1 1 HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD 2 IN RE: ) ) TRANSCRIPT OF 3 MONTHLY MEETING ) PROCEEDINGS: ) 4 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _) Administrative Annex 5 567 Pavonia Avenue Freeholders Chambers 6 Jersey City, New Jersey Monday, November 15, 2004 7 7:10 p.m. 8 B E F O R E: 9 RUSHABH MEHTA, CHAIRMAN 10 MARY E. AVAGLIANO, VICE-CHAIRMAN 11 RENEE BETTINGER, COMMISSIONER 12 MICHAEL HOLLOWAY, COMMISSIONER 13 JEFFREY DUBLIN, FREEHOLDER ALTERNATE 14 DANIEL CHOFFO, COMMISSIONER 15 BORIVOJ JASEK, COMMISSIONER 16 A L S O P R E S E N T: 17 ARTHUR GLATMAN, ESQ., Board Attorney 18 STEPHEN MARKS, Board Secretary 19 20 Reported By: 21 MICHELLE GRUENDEL, C.S.R. 22 REPORTING SERVICES ARRANGED THROUGH VERITEXT/NEW JERSEY REPORTING COMPANY, L.L.C. 23 Kabot Battaglia & Hammer Suburban Shorthand Waga and Spinelli Arthur J. Frannicola CSR 24 25B Vreeland Road Florham Park, New Jersey 07932 25 Tel: 973-410-4040 Fax: 973-410-1313 2 1 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Everybody, silence, 2 so we can call meeting to the order, please. 3 Steve, can you do the roll call? 4 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 5 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Here. 6 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 7 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Here. 8 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Choffo? 9 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Here. 10 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Dublin? 11 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Here. 12 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Fitzgibbons? 13 Commissioner Holloway? 14 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Here. 15 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Jasek? 16 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Here. 17 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Liggio? 18 And Chairman Mehta? 19 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Here. 20 Arthur, does this meeting comply to Open 21 Public Meeting Act? 22 MR. GLATMAN: The Secretary to the 23 Board has published the proper notification to the 24 public and we are in compliance with the Sunshine 25 Laws. 3 1 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Please, everybody 2 rise for the Pledge of Allegiance. 3 (Flag Salute takes place.) 4 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Review and adoption 5 of the meeting minutes from October 20th, 2004. 6 COMMISSIONER JASEK: I move to approve 7 the meeting. 8 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: I'll second it. 9 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on the 10 motion made by Commissioner Jasek to approve the 11 minutes, and seconded by Commissioner Choffo: 12 Commissioner Avagliano? 13 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 14 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 15 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Aye. 16 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Dublin? 17 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: I'll abstain. 18 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 19 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 20 MR. MARKS: And Chairman Mehta? 21 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Aye. 22 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 23 passes. 24 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Thank you. 25 Any public attending the meeting and they 4 1 have any comment on the Agenda item, please sign the 2 roll up sheet and let the secretary know your name. 3 Status of applications, memorialization of 4 resolutions approved at the last meeting: 5 Application number SP-92-04, SD/SP-99-04 and 6 RCA-100-04. 7 Do I have a motion? 8 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Motion to 9 accept. 10 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I'll second 11 that. 12 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on the 13 motion made by Commissioner Avagliano and seconded by 14 Commissioner Bettinger: 15 Commissioner Choffo? 16 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Aye. 17 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Dublin? 18 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Aye. 19 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 20 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 21 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Jasek? 22 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Aye. 23 MR. MARKS: And Chairman Mehta? 24 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Aye. 25 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 5 1 passes. 2 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Following 3 applications are declared to be exempt: 4 SP-101-04, SP-102-04, SP-103-04, all AT&T 5 Wireless applications. 6 Do I have a motion? 7 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Motion to 8 accept. 9 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: I second it. 10 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a motion 11 made by Commissioner Avagliano and seconded by 12 Commissioner Holloway: 13 Commissioner Bettinger? 14 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Aye. 15 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Choffo? 16 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Aye. 17 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Dublin? 18 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Aye. 19 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Jasek? 20 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Aye. 21 MR. MARKS: And Chairman Mehta? 22 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Aye. 23 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 24 passes. 25 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: As per one of the 6 1 Commissioner's request, we are going to take the 2 application, SP/SD-105-04, Mulock Properties, LLC as 3 the first application. 