have, actually -- this 11 driveway is -- that's what we need to clarify if it 12 is a street or it's a driveway for the private 13 property. 14 MR. SHERGER: This is a 15 driveway. 16 MR. TRIDENTE: Henry Street is 17 further south. 18 MR. REIMON: All right. That's 19 what we need to know. 20 MR. ARENCIBIA: Are they doing 21 any new sidewalks or curbs along the road? 22 MR. REIMON: Yes, they are 23 putting a new curb and sidewalk and we've requested 24 that the sidewalk should also include handicapped 25 ramps and (indiscernible) surfaces. - 38 - 1 MR. ARENCIBIA: Okay. All 2 right. 3 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Any other 4 questions? Are you familiar with the Penn Horn 5 Creek pump station? 6 MR. SHERGER: Yes, we've been 7 apprised of the situation. All the landowners are 8 going to have to contribute somewhere along the 9 line. 10 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: As 11 Commissioner Arancibia said, we've been asking all 12 the applicants in that neighborhood that have an 13 effect on that or have an impact on the pump, you 14 know, the Penn Horn Creek pump station. So you're 15 okay with that? 16 MR. SHERGER: I'm okay with it. 17 You know, the terms -- the figures that have been 18 thrown around are a maximum of 25,000. We haven't 19 heard minimums yet but, you know, we understand that 20 it's all in the formulation stages and, you know, 21 we're certainly amenable to whatever the Freeholders 22 come up with. 23 MR. ARENCIBIA: All right. 24 You'd rather take the position of giving you a 25 higher number than coming in and saying 6,000 -- - 39 - 1 MR. SHERGER: No, I understand. 2 MR. ARENCIBIA: -- and then you 3 get his with twenty-five. 4 MR. SHERGER: Six thousand, you 5 said? 6 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Any other 7 questions? 8 MR. TRIDENTE: At this point in 9 time do you have vehicles parked on the lot? 10 MR. SHERGER: Yes, we do. 11 MR. TRIDENTE: You've received 12 permission from the city to park those vehicles on 13 there? 14 MR. SHERGER: I received 15 permission from the Meadowlands Commission. 16 MR. TRIDENTE: I know there's a 17 lot of vehicles parked on there and you don't have 18 direct access so you're utilizing a driveway that's 19 off to the side? It's probably a little unsafe to 20 have these big trucks making a turn like that. 21 MR. SHERGER: There's not a lot 22 of movement. I mean, they're just basically there 23 as -- as, you know, it's a storage area. I 24 certainly do not -- 25 MR. TRIDENTE: There's a lot of - 40 - 1 vehicles parked in there also. 2 MR. SHERGER: Yeah, I know. 3 Yeah. When I say storage, I mean vehicle storage 4 for us for vehicles that are not out on rent. It's 5 not -- they're not coming and going but we do have 6 the -- an authorization from the Meadowlands 7 Commission to let them sit for a period of time. 8 MR. TRIDENTE: I have a 9 photograph here of where a truck would not be able 10 to navigate that -- that turn that they have to 11 utilize for the driveway, they would have to jump 12 the curb and we need to put a stop to that. 13 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: What do you 14 recommend? 15 MR. TRIDENTE: At the end of the 16 driveway you don't have -- you have pedestrian 17 sidewalk there and then you have trucks that can't 18 make that turn, that right-hand turn and then a left 19 where the driveway is, which is about another, 20 maybe, twenty feet west of that road and then 21 they're just jumping the curb and just going right 22 onto Secaucus Road. That could be an issue. 23 MR. REIMON: What we did is, we 24 have a template software in the office that we use 25 for the W-40s and W-50s. We have them include in - 41 - 1 the plans the radius of the curb returns. So we put 2 the template for the W-50s and he can make the turn 3 with a W-50. Now, if he got a W-62 -- 4 MR. TRIDENTE: Not the way 5 it's -- not the way it stands right now. 6 MR. RIEMON: Yeah, that is -- 7 MR. TRIDENTE: The driveway -- 8 the driveway is further west and where the road is, 9 like, maybe fifteen, twenty feet they're not going 10 to make this turn they're going to just jump right 11 off of the curb. They're not going to make the 12 driveway. 13 MR. RIEMON: I'm talking about 14 the proposed condition. 15 MR. TRIDENTE: The proposed, but 16 I'm saying as it is now there's vehicles parked on 17 the site and they are utilizing the curb and the 18 sidewalk to gain exit and -- egress and ingress out 19 of the site. But it is a narrow unpaved path. 20 MR. RIEMON: That is an unsafe 21 condition. 22 MR. TRIDENTE: Yes, it is an 23 unsafe condition. That's what I'm saying. 24 MR. RIEMON: But I don't know, 25 if they have a permit to use the site, right now, - 42 - 1 for storage. 2 MR. TRIDENTE: Well, we're going 3 to have to look into that. 4 MR. SHERGER: We don't have a 5 permit to use the site. What we have is a letter 6 from Mr. Brad Miller at the Meadowlands commission 7 saying that we -- we have a pending violation. We 8 were sent a violation notice by the Meadowlands 9 Commission about the trucks being parked on that 10 property. We did gain access to that property, not 11 through -- I know my people haven't gone over that 12 road. For we -- we gained access, initially, 13 through one of our neighbors. 