4 MR. OURY: Good evening, Members of 5 the Board. Dennis Oury appearing on behalf of Lane 6 Acquisition. 7 This application tonight comes to you as a 8 result of an approval by the North Bergen Planning 9 Board of the luxury high-rise building, 12 stories, 10 300 units on River Road in -- 11 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Wait a minute. 12 MR. OURY: I'm sorry. 13 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: I called for 14 application SP/SD-105-04, Mulock Properties -- 15 MR. OURY: Sorry about that. 16 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: -- East Newark, New 17 Jersey. 18 MR. OURY: Sorry about that. 19 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: It's okay. 20 MR. GILLESPIE: Good evening. I think 21 there was a problem regarding the listing on the 22 Agenda. 23 My name is Fred Gillespie. I'm an attorney 24 in Kearny representing Mulock Properties, LLC. 25 This matter was a hearing, a matter regarding 7 1 a development in East Newark for the development of 2 two-family houses, and I have, for the Board's 3 review, Mr. Marco Neves, who would please come up, 4 and he can please explain the project before the 5 Commissioners. 6 MR. NEVES: Good evening, ladies and 7 gentlemen of the Board. 8 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Can he bring 9 that up closer? 10 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Yeah. 11 MR. GILLESPIE: Can he testify from 12 here? Can you all hear us? 13 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Yeah. 14 MR. NEVES: Good evening, ladies and 15 gentlemen of the Board. My name is Marco Neves. 16 MR. GLATMAN: Could you spell that for 17 the reporter? 18 MR. NEVES: Yes. Marco Neves, last 19 name, N-E-V-E-S, first name, Marco. 20 MARCO NEVES, having been first duly sworn according 21 to law, testified as follows: 22 MR. GILLESPIE: Mr. Neves, you or a 23 representative, were you asked to draw plans on 24 behalf of Mulock Properties, LLC? 25 MR. NEVES: Yes. 8 1 MR. GILLESPIE: And you are a 2 licensed -- 3 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Are you to testify 4 before this Committee? 5 MR. GILLESPIE: I'll get into that. 6 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Okay. 7 MR. GILLESPIE: Okay. And did you, in 8 fact, draw the plans that are before this Board 9 tonight? 10 MR. NEVES: I did. 11 MR. GILLESPIE: And what are your -- 12 what is your occupation? 13 MR. NEVES: I'm an architect. 14 MR. GILLESPIE: All right. And could 15 you please tell the Board your qualifications and 16 what boards you've testified to before? 17 MR. NEVES: Okay. I got my 18 Architectural Degree from New Jersey Institute of 19 Technology. I have been a licensed architect for 20 about four years now. I've testified through -- 21 before several boards through the New York/New 22 Jersey/Connecticut area. I can go through a few 23 municipalities if you'd like me to. Sparta, East 24 Rutherford and, you know, just -- 25 MR. GILLESPIE: Have you ever 9 1 testified before this Board before? 2 MR. NEVES: No. 3 MR. GILLESPIE: All right. Are you a 4 member of the Kearny Planning Board? 5 MR. NEVES: I am a Commissioner of 6 the -- yes. 7 MR. GILLESPIE: Okay. I'd ask you to 8 accept his qualifications as an architect and expert 9 in this field. 10 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Any Commissioner have 11 any objection? 12 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: No objection. 13 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Okay. We will 14 accept. 15 MR. GILLESPIE: Okay. If you would 16 come around to illustrate the drawings. 17 MR. NEVES: Okay. 18 MR. GILLESPIE: Would you please 19 describe the footprint of the property and give the 20 Board a little bit of background on what the property 21 was prior to the project, the proposed project. 22 MR. NEVES: Yes. 23 Basically, the subject property, it's an 24 irregular shaped property existing of about 18,000 25 square feet, and currently, what's on there is 10 1 actually an industrial building which was really used 2 for warehousing. It's, it's out of character with 3 the neighborhood. It's a very tall building. It's 4 about 40 feet tall. It has a footprint of about 5 8,000 square feet and it's on residential streets. 6 You can see it fronts the street. There's hardly any 7 sidewalk on this side. Across the street from there 8 we actually have some of these smaller, some of -- 9 there's some mixed use directly in front of it, but 10 to the east side of it there's three-family houses 11 all the way to the end of the block. It's mostly 12 residential to the east of the subject property and 13 across the street there's also some residential 14 developments. The property basically goes from one 15 street to the other. The full width of the block on 16 one side you have Mulock Place and the other side you 17 have President Street. 18 MR. GILLESPIE: And describe for the 19 Board, if you would, the impervious coverage as the 20 lot stands now. 21 MR. NEVES: As it is today, the parcel 22 is actually 100 percent impervious. What's not taken 23 up by the building's footprints is taken up by 24 concrete paving. 25 MR. GILLESPIE: And across to Mulock 11 1 Street, I believe it's almost three-and-a-half 2 stories and, in your opinion, is that a very imposing 3 building? 4 MR. NEVES: Yes. It's out of scale 5 with the neighborhood. 6 MR. GILLESPIE: And is it built 7 directly up to the sidewalk? In fact, encroaches 8 upon the front yard setback? 9 MR. NEVES: That is correct. There's 10 about four feet of sidewalk on this side. 11 MR. GILLESPIE: And what does the 12 applicant propose to do with the permission of this 13 Board? 14 MR. NEVES: Tear the building down and 15 build six new two-family homes. 16 MR. GILLESPIE: Okay. Now, could you 17 describe the footprint of the lot as it exists 18 superimposed with the proposed -- 19 MR. NEVES: Right. 20 MR. GILLESPIE: -- two-families? 21 MR. NEVES: As I had mentioned before, 22 it's an irregular sized lot, and what we did, we 23 basically subdivided, in the best way that -- 24 actually, we worked with the town on this. We 25 originally had had additional houses, but the town 12 1 wasn't too keen on it so we reduced it and we're 2 proposing six two-family houses, and as you can see, 3 it's a little bit of an irregular shape, so five of 4 the six houses are fairly similar and then there's 5 this other house which has a little bit of, I don't 6 want to say left over, but the most difficult parcel 7 to work with, but it's also the, the biggest in terms 8 of area. 9 MR. GILLESPIE: Could you describe for 10 the Board the square footage requirements of the 11 Township of East Newark? 12 MR. NEVES: For this area, it's a 13 number of 2,500 square feet. There is no lot here 14 less than 2,500 square feet. As a matter of fact, 15 the smallest one is 2,507 and the largest one is 16 about 3,600 square feet. 17 MR. GILLESPIE: Could you describe the 18 heights of these buildings as proposed? 19 MR. NEVES: These five buildings will 20 be at about 32 feet in height, and this one's a 21 little bit taller, it's about 35, and that's within 22 the local ordinance. 23 MR. GILLESPIE: And will these 24 proposed buildings be taller or smaller than what was 25 on there? 13 1 MR. NEVES: It will be shorter. 2 MR. GILLESPIE: Could you talk 3 regarding the impervious coverage? 4 MR. NEVES: Yes. 5 What we did, we've, we've added significant 6 amount of green space, i.e., grass area landscaping, 7 a few trees to help beautify the neighborhood. It 8 adds up to about 25 percent of the total area. It's 9 just over 5,000 square feet. 10 MR. GILLESPIE: Could you describe the 11 easement that is on this property and how the 12 easement is preserved and what the easement serves? 13 MR. NEVES: Yes. 14 There is an easement on the east side of the 15 property which basically goes from street to street 16 across the entire block, and if we preserved it, we 17 believe it's for access to the rear yards of the 18 adjacent three-family homes which, as you can see, 19 they're attached and they're a series of row houses, 20 so they cannot be -- not access the rear yard, you 21 know, through the street, basically. 22 MR. GILLESPIE: So, therefore, the 23 easements will preserve allowing access to the 24 backyards in case of fire or -- 25 MR. NEVES: In case of fire, yes. 14 1 MR. GILLESPIE: Okay. Could you speak 2 regarding the parking requirements? 3 MR. NEVES: Yes. 4 We're providing off-street parking for each 5 one of these, for each one of these two-family homes. 6 MR. GILLESPIE: Do the parking 7 requirements which are required meet the requirements 8 of the -- 9 MR. NEVES: Yes. For East Newark, 10 yes. 11 MR. GILLESPIE: Does this plan respect 12 the front yard -- 13 MR. NEVES: Yeah. 14 MR. GILLESPIE: -- and side yard 15 requirements of the Borough of East Newark? 16 MR. NEVES: The requirements of East 17 Newark, the front yard is only five feet. In order 18 to accommodate some off-street parking, we pushed the 19 houses back to a minimum of 17 feet on the President 20 Street side and we pushed it out, actually 20 feet on 21 the Mulock Street side. The reason why there's a 22 difference in depth there is because on the President 23 Street side we have a 10 foot sidewalk, which can 24 accommodate, you know, if there's a little bit of 25 an -- if the bumper of the cars sticks out too much, 15 1 you have 10 feet to walk around it on this side, as 2 shown by the photographs, and you have a four foot 3 sidewalk, so we gave, you know, we went 20 feet on 4 that side. 5 MR. GILLESPIE: Now, the variance that 6 we're requesting from the Borough of East Newark 7 regarding rear yard setback, could you describe for 8 this Board why that was necessary? 9 MR. NEVES: That's correct. 10 The distance between one street and the other 11 is, is -- basically, the Borough of East Newark 12 requires a minimum depth of 100 feet. The actual 13 depth of the block is less than 200 feet, so we just 14 basically divided it right down the middle. I think 15 we ended up with 87-and-a-half feet on the other 16 side. 17 MR. GILLESPIE: And, again, this plan 18 was approved by the Borough of East Newark? 19 MR. NEVES: Correct. 20 MR. GILLESPIE: Do any of the 21 Commissioners have any questions of this witness? 22 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Commissioner Jasek, 23 do you have any comment? 24 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Mr. Chairman, why 25 we hear this case, it's not on the county road, but 16 1 it's a major subdivision. We are not really at this 2 point interested in the site plan because it's not 3 within our jurisdiction. I have no comment on this. 4 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Okay. In that case, 5 do I have a motion to approve this project? 6 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I'll make a 7 motion to approve this project. 8 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: I second it. 9 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Steve? 10 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a motion 11 made by Commissioner Bettinger and seconded by 12 Commissioner Holloway: 13 Commissioner Avagliano? 14 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I would like 15 to vote aye for one simple reason. It's a very good 16 looking project you have there, instead of the one 17 building, that's more attractive to residents today, 18 and safer, also. 19 Very good. Thank you. 20 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Choffo? 21 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: I'm abstaining, 22 Steve, due to my relationship with the client. 23 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Jasek? 24 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Aye. 25 MR. MARKS: And Chairman Mehta? 17 1 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: I vote aye. 2 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 3 passes. 4 MR. GLATMAN: Counsel, before you 5 leave, could you please mark the photo exhibit as A-1 6 and the elevation rendering as A-2 -- 7 MR. GILLESPIE: I will. 8 MR. GLATMAN: -- if we need future 9 reference to them. 10 You maintain possession of the exhibits. 