14 MR. TRIDENTE: Right. 15 MR. SHERGER: Who let us come 16 across his property and park? We were sent a 17 pending violation notice, at which time I e-mailed 18 Brad Miller, explained to him, you know, we've been 19 going through the proper processes here, as far as 20 making applications to the various agencies and we 21 certainly want to live by the rules. 22 MR. TRIDENTE: Absolutely. 23 MR. SHERGER: And we don't want 24 to start off on the wrong foot. But our problem is, 25 you know, we just -- we own 700 rental vehicles and - 43 - 1 there's times that things get ugly, when we get a 2 little slow and there's just nowhere to put them. 3 And I explained that's what was happening here. 4 Brad let us -- we originally had a -- a date of July 5 31st to remedy the situation. And he did, in fact, 6 give us an extension, not an indefinite extension 7 but there's no time period on it. 8 One other comment on that is 9 that once we start the site work, which -- you know, 10 once we get through the entire approval process, and 11 hopefully in a week we're told we can go ahead with 12 this, obviously we can't do any site development 13 with our vehicles being there. So I've made 14 arrangements, as soon as our site work starts, 15 obviously the vehicles have got to leave. So this 16 situation is going to remedy itself as soon as we 17 get the go ahead to begin the work. 18 You know, the Meadowlands 19 Commission has, in fact, told us to go ahead. This, 20 obviously, is another step in the process. 21 MR. TRIDENTE: All right. But 22 what I do see is this high -- this high vegetation 23 that's blocking the vision to the east of Secaucus 24 Road. And maybe if you were able to cut that back 25 by ten feet you'd be able to improve the site - 44 - 1 visibility along that road in case a kid with a 2 bicycle was coming down the street and a truck was 3 coming out -- 4 MR. SHERGER: Okay. 5 MR. TRIDENTE: I mean, he is 6 crossing the sidewalk and he's jumping the curb, and 7 you know it is somewhat of a residential area. 8 MR. SHERGER: I'll have that 9 done within the next couple of days. 10 MR. TRIDENTE: All right. 11 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Thank you, 12 Mario. Thank you. 13 MR. RIEMON: (Indiscernible). 14 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Edwin, I'm 15 sorry. We're going to need you -- 16 MR. RIEMON: It's very hard for 17 me to actually point out -- I need to know, in the 18 present condition, where the vegetation is, where 19 the cars are coming out, coming in. 20 MR. TRIDENTE: Up in this area. 21 Because this is the adjoining property. 22 MR. RIEMON: So he's using a 23 driveway that doesn't belong to his property? 24 MR. TRIDENTE: Right. And he's 25 making a sharp right and then a hard left to go back - 45 - 1 here where they have a cleared area where they have, 2 somewhat, maybe forty vehicles parked back there -- 3 thirty, forty vehicles. 4 MR. RIEMON: All right. So -- 5 MR. TRIDENTE: If east of the 6 sign that they have coming soon, C.C. Rentals, if 7 they would cut back all the vegetation, because it 8 is really high -- 9 MR. RIEMON: Improve sight 10 distance. 11 MR. TRIDENTE: Just until they 12 start the work on the sight because right now we do 13 have a hazardous condition. 14 MR. RIEMON: But beyond that, I 15 think that they should replace curb and sidewalk. 16 MR. TRIDENTE: Absolutely. 17 MR. RIEMON: Up to the limit of 18 where these trucks are coming in and out. Because 19 that sidewalk is going to be damaged by -- by this 20 traffic anyway. And I don't know if it's beyond the 21 limit of the property but you're pointing out that 22 they're going up to the driveway to the next-door 23 neighbor. 24 MR. TRIDENTE: Well, the big 25 trucks are jumping the curb. There's visible signs - 46 - 1 of the trucks jumping the curb just to go on to 2 Secaucus Road. 3 MR. RIEMON: So it's actually -- 4 can you -- 5 MR. TRIDENTE: It's hard for 6 them to navigate the turn to make the left and then 7 the right off -- 8 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: All right. 9 Gentlemen -- gentlemen -- gentlemen, excuse me. I 10 think we have it resolved to the extent that the new 11 site plan -- he is in agreement, the property 12 owner's in agreement to cut the vegetation so let's 13 not beat a dead horse at this point. 14 MR. RIEMON: No, what I just 15 want to point out is that the limit of new curb and 16 sidewalk should extend, maybe, beyond the limit of 17 the property if the trucks are disturbing curb and 18 sidewalk in areas that are not part of the site 19 plan. You see, they're accessing the property 20 through a driveway that may be outside the limits of 21 the site plan. 22 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Then maybe we 23 should table this and there should be more 24 discussion on it if that's the case. 25 MR. RIEMON: No, it's a simple - 47 - 1 thing. It's just -- 2 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: It doesn't 3 seem that way right now. 4 MR. GRECO: I'm sure Mr. Sherger 5 would be willing to go -- I can meet with Mr. Reimon 6 at the site and inspect curbing and sidewalk. And 7 if anything is damaged, we'd -- I'm sure we'd be 8 willing to repair it. 9 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Safety's a big 10 concern for the board, as well as Mr. Tridente. So 11 whatever we can do to resolve this let's agree on it 12 and can we get it down and move forward? 13 MR. RIEMON: Absolutely. 14 MR. HOLLOWAY: Mr. Chairman, I 15 have a question if you don't mind? I understand you 16 said you bought this property a year ago? 17 MR. SHERGER: The exact date I 18 don't know. I'm guessing last September, somewhere 19 around there, September, October. 20 MR. HOLLOWAY: I'm looking at a 21 picture. It looks like half the property's a dump. 22 MR. SHERGER: I'm sorry, sir? 23 MR. HOLLOWAY: It looks like a 24 dump. Like abandoned vehicles, containers, is that 25 your property too? - 48 - 1 MR. SHERGER: Yeah. Well there 2 was -- when I bought the property there was a 3 container on it. 4 MR. HOLLOWAY: There's more than 5 one container here. Mario, if you can just -- 6 MR. TIRDENTE: Yeah, that's the 7 adjoining -- you're looking at -- you're talking 8 about the aerial photograph? 9 MR. HOLLOWAY: Yeah. 10 MR. TRIDENTE: No, that's the 11 adjoining site. 12 MR. HOLLOWAY: Which site is 13 this? Okay. You got to let me know that because it 14 looks like -- I'm sorry. 15 MR. GRECO: That's not your 16 property. 17 MR. HOLLOWAY: It wasn't lined 18 out so I though this -- 19 MR. SHERGER: My neighbors are - 20 - not to complain they're both very nice guys but 21 through the years, since this has been, like, a 22 vacant lot there's been some creeping going on, if 23 you know what I mean. 24 MR. HOLLOWAY: Okay. I 25 apologize. I thought this part was yours. - 49 - 1 MR. SHERGER: We've all had a 2 nice talk and they -- we had surveyors, we were all 3 there together and everybody's singing out of the 4 same hymn book. They're great guys. 5 MR. HOLLOWAY: I apologize. 6 MR. SHERGER: Not a problem. 7 MR. HOLLOWAY: I don't want you 8 talking about the neighbors. 9 MR. ARENCIBIA: So Mr. Chairman, 10 I just want to make it clear that the applicant's 11 going to meet with Medina Consultants to really look 12 at the driveway, the turning condition, and try to 13 make the situation a little better to make sure we 14 don't have this problem continue. 15 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Thank you. 16 Any other questions? Do I have a motion? 17 MS. BETTINGER: I'll make a 18 motion. 19 MS. DIDOMENICO: I'll second. 20 MR. ASCOLESE: SP-40-07 C.C. 21 Rental, 230 Secaucus Road on a motion from 22 Commissioner Bettinger, seconded by Commissioner 23 DiDomenico. Commissioner Arencibia? 24 MR. ARENCIBIA: Aye. 25 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner - 50 - 1 Avagliano? 2 MS. AVAGLIANO: Aye. 3 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 4 Bettinger? 5 MS. BETTINGER: I vote aye, with 6 the condition that you meet with our engineering 7 consultants, Medina. 8 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 9 DiDomenico? 10 MS. DIDOMENICO: Aye. 11 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 12 Holloway? 13 MR. HOLLOWAY: Aye. 14 MR. ASCOLESE: Chairman Choffo? 15 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I vote aye. 16 MR. ASCOLESE: Motion carried. 17 MR. SHERGER: Thank you. 18 MR. GRECO: Thank you. 19 MR. ASCOLESE: Thank you, sir. 20 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I believe we 21 still have people sitting in the audience. 22 MR. ASCOLESE: Mr. Chairman, we 23 have George Casino, he's an engineer representing 24 the Mori application. Perhaps we can get a motion 25 to -- remove the table and -- - 51 - 1 MR. ARENCIBIA: Motion to re- 2 table. 3 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Did you make a 4 motion? 5 MR. ARENCIBIA: I'll make a 6 motion to put the Mori application back on the 7 table. 8 MS. BETTINGER: I'll second the 9 motion. 10 MR. ASCOLESE: On a motion to 11 reconsider application SP-30-07, Mori Properties, 12 Patterson Plank Road, Secaucus, introduced by 13 Commissioner Arencibia and seconded by Commissioner 14 Bettinger. Commissioner Arencibia? 15 MR. ARENCIBIA: Aye. 16 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 17 Avagliano? 18 MS. AVAGLIANO: Aye. 19 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 20 Bettinger? 21 MS. BETTINGER: Aye. 22 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner 23 DiDomenico? 24 MS. DIDOMENICO: Aye. 25 MR. ASCOLESE: Commissioner - 52 - 1 Holloway? 2 MR. HOLLOWAY: Aye. 3 MR. ASCOLESE: Chairman Choffo? 4 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I vote aye. 5 MR. ASCOLESE: Motion to 6 reconsider carries. 7 MR. CASINO: Good evening. My 8 name is George Casino. I'm a consulting engineering 9 planner representing Mr. Mori this evening. First I 10 want to apologize for causing you to vote twice 11 before I even got here. I was unavoidably detained, 12 as they say. 13 I'm here this evening to 14 represent Mori Properties. 15 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Excuse me, one 16 second. Could you just be sworn in? 17 (George Casino is duly sworn) 18 MR. CASINO: Mr. Chairman, I had 19 the pleasure of appearing here on two applications a 20 few months ago. And at those particular 21 applications you did accept me as an engineer and a 22 planner. 