11 MR. GILLESPIE: Thank you, very much. 12 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Next case, SP-50-04, 13 Lane Acquisition Northeast, 7601 River Road, North 14 Bergen, New Jersey. 15 MR. OURY: Back again. Good evening, 16 Members of the Board. Again, for the record, Dennis 17 Oury, O-U-R-Y, appearing on behalf of the applicant, 18 Lane Acquisition. 19 Again, this project comes to you as a result 20 of an approval by the North Bergen Planning Board 21 after rezoning of this property by the Commissioners 22 of North Bergen for a 12 story, 300 unit building on 23 River Road, which is almost directly across the 24 street from Palisades Hospital. 25 The application has gone through some, before 18 1 your Boards, some great scrutiny by T&M and Bob 2 Jasek, and what I'd like to do is ask the engineer to 3 step up, Nick, wherever you are, if you would like, 4 I'll stand up here, or would you like me to stand -- 5 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Closer. 6 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Closer. 7 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Further up. 8 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Arthur, can you swear 9 him in? 10 NICHOLAS VERDERESE, P.E., having been first duly 11 sworn according to law, testified as follows: 12 MR. VERDERESE: My name is Nicholas 13 Verderese. I'm an Associate at the firm of Schoor 14 DePalma, 200 Route 9, Manalapan, New Jersey. 15 Qualifications, Bachelor of Science Degree, Civil 16 Engineer from Rutgers University and practicing 17 traffic and transportation planning for 14 years and 18 I'm going to present this plan. I've appeared before 19 probably about a 100 different boards in the state, 20 represent a number of boards as their traffic 21 engineer as well. 22 MR. OURY: Have you testified before 23 this Board before? Do you remember? You don't 24 remember? 25 MR. VERDERESE: No. I remember being 19 1 in this room, and it was probably about 10 years ago, 2 but I don't know if I testified or not. 3 MR. OURY: Okay. 4 MR. VERDERESE: I don't know if that 5 was different proceedings at that time. 6 MR. OURY: Just to give the Board a 7 little bit of a background, and you're referring to a 8 site plan that -- this site plan was presented to the 9 North Bergen Planning Board which enabled us to 10 obtain our approval; is that correct? 11 MR. VERDERESE: Yes, it was. 12 MR. OURY: And could you just explain 13 to the Board, generally, what that site plan 14 depicts? 15 MR. VERDERESE: Sure. I marked that 16 A-1 with today's date. 17 This plan -- basically, the property sits 18 along the west side of River Road. As you heard, 19 7601 River Road. It's approximately opposite 20 Palisades General Hospital. It sits just to the 21 north, probably about four, 500 feet north of the 22 existing traffic signal of the hospital. 23 Working with the county, actually, probably 24 over a year now, discussing access, that was one of 25 our main concerns with this project, and we have been 20 1 working with the county and we are now with the 2 Department of Transportation for a new traffic 3 signal. That will be located opposite the emergency 4 room driveway for the hospital and it will provide 5 full movement access left turn lanes along River 6 Road, and as well, there are three other driveways, 7 two along the center, which is a one-way in the 8 southbound direction, basically for drop off and such 9 along the front of the building. Then there's a 10 right in, right out driveway to the north end of the 11 property. 12 As you heard, there's 300 units, 435 parking 13 spaces. 14 MR. OURY: Now, the light that you 15 just talked about that we have to go before the DOT 16 to get approval for was something that came out of 17 meetings with the county; is that correct? 18 MR. VERDERESE: Yes. 19 MR. OURY: It was a suggestion by the 20 county? 21 MR. VERDERESE: We were working with 22 the county and that's where the optimum location was 23 found to be, and to combine that with the emergency 24 room of the hospital in order to improve some of 25 their access to the site. 21 1 MR. OURY: Just to give the Board a 2 little more information, to the rear of this property 3 is Boulevard East; is that correct? 4 MR. VERDERESE: Yes, it is. 5 There's -- I don't know the exact height, but 6 there's a tall cliff, as you're probably aware, up to 7 Boulevard East along the cliff. 8 MR. OURY: And it's my understanding 9 that this project or this building is tucked under 10 the cliff and is at least 40 feet below the top of 11 that cliff; is that correct? 12 MR. VERDERESE: Yes, it is. 13 MR. OURY: Okay. Now, there was a 14 letter that was generated by T&M who reviewed this 15 project for the county and that letter was originally 16 dated, I think July 15th. 17 MR. VERDERESE: July 15th, last 18 revised November 12th, 2004. 19 MR. OURY: And it was a rather lengthy 20 and detailed analysis of our project and it's my 21 understanding that that letter was revised through 22 November 12th, 2004 -- 23 MR. VERDERESE: Yes, it was. 24 MR. OURY: -- which was only a few days 25 ago. 22 1 MR. VERDERESE: I think there were 2 five iterations and we have been working back and 3 forth with T&M as well as Mr. Jasek. 4 MR. OURY: And I remember attending at 5 least one meeting with T&M, Mr. Jasek, Members of the 6 Board I think were there and it's my understanding 7 that almost all of the items that were raised by T&M 8 have been addressed by the applicant; is that 9 correct? 10 MR. VERDERESE: Yes. 11 MR. OURY: However, there are three or 12 four items which we need to address this evening 13 because we're requesting waivers from the site plan 14 ordinance of the county; is that correct? 15 MR. VERDERESE: Yes. 16 MR. OURY: Why don't you go over those 17 three or four items and explain to the Board why we 18 need waivers on those items. 19 MR. VERDERESE: Okay. The first item 20 we needed a waiver for, which was item four in the 21 review letter, was on the radii of the driveway. 22 MR. OURY: Can you point out where 23 that is, please? 24 MR. VERDERESE: There's a couple 25 locations. Your radii, required radii is 25 feet. 23 1 There's a number of areas -- we provided 12 foot 2 radius basically on the enter only driveway, which 3 really doesn't affect any of the movements. We have 4 a 25 foot radius for the inbound right turn in. The 5 exit radius, we worked with your professionals and 6 came up with a driveway design there to try to limit 7 that driveway to right turn out only, so we do need a 8 waiver there, but, basically, it's in order to 9 provide what we feel is a safe design of the 10 driveways. 11 The next waiver we needed was for the curb 12 line opening width. The northerly driveway has a 13 large opening width. We have an island in the middle 14 just to provide right in, right out, so the overall 15 opening actually exceeds the county's requirement, 16 but in order, again, to provide that right in and 17 right out we are asking for a waiver there from the 18 overall opening width as well as at the signalized 19 intersection where we're providing 25 foot radii, 20 adequate lanes for turning in and out, so we need a 21 waiver there as well for the curb line opening width. 22 The next item that actually required a 23 waiver -- I'll skip down to the waiver. The last 24 waiver is a similar one. It's the actual width of a 25 one-way drive aisle, and that driveway -- minimum, 24 1 maximum driveway width is between 12 and 18. Working 2 with your professionals, again, we've come up with a 3 20 foot driveway width in order to allow someone to 4 pull over and someone to adequately pass someone that 5 might be stopped, dropping off or such in front of 6 the building, so that's the third waiver. 7 There's two comments in here that haven't 8 been addressed, otherwise, everything else has been 9 addressed. 10 One of them was some boulders up at the end 11 of, I think it's 76th Street. I think what we've -- 12 actually, at the TRC Meeting, we decided we were 13 going to leave those in, so that comment actually 14 would come out of the review letter. 15 The last one was on a detail for a pavement 16 repair strip where we're putting our new driveways. 17 We will be, we'll give the eight inches. I think we 18 have to change our detail. We didn't have the right 19 thickness of the pavement and we'll be showing the 20 eight inches for that detail. 21 Otherwise, I think we've addressed the 22 comments that are on the review letter. I could ask 23 Mr. Whalen. 24 MR. WHALEN: Yes. Mr. Chairman, we've 25 had an opportunity to review this application on 25 1 several occasions. We had a meeting with the 2 applicant and with the County Planning Board, Site 3 Plan Committee and I agree that the applicant has now 4 complied why our letter, November 12, 2004, of all 5 the requirements that we have provided therein. It 6 was an exhaustive effort, but we finally got there. 7 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Commissioner Jasek, 8 do you have any comment? 9 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Mr. Chairman, we 10 had several meetings in my office and then with the, 11 with the Planning Board Plan Review Committee. We 12 posed many constraints and many conditions to the, to 13 the applicant and in my view, he complied with all of 14 them. 15 The reference to the, to the exceptions, 16 mostly dictated by the Plan Review Committee, 17 especially the increase or decrease of the radius to 18 the driveway, we asked the applicant to increase the 19 radius when you enter the driveway so not to slow 20 down traffic on River Road and make a potential 21 accident there. We asked the applicant to decrease 22 the radius and the inner loop on the inner corners to 23 make it very difficult to make illegal left turn, 24 because this driveway is on the right turn in and 25 right turn out from the driveway, so that was the 26 1 reason for, same reason for the increasing the length 2 of the driveway, to make a smooth transition from the 3 roadway, which is a relatively high speed into the 4 parking lot or into the driveway, so at this point, 5 in my view, the applicant complied with all of the 6 requirements concerning the traffic and also the 7 drainage. 8 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Will they provide any 9 traffic study? 10 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Yes. Yes. They 11 provided exhausting traffic study which was studied, 12 was analyzed and eventually was approved, yes. 13 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Any other 14 Commissioner have any other question or comment? 15 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Excuse me. That 16 property is adjacent, right across the street from 17 the, from the hospital. Is it near that old soda 18 company, Snapple or -- 19 MR. OURY: That soda company is about 20 a quarter of a mile south, next to the car wash. 21 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: South, so it's 22 going to be on that same side? 23 MR. OURY: It's on that same side of 24 the road, but the soda company is south of this 25 property. 27 1 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: What is the 3 height of this project? 4 MR. OURY: It's 12 stories. I think 5 it's 120 feet, which is in compliance with the 6 ordinance. 7 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: It has been 8 approved by North Bergen? 9 MR. OURY: Oh, yeah. 10 MR. VERDERESE: Yes. 11 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: As per North Bergen 12 parking requirement, how many parking spaces supposed 13 to be required for this project? 14 MR. VERDERESE: They require, I think 15 it's three. 16 MR. OURY: We're over on parking. 17 MR. VERDERESE: Yeah. We're well 18 over. We're at 435. The requirement would be the 19 residential site improvement standard and I think 20 it's 330. 21 MR. WHALEN: One. 22 MR. VERDERESE: 31. 