23 Again, I represent Eugene Mori, 24 the owner of certain properties in Secaucus and 25 North Bergen, New Jersey. Specifically, Mr. Mori - 53 - 1 owns a 154 acre parcel located in Secaucus and 2 fronting on Patterson Plank Road. Mr. Mori has 3 submitted an application to various agencies for 4 certain approvals on his property. Specifically, he 5 applied to the New Jersey Meadowlands Commission for 6 permission to fill and upland portion at the rear of 7 his property of approximately eight acres. 8 In the Meadowlands' review of 9 the application they're require that since we were 10 fronting on a county road that we apply to the 11 county for a curb cut permit. We did that, to the 12 engineer's office. During their review the 13 engineer's office advised us that we had to appear 14 before the Hudson County Planning Board, make 15 application to them for approval to do the filing on 16 the property. Hence, the reason we're here tonight. 17 We submitted an application to 18 fill about eight acres of property from its present 19 elevation of approximately six feet above sea level 20 to an elevation of about ten to eleven feet above 21 sea level. It would involve filling, 22 approximately -- with fill amounting to about 50,000 23 yards. In English, that means about ten trucks a 24 day carrying forty yards each for about five to six 25 months, in order to raise the property to an - 54 - 1 elevation for future development. There are no 2 plans pending before Hudson County or the 3 Meadowlands Commission for the development of this 4 property. The only plans under review by them, and 5 by Hudson County, are to raise the elevations of the 6 property for future development. We understand that 7 we have to come back, not only to the Meadowlands 8 but to Hudson County to receive further approvals in 9 the future. 10 The plan right now, again, is on a 11 portion of the property that is uplands. It was 12 delineated as uplands by the Army Corp of Engineers 13 and presently has a jurisdictional determination 14 that says it is uplands. It is our plan to, kind 15 of, reopen a curb cut on Patterson Plank Road that 16 during the course of construction over the years, 17 kind of, got recurbed and, kind of, left us without 18 a curb cut for access to our property. It is our 19 only access. We have about 600 feet fronting 20 Patterson Plank Road, and is the only access to our 21 property from any public roads. Hence the reason 22 we'd like to formally reopen that curb cut in the 23 location we're showing on the plan in order to allow 24 the trucks that would fill the property access to 25 the site. - 55 - 1 I'm prepared to get into further 2 detail on that if you'd like that. I've got a 3 series of plans that I've submitted that might be 4 helpful to the board. 5 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Could you 6 please show the board? 7 MR. CASINO: Yes. 8 MR. HOLLOWAY: Mr. Chairman, 9 before he begins if he could just go over how many 10 trucks a day for how long? Just slowly because I 11 write very slow. 12 MR. CASINO: Ten trucks per day, 13 over a ten hour day, or approximately one truck per 14 hour. Each truck carrying forty yards. 15 MR. HOLLOWAY: Forty yards. And 16 how long a period? 17 MR. CASINO: Five to six months. 18 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Is that all 19 you're going to have is ten trucks a day? 20 MR. CASINO: Yes. 21 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Why? 22 MR. CASINO: Why? Because 23 getting clean fill is not so easy. Getting junky 24 fill is very easy. But we have to -- in order to -- 25 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Mr. Casino, - 56 - 1 I'm sorry, can you just speak into the microphone. 2 MR. CASINO: Okay. The 3 property, as you're looking at this map, east is on 4 your -- I'm sorry, north is on your right, Patterson 5 Plank Road is on the west end of the map and the 6 property is L shaped. It runs from Patterson Plank 7 Road and then, kind of, makes a (indiscernible) left 8 for your golfers. 9 The area shown in green are 10 those areas that have been delineated by the Army 11 Corps of Engineers as being uplands. And the areas 12 shown in red are those portions which we've conceded 13 are wetlands. The front sixty-two acres of the 14 property bordered in blue are zoned by the 15 Meadowlands Commission for regional commercial, for 16 approximately sixty-two acres. 17 While the -- there had been past 18 applications to the Meadowlands to develop the 19 property, those approvals previously rendered 20 expired and they're no longer in effect. So we're 21 back to square one for the future development of the 22 property. That is why our proposal tonight, in 23 anticipation of future development, is to fill the 24 rear portion, which I'll show. In the rear of the 25 property, approximately eight acres, it's bordered - 57 - 1 by Harmon Meadow on the west, by Ramako Creek (ph.) 2 on the north and the east and to the south by the 3 balance of Mr. Mori's property. 4 Access to the site from 5 Patterson Plank Road will traverse it's entire 6 length through uplands and would not intrude on any 7 portions that are claimed by the Army Corps of 8 Engineers as wetlands. We'd be traveling over 9 property that was previously filled starting in the 10 1960s before any governments regulated anything. 11 We did get subsequent approvals 12 from the Meadowlands Commission and the 13 Hudson/Essex/Passaic Soil Conservation District to 14 fill the major portion in the front of the property 15 of thirty-six acres. Those portions were filled 16 after getting permits from the representative 17 agencies. And, I guess, that was back in the mid- 18 90s. Now, our application to Hudson County, of 19 course, is to fill the rear portion raising it up in 20 grade. 21 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Okay. Mr. 22 Casino, can you just document that? 23 MR. CALVANICO: Just identify 24 the document. 25 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Yeah. - 58 - 1 MR. CASINO: Okay. I'm sorry. 2 The first document I spoke of was not previously 3 submitted to Hudson County. It's entitled 4 Developable Area Map for Mori Track, prepared by 5 myself and its dated July 27, 2007. 6 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: We'll call 7 that Exhibit 1, or A-1. 8 (Developable Area Map for Mori Track 9 is marked as A-1 for identification.) 10 MR. CASINO: The second map, 11 which was submitted as part of our application, is 12 entitled Proposed Access and Fill Location Plan. It 13 was prepared, again, by me. It's dated September 14 15, 2005 and it has revisions through June 15, 2007. 15 There are a number of revisions that were made to 16 this plan after review by planning board staff and 17 by your consultant T & M. 18 (Proposed Access and Fill Location 19 Plan is marked as A-2 for identification.) 20 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: All right. 21 Can you just mark both of them? 22 MR. CASINO: You want me to? 23 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Yeah, if you 24 don't mind. 25 MR. CASINO: What do you want to - 59 - 1 call the first one? 2 MS. BETTINGER: Exhibit 1. 3 MR. CASINO: Exhibit 1. The 4 second exhibit, A-2, depicts the location of the 5 curb cut we're proposing off of Patterson Plank 6 Road. All access we've proposed to and from the 7 site are by right-hand turn only. You can only 8 access it by traveling west on Patterson Plank Road 9 and making a right-hand turn into our property. You 10 are then going out 1,000 feet along our proposed 11 access road to the rear of the property. And when 12 you exit you can only make a right-hand turn out of 13 the site and you'd have to go into the jug handle at 14 Patterson Plank Road and Route 3 in order to return 15 back to the east to Route 1 and 9. 16 We're proposing to basically 17 improve that thirty-foot -- there's an existing 18 thirty foot traveled way there, what we want to do 19 is improve it with better fill. We're not going to 20 pave it or even bring in stone, just good enough 21 quality fill to accommodate the fill trucks to get 22 to the rear of the property. 23 The other plan, which I won't 24 even use unless I have to, was a second plan 25 submitted to the county which was the plan for soil - 60 - 1 erosion and sediment control which we need approval 2 of before we can do the fill operation. The 3 Meadowlands said to us, don't bother -- we've got 4 all of the obstacles out of the way with the 5 Meadowlands except one. And that was the approval 6 from Hudson County. So assuming we get that 7 approval, we will then submit that to the 8 Meadowlands Commission and hopefully get our full 9 application approved. 10 That's pretty much it. So I'll 11 be happy to answer any questions for you in relation 12 to it. We did get to findings letters from T & M. 13 We responded to them. They asked questions about 14 site distance and design issues such as that and we 15 did respond to those and send in revised plans to 16 the board. 17 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: All right. 18 Before we get to T & M, I want to ask the 19 commissioners if they have any questions. 20 MR. HOLLOWAY: Mr. Chairman, I 21 have several questions. I don't know if I did my 22 math right, but we're looking at about 1,750 loads. 23 MR. CASINO: Whatever -- take 24 50,000 and divide it by forty, whatever that number 25 is. I can do it for you. - 61 - 1 MR. HOLLOWAY: That's all right. 2 Okay. Oh look, I gave him a little extra. The 3 concern -- another concern of mine is, are you going 4 to control the dust and the mud from the tires 5 coming off that property onto Patterson Plank Road? 6 MR. CASINO: There's two issues 7 we have to deal with there. Number one is meeting 8 the requirements of soil conservation. What they 9 make us do is put in tracking pads to do that. If 10 necessary, we will maintain necessary street 11 sweeping equipment to make sure. But remember, 12 after they leave our site they're going to be going 13 on 1,000 feet of roadway. And then before they get 14 to Patterson Plank Road they'll be going over a 15 tracking pad. So that tracking pad, the whole 16 reason soil conservation requires that is to avoid 17 bringing mud onto the road. But I won't tell you 18 it's going to be perfect. So if there's any 19 problems that do ensue, whether we get a call from 20 Hudson County or the Meadowlands, we'll send out a 21 litter truck to sweep the street. 22 MR. ARENCIBIA: If I may, Mr. 23 Commissioner, I just want to stress that we've had 24 other projects that they've filled the sites, and I 25 can name FDP as an example, where they ran into - 62 - 1 problems and the road, you know, was dirty after the 2 trucks. And then they -- they did sweep them but 3 it's an ongoing problem. It just kept, you know, 4 there was a constant sweeper on the road, mostly 5 every day. But that was on Secaucus Road and this 6 part of Patterson Plank Road is much more heavily 7 traveled because Route 3. And you're not going to 8 have that room, really, with all the traffic that's 9 around there during the middle of the day to sweep 10 the street, you know, cleanly. It's going to be 11 really a problem. So I think there has to be more 12 of an effort to make sure the trucks are cleaned off 13 on the site, before they get on the road. 14 MR. CASINO: Well, what we could 15 do -- let me just look at the plan, one second. Now 16 I think I will enter into the -- as an exhibit the 17 third -- the second plan we submitted to the county. 18 It's entitled Soil Erosion and Sediment Control 19 Plan. Again it was prepared by me. It's dated 20 September 15, 2005. First I'll mark it as A-3. 21 (Soil Erosion and Sediment Control 22 Plan is marked as A-3 for identification.) 23 MR. CASINO: The reason I wanted 24 to mark this particular plan into evidence tonight 25 is that this is the plan that we have to submit to - 63 - 1 soil erosion and sediment control. And what it 2 depicts on it is a 200 foot long, thirty-foot wide, 3 stabilized entrance before you get to Patterson 4 Plank Road. That stabilized entrance must meet the 5 requirements of the Soil Conservation District. 6 The idea of their standards is to 7 avoid the problem Mr. Arencibia is stating. If 8 there were a problem, even with that stabilized 9 entrance, what I would do, and I guess I am the site 10 engineer so what I would recommend to the client is 11 that we pave that last 200 feet to make sure that if 12 anybody's going to get mud it's going to be us. And 13 we'd be willing to do that to try to go along and 14 put in a truck wash or something like that tends to 15 create more problems than it solves with runoff and 16 dirt and mud and things like that. So I'd rather 17 hope that the board would be willing to let us go 18 with what -- any conditions Soil Conservation would 19 place on us. If that doesn't work, upon 20 notification from the county engineer, we'd hire a 21 paver to go in there and pave that road for the last 22 200 feet. And if that doesn't solve it, we're doing 23 something wrong at the site, to be quite honest. 24 That should have solved it. I don't know if that 25 answers your question a little better. - 64 - 1 MR. ARENCIBIA: I just wanted to 2 make it clear, you know, it's a very busy road. 3 There's a lot of accidents on that road. And that's 4 without any silt that could come off the trucks and 5 make the roadway very slippery. So I'm just 6 thinking from a safety, liability standpoint that 7 you've got to make sure that your trucks are clean 8 when they get onto Patterson Plank Road. 9 If they are dirty and we have a 10 problem, you run the risk of -- of having your 11 operation shut down by the local police. 12 MR. CASINO: We understand that. 13 MR. HOLLOWAY: Mr. Chairman, do 14 you happen to know the time of year you're going to 15 be doing this? 16 MR. CASINO: Well, we're 17 planning July of 2006. It is now August of 2007. 18 Assuming we get approval here, we have to go back to 19 the Meadowlands Commission, back to Soil 20 Conservation. We may or may not need a soil 21 conservaton -- a stream and (indiscernible) permit. 22 I would say spring of next year is my estimate. 23 MR. HOLLOWAY: Spring? Because 24 my concern was if it was during the winter time and 25 you're spraying off the tires, obviously the tires - 65 - 1 will still have water on it. And once it gets to 2 Patterson Plank Road, the drainage is going to 3 freeze. 4 MR. CASINO: We'd want to avoid 5 filling during the winter months. 6 MR. HOLLOWAY: Thank you. 7 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Any other 8 questions? 9 MS. BETTINGER: Counselor, can 10 we make that a stipulation that they don't start in 11 the winter months? 12 MR. CALVANICO: We can add any 13 reasonable conditions that we -- that the board 14 deems necessary. 15 MR. CASINO: We have no 16 problem -- 17 MR. HOLLOWAY: I think one of 18 the concerns the board has is safety. When all this 19 mud or dirt, even dust, you start working and you 20 forget about it and every day goes by and all of a 21 sudden now there's an inch of dirt. Now there's 22 three inches of dirt against the curb and cars are 23 trying to avoid it and they get into accidents. 24 MR. CASINO: Well let me again 25 state, the area of the filling is, like, a quarter - 66 - 1 of a mile from Patterson Plank Road. 2 MR. HOLLOWAY: I understand 3 that. 4 MR. CASINO: So the activity 5 involved with the filling or any dust activity -- 6 the actual filling you won't even know is going on 7 from Patterson Plank Road. But it is true that when 8 that truck enters and exits the site it could cause 9 localized trouble there from the actual truck 10 operation as opposed to the fill operation. 11 MR. HOLLOWAY: Right. 12 MR. CASINO: And that's why we 13 want to make sure that stabilized entrance is 14 maintained correctly or paved if necessary. 15 MR. HOLLOWAY: Are these dump 16 trucks? 