23 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: And the back side of 24 the cliff, are you going to put the retaining wall? 25 MR. VERDERESE: Yes. 28 1 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: How high the wall 2 will be? 3 MR. VERDERESE: There, there -- I 4 think there are some low walls, but basically -- I 5 can't really answer. 6 MR. OURY: We don't have our 7 structural engineer here, but my recollection from 8 the testimony at the local planning board was that 9 there was some low walls along the back of this, but 10 nothing of any great size. 11 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: So you are not going 12 to be digging up or excavating any cliff? 13 MR. OURY: Not really, no. No. 14 Actually, the building sits forward from the cliff. 15 MR. VERDERESE: Yeah. Yeah. It's 16 well -- 17 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: So the 18 cliff -- 19 MR. VERDERESE: Yeah. The cliff 20 basically starts at the back edge of the parking 21 lot. The building is well in front. There's 22 actually an existing building that covers almost the 23 same area that this building is going to be on. 24 MR. OURY: It's the old Damon building 25 which makes shirts. 29 1 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: So between the 2 bus stop, between the bus stop? 3 MR. VERDERESE: Exactly between the 4 bus stop, just to the north of the bus stop. 5 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Yeah. 6 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Any other 7 Commissioner have any question? 8 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Mr. Chairman, I 9 have one additional question. 10 You're aware that there is a rock out on the 11 cliff right behind your property? Once in a while 12 there is a rock coming down that cliff? 13 MR. OURY: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER JASEK: How are you going 15 to protect the property, cars or the people from 16 the -- 17 MR. OURY: Again, we had a 18 geo-technical person testify and there was -- there 19 is going to be some adequate addressing of that 20 issue. I can't tell you right now. I don't have the 21 structural -- the geo-technical person here this 22 evening, but that was addressed before the local 23 board. If you go there now, there's actually 24 boulders that have come down. 25 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Mr. Chairman, I 30 1 want this on the record, because I don't want to hear 2 later that county has Boulevard East on top and 3 because of the heavy traffic or something, the rocks 4 get loose and fall down. 5 MR. OURY: They've been falling down 6 for years, Bob. 7 COMMISSIONER JASEK: I want to be 8 clear on that and be on the record. 9 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: That's why, also, I 10 was asking about the retaining wall and what is the 11 requirement and whether it is needed or it is -- or 12 in view of the study about that or that wall or the 13 cliff that -- 14 MR. VERDERESE: There has been, aside 15 from our -- as you heard earlier, there's going to be 16 a slope stabilization project as part of this as 17 well, and there's also some guardrail that runs along 18 the back for any smaller things that may, you know, 19 roll down the side. 20 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Let me ask our 21 expert. 22 Did you study or did you review this cliff 23 problem or anything? 24 MR. WHALEN: No, we did not. Our 25 comments were relating to traffic impact along the 31 1 roadway as well as drainage. We really did not get 2 involved with any of the other aspects of the 3 project. 4 MR. GLATMAN: If I might, for the 5 record, we have, we have received 10 written 6 objections to this project which is attributed to the 7 Board, and obviously, I believe there are people here 8 who will testify and speak out either for or against, 9 I don't know, but just for the record, they have made 10 objections in writing to the Board, so before we go 11 any further and questioning of the applicant is done, 12 we'll open it up for comments from the general 13 public. 14 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Any other 15 Commissioner have a question or do you want me to 16 open the public portion? 17 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Yeah. 19 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Before opening the 20 public portion, let me make a brief statement. 21 Please, if you are going to have the same 22 statement or same concern, appoint somebody as your 23 spokesperson and let the spokesperson detail all 24 the -- you can say either your objection or the 25 favor, and be brief and precise, and whatever you 32 1 have, a question or a comment, please address to the 2 Board. 3 Thank you. 4 MR. CHRONIC: Good evening. My name 5 is Dave Chronic. I see some old friends here. I 6 represent the North Bergen Action Group, and there 7 probably will be possibly one or two additional 8 speakers, I'm not sure, who may touch upon this from 9 a different perspective. 10 First, I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, and 11 Members of the Board, and I want to thank Stephen 12 Marks for their assistance that they have provided 13 when we asked for information and giving us this 14 opportunity to express our concerns with this 15 project. 16 First, I'm a little bit disappointed that my 17 good friend, Mr. Oury, had promised at the previous 18 meeting that we would get to see the plans and 19 proposals which never came forth, so I really can't 20 address that from having not seen the changes, 21 Dennis, that, you know, that you were going to share 22 with us, so let me take it from that point. 