17 MR. CASINO: They're big tandem 18 trucks. They're not your standard -- they wouldn't 19 be the standard dump trucks. That's not our goal. 20 We want to cut down the amount of traffic so our 21 goal is to take in the forty-yard tandem trucks 22 rather than the typical seventeen or eighteen-yard 23 dump truck. 24 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Does that 25 answer your question or -- Commissioner Arencibia, - 67 - 1 about the 200 feet if they were to pave it? 2 MR. ARENCIBIA: That would be a 3 good suggestion and, you know, I think the applicant 4 understands the severity of the traffic on that 5 road. I think, maybe, we ought to let our 6 consultant, T & M Associates, add some more comments 7 to this. 8 MR. KLEIN: Good evening. Lee 9 Klein from T & M Associates. Listening to the 10 discussion I think we'd want to recommend a wheel 11 washing station and I think the 200 foot of gravel, 12 of construction driveway, I think that's a minimum. 13 And I think we can require a longer distance which 14 would also help in the getting the -- the debris off 15 the truck wheels by the time they get out to 16 Patterson Plank Road. Between that and the washing 17 station we should have a much better situation. 18 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: How much of an 19 increase would you recommend, Lee? 20 MR. KLEIN: I figure that if 21 they double it, maybe, to 400 feet would be enough. 22 We could get the length where the trucks will be 23 vibrating over the crushed stone; some of it will be 24 falling off by itself and then the wheel washing 25 station. And then they can drive a little bit - 68 - 1 further and the dripping off the tires and then it 2 should be okay by the time we get to Patterson Plank 3 Road. 4 MS. BETTINGER: Uh-huh. 5 MR. ARENCIBIA: I'm not sure if 6 Mr. Casino can, on the owner's behalf, accept that. 7 Can we get your -- 8 MR. CASINO: On the owner's 9 behalf I can accept the 400 foot long stabilized 10 entrance. But I can't accept the wheel washing 11 station until I learn a little bit more what it is. 12 I'm not that familiar with it. So I'm not going to 13 commit until I see a detail or a picture or 14 something about it and then I can give you answer. 15 MR. ARENCIBIA: It's set up 16 with, you know, water spraying on to it. J 17 MR. HOLLOWAY: Just to knock the 18 heavy mud or dirt off the wheels that's in the 19 crevice of the tires. 20 MR. CASINO: Okay. 21 MS. BETTINGER: But then you 22 would have to hire someone to be there to -- 23 MR. HOLLOWAY: Well, that's the 24 point. 25 MR. CASINO: What might be - 69 - 1 tougher than that, we'd have to get water there 2 first. You can't have a washing station unless we 3 have water, okay. We need someone to operate it so 4 I'd have to find out -- 5 MS. BETTINGER: It's doable. 6 MR. HOLLOWAY: A water tanker. 7 MR. CASINO: That's why I can't 8 commit on that, because I don't know what it 9 involves. It certainly involves getting water there 10 either from public water or on a water truck. 11 MR. ARENCIBIA: I believe -- I 12 believe -- 13 MR. HOLLOWAY: I want you to 14 understand, I'm trying to be -- 15 MR. CASINO: I understand. 16 MR. ARENCIBIA: The water, I 17 believe is recycled. I don't believe you're allowed 18 to discharge the water into the sewer it has to be 19 recycled. That's -- from my understanding with a 20 truck wash is -- is, you know, you have to reuse the 21 water. 22 MS. BETTINGER: Wow. 23 MR. CASINO: I'm saying that 24 it's difficult for me to commit on that because I 25 don't know really what it entails. - 70 - 1 MR. ARENCIBIA: It's a big job. 2 MR. CASINO: its one thing to 3 agree to pave a further length and higher a street 4 sweeper, but to put in a -- a temporary -- what 5 would be a temporary washing station where we -- I 6 know we can't discharge it. You can't discharge 7 that water. That's illegal. So you've got to 8 collect it and somehow treat it before you discharge 9 it or treat it before you put it back in the truck. 10 I'd have to do further investigation on that. 11 That's all I could say. 12 MR. ARENCIBIA: All right. 13 Well, I'm sure you're going to have some days which 14 are going to be, you know, wet. You might have mud 15 and that's -- even with the tracking pad, just going 16 to be close to impossible to get rid of all the mud. 17 You're going to need some type of wash and a system 18 in place before the trucks are on the road. 19 MR. CASINO: Well, the only 20 thing I could ask the board to do, if you'd be 21 willing is, I'm willing to sit down with Mr. Klein, 22 subject to a condition that's placed by the board, 23 to work out some kind of a -- I'll call it a washing 24 station for lack of a better term, that's acceptable 25 to him. And then hopefully that will be acceptable - 71 - 1 to the board and my client. That's about all I can 2 offer. 3 MR. ARENCIBIA: Sounds good. 4 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: I think the 5 board's in agreement with that. 6 MR. ARENCIBIA: We're fine with 7 that. 8 CHAIRMAN CHOFFO: Are you 9 Demetrio? 10 MR. ARENCIBIA: Yes, I'm fine 11 with that. I think the applicant realizes that, you 12 know, we want to make sure there's no mud on the 13 road, it's just not safe. And like I said, if it 14 becomes a problem then, you know, the police will 15 take the action they have to take to insure safety. 16 MR. CASINO: The Meadowlands 17 Commission has very stringent fill requirements. 18 I'm not passing the buck to them but one of the 19 things they require is that we have a soils engineer 20 at the site watching this filling operation. So we 21 will have a responsible engineer, not myself not 22 that I'm irresponsible, a responsible soils engineer 23 at the site watching the operation. So let's say, 24 for instance, you made an inspection one day or the 25 Hudson County Police came down to make a complaint, - 72 - 1 they wouldn't have to deal with the truck driver who 2 says what are you talking about. They can go to 3 that person, find that person in charge and we would 4 take action to remedy the problem. That's a 5 requirement for the filling operation and we'll just 6 expand his responsibilities. 7 MR. ARENCIBIA: Okay. That's 8 fine. I mean, we'll -- we'll need to know that 9 person's name when you come in for that permit with 10 the County Engineer's office. 11 MR. CASINO: Okay. 12 MR. ARENCIBIA: Were there any 13 other comments from T & M Associates? The -- the 14 drainage, once you fill the site area is there any 15 impact on drainage? 16 MR. CASINO: No, Ramako Creek, 17 which is where our water drains to today, will 18 continue to be the recipient of our water in the 19 future. Ramako Creek is a one hundred percent title 20 waterway which connects to the North to the 21 Hackensack River, which is also a title waterway, 22 approximately a mile to the north. And there's no 23 one that drains into Ramako creek below us. So no 24 one would be impacted by the amount of -- actually 25 diminimus impact. It's draining there today; it's - 73 - 1 going to drain there tomorrow. We're not creating 2 any impervious areas. So it's flowing into a title 3 creek. After it's, you know, has to be confined by 4 soil erosion techniques. 5 MR. ARENCIBIA: All right. Your 6 application for today is really just for grading the 7 site. And you submitted -- I think you mentioned 8 that you did not submit, prior to this meeting, this 9 plan that you called Developmental -- Future 10 Developmental Plan. Is that one of your plans? 11 MR. CASINO: It's all future 12 developmental plan, it says developable area. 13 MR. ARENCIBIA: Developable 14 area. 15 MR. CASINO: What it does is 16 let -- Mr. Mori is trying to market the property, 17 I'll be very honest. And I get a call, once a week, 18 from someone that says how much of the property can 19 I develop. And I was tired of creating a different 20 map for everyone. So I made this map, we've put it 21 in an envelope and we send it out to a future 22 developer so he knows those areas that are uplands, 23 those areas that are wetlands. That's the reason 24 for the map, not for tonight. 25 MR. ARENCIBIA: All right. Well - 74 - 1 one thing is the driveway, there's no driveway there 2 now. There hasn't been one for many years. This is 3 a driveway that's for the construction -- filling 4 operation. What's the intent once the filling 5 operation is complete? You said in about five or 6 six months it's going to be done. Is that -- can 7 that driveway be closed again? My concern is -- is 8 again, people driving in and you don't have any 9 security on your site so it's really an issue you 10 should address. 11 MR. CASINO: Well, we've had to 12 address it for the last thirty years. You are one 13 hundred percent correct. While there was no formal 14 driveway there, there was a curb that was pressed 15 into oblivion and consequently people thought it was 16 the nicest piece of place -- the nicest place to go 17 to dump stuff. And we go out there, routinely, 18 every several years and clean the front 100 feet of 19 material that people randomly dump there. So when 20 this filling operation is over with, we want to put 21 up a permanent -- not a permanent barricade but a 22 barricade that can't simply be moved. Whether it's 23 going to be a couple of (indiscernible) that are 24 placed to prevent anyone from going in. It's to our 25 advantage not to have anybody illegally dump on that - 75 - 1 site. A, we get the calls and violations. B, we 2 have to clean it up. So as soon as the filling is 3 done we want to barricade the road. 4 MR. ARENCIBIA: Uh-huh. Well, I 5 think the only right way to do it is to put the full 6 raised curb back. I mean, putting a barrier curb or 7 a (indiscernible) is -- you still might have 8 somebody drive in or, you know, it's not as safe as 9 just building the curb back. 10 MR. CASINO: I'll be honest with 11 you, Mr. Arencibia. Over the years, okay, we've 12 tried that. And the fact that there's a curb cut 13 there or not a curb cut there has nothing to do with 14 reality. The truck just jumps up on the curb, finds 15 it way into the site, dumps and leaves. And the 16 best thing we can do is to keep the front as clean 17 as we can so somebody isn't attracted to a dump and 18 to certainly barricade the road. 19 To take away the curb cut, which 20 is going to take us, by the time we get done, maybe 21 two years to effectuate, okay, doesn't make much 22 sense to me. 23 Let me put it this way. We 24 picked a location for this curb cut. It's the only 25 curb cut we would have to Patterson Plank Road in - 76 - 1 the hopes that in the future; when we develop the 2 property and