23 I'd like to make it clear that the North 24 Bergen Action Group is not against reasonable and 25 balanced development, and to support this statement, 33 1 we recently met with A.K. Ventures, arranged with the 2 township, they came to our facility and they have a 3 proposal which will come before you, if it hasn't 4 come yet, for 210 units, I believe, on River Road. 5 Now, this project was designed so as not to block the 6 river view of the Bergen Ridge residents. The 7 developer also told me that they're going to 8 incorporate the Hudson River walkway. Now, to me, 9 this talks about a developer who's concerned about 10 the environment, concerned about the people who live 11 in the area and the quality of life. Air quality 12 today does not meet EPA standards for particulars and 13 for carbon monoxide. I just -- fortunately, we can 14 say that Palisades Medical Center is close by and 15 people that are suffering from asthma and other 16 respiratory problems will not have too far to go if 17 they need help. With the increased population 18 density, more cars, we will clearly be exacerbating 19 already a dangerous situation with regard to air 20 quality. 21 Now, 300 units probably means an additional 22 500 cars, I would guesstimate. The traffic today is 23 presently backed up during the morning and evening 24 rush hours and on the weekends, particularly 25 Saturday, and I think there's a very clear need to 34 1 study the traffic in a regional context, and that 2 means the development that's going on to the north of 3 us, the south of us, the west of us, so we need to 4 really take a more global perspective. North Bergen 5 will be experiencing about 900 new units coming on 6 probably in the next few years. That's disregarding 7 what's going on in Edgewater, which is, which is 8 experiencing tremendous development, as you all know, 9 Cliffside Park, Fort Lee, go south to Weehawken and 10 West New York, et cetera, so we're talking about some 11 major development with traffic that's going to be 12 impacting, which I think the engineer said was 13 something like 10,000 cars during the rush-hour. I 14 think that figure was used about five, 10 years ago, 15 but I think it's much more than that. I think it's 16 important to keep in mind that the Palisades is very 17 important. Important sense of the environment. It 18 is my personal opinion that the Palisades value is 19 incalculable. It is probably the most striking 20 single natural asset in the town. A little bit of 21 geology and history, it goes back and was formed 22 about 195 million years ago. It's a long time. How 23 do we duplicate something like that today? The 24 Palisades is home to some 40 species of woody plants, 25 50 species of birds and about nine species of 35 1 mammals. Now, that's hard for most of us to believe, 2 living in an urban area, yet you walk off Boulevard 3 East a few feet and that's what you have. I'm not 4 making this up. This comes from John Sarao, a 5 renowned naturalist that we were -- the North Bergen 6 Action Group engaged in the 1980's. He inventoried 7 the Cliffs for us and it is my guess that 20 years 8 later we probably don't have 50 species of birds or 9 nine species of mammals. We probably lost many of 10 them. Can we afford to lose more, I ask you. 11 Perhaps some of you recall the name of Judge Dorothea 12 Weffing's decision of 1989 which prohibited Charlie 13 Rocco, the developer of Rock Harbor, who would have 14 built a building mid rise that would have blocked the 15 spectacular view of the Cliffs. Now, I'm not talking 16 about Boulevard East looking down at the beautiful 17 river and New York skyline, I'm talking about, as 18 Judge Weffing said in her decision, being on River 19 Road, on the Hudson River or even New York, looking 20 across at this majestic, magnificent sheer -- the 21 Cliffs, which the north -- I'm sorry, which the 22 Hudson County Planning Board in their own literature 23 spoke about the beauty and the importance and the 24 significance of this view, so the county, in their 25 wisdom, acknowledged how important this was, and the 36 1 paper I'm talking about is the Master Plan. I'm 2 sorry. I didn't say that. 3 Another environmental concern has to do with 4 the impact that this proposed 12 story building will 5 have on the Red Tail Hawks that nest along the cliff, 6 and, specifically, coincidentally, right about 76th 7 Street I saw them. I brought in another 8 environmentalist this summer from the Flat Rock 9 Sanctuary in Englewood, actually got to see them, 10 many people from our building and in the area see 11 them often. They perform a very important function, 12 keeping rodents and pigeon population in check. A 13 building of 12 stories will undoubtedly affect the 14 bird life, the mammals and the trees that are there, 15 since a building of that height will affect 16 temperature, cast shadows, and I'm not about to say 17 what the impact is, but from what I've read, it will 18 have an impact. Of course, if we had -- we'd love to 19 see a park with trails, but granted this is 20 unrealistic, but what about a one or two story office 21 building, a research center, a hotel or maybe even a 22 four story town-house development with less density, 23 smaller development, less cars, less pollution from 24 omissions, this would mean cleaner air and less 25 traffic, less noise, more prospects for the birds, 37 1 mammals and trees to survive and the joy of seeing 2 the Palisade Cliffs. What's so bad about that? 3 Don't you think that future generations deserve to 4 see and enjoy our tiny natural vestige from 195 5 million years ago? 6 By the way, I invite those board members who 7 have yet to see the property we're talking about to 8 join me and take a little tour of the Palisades from 9 this perspective. 10 Thank you, very much, for your time. 11 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Thank you. 12 MR. SCANOVINO: Good evening, ladies 13 and gentlemen. My name is Edward Scanovino, 810 89th 14 Street, North Bergen, New Jersey. I just have a 15 couple questions. 16 You mentioned a traffic study. I'm sorry. I 17 don't know the gentleman's name on the right. 18 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: You can address the 19 Board. 20 MR. SCANOVINO: I beg your pardon. 21 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: You can address to 22 the Board and he will answer. 23 MR. SCANOVINO: In regards to the 24 traffic study, he mentioned that will be a right turn 25 coming out and a right turn going in, and that is 38 1 very nice, but where do you make a u-turn? If you 2 come out right and you're heading south, where do you 3 make a u-turn if you want to go to Edgewater? 4 MR. WHALEN: Traffic signal. 5 MR. SCANOVINO: And if you are coming 6 north, where do you make a u-turn to make a right and 7 get into the project? 8 MR. WHALEN: Actually, it won't 9 require a u-turn, because the applicant is going to 10 provide a traffic signal which is directly across the 11 driveway to the hospital. You'll be able to make 12 left-hand and right-hand turn lane movements at that 13 traffic signal. It's only at the other driveways on 14 the same site that it's restricted, so there will be 15 no requirement to have to use a u-turn. 16 MR. SCANOVINO: No requirement to make 17 a u-turn. 18 If you are coming out of the project you must 19 go right? 20 MR. WHALEN: No. You can come out of 21 the project -- there's three separate driveways. You 22 can come out of the southern most driveway, this 23 location on the map, and you can make left-hand and 24 right-hand turns out of that, that driveway. All of 25 the driveways are restricted except that one driveway 39 1 where there will be a traffic signal which will give 2 you gaps and movement skill to make left-hand turns 3 out. 4 MR. SCANOVINO: Okay. So then that 5 relates to my next question. 6 The light, has the light been approved by the 7 county or is it still in talking stages? 8 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Mr. Chairman, the 9 traffic light, there's a certain procedure to install 10 a new traffic light. First, the county has to ask 11 the Commissioner of the Department of Transportation 12 for approval of that light. We asked for that with 13 our letter on September 14. Today we received an 14 answer that the first stage of the work on the 15 traffic light, it means the design has been approved, 16 so the construction can start with the working on the 17 design. When the design is completed, reviewed and 18 approved by the county, then it's submitted to the 19 Commissioner of Transportation for his final 20 approval, so you cannot put a traffic light wherever 21 you want. There are certain and strong criteria for 22 the designing and construction of the traffic light. 23 All of these have to be observed, the traffic light 24 has to be justified based on the traffic count and 25 the projected traffic at that location, the number of 40 1 the projects left turn, not only for this, but even 2 for a hospital, this traffic light is justified. 3 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: So, in other words, 4 though, even the proposal is on the way and the 5 procedures are taken care of? 6 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Yes. We were 7 authorized by the Department of Transportation to 8 proceed with this traffic light. 9 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Okay. 10 MR. SCANOVINO: It's very hard to hear 11 you gentlemen, and forgive me, but with the broken 12 English, I -- 13 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: The traffic light -- 14 MR. SCANOVINO: You mentioned the 15 Commissioner of Transportation. 16 Is that the State of New Jersey Commissioner 17 or is that the County Commissioner? 18 MR. WHALEN: State. 19 COMMISSIONER JASEK: No. The county 20 does not have a Commissioner of Transportation. I'm 21 talking about New Jersey Department of Transportation 22 Commissioner. 23 MR. SCANOVINO: You're talking about 24 the real big bureaucrats, right? So if the light is 25 not stamped in stone and the light is not approved, 41 1 the bureaucrats can bounce the light around forever. 2 You may never see a light, and as I told you the last 3 time I was here, Dr. Stein, the heart cardiologist 4 north of the hospital has been trying to get a light, 5 and he's a stone's throw away from where you're 6 speaking about, and he can't get a light, so I don't 7 know how you're going to approve this project based 8 on the light, based on turning right to exit, based 9 on turning right to come in, and as the gentleman 10 said, the third driveway, you can do as you please. 11 Without the light being approved, you cannot 12 approve the project. You will have death, you will 13 have people -- years ago River Road was the worst 14 road in the county. May my mother rest in peace, 15 when I started driving 35 years or so ago I wasn't 16 permitted to go on River Road, and the traffic was 17 nowhere nears what it is today, so I plead with you, 18 if you don't have that light and you don't have every 19 single piece of paper and you don't have the wires 20 run and the light blinking, I don't know how you can 21 approve the project with the clear conscience. 22 Thank you. 23 MR. McCLELLEN: My name is William 24 McClellen. I live at 101 74th Street in North Bergen 25 and I am a member of the North Bergen Action Group, 42 1 but I'm also speaking for myself. 2 Mr. Chronic addressed a number of the issues 3 which I was going to cover, so I'll be very brief 4 about those, but I did want to just say that the 5 problems with this development are violations of both 6 the letter and the spirit of Hudson County Site Plan 7 Ordinance and the County Master Plan. 8 The proposal is a clear violation of Article 9 V, Section B2 of the Site Plan Ordinance in that this 10 development will severely alter the natural features 11 of the site. Views of the Hudson River and New York 12 Skyline will be severely blocked from Boulevard East, 13 and, equally importantly, a large area of the 14 Palisades from below, from River Road and the Hudson 15 River will virtually disappear, and, again, as Mr. 16 Chronic said, I would invite you to please visit this 17 site, look at what it will be, try to imagine the 18 height of this site versus the height of the 19 Palisades and just imagine what it's going to look 20 like, how it's going to destroy this view, and it's 21 not only a violation of the Site Plan Ordinance, but 22 it also goes against the stated goal of the Hudson 23 County Master Plan, to quote, "preserve existing 24 scenic vistas". The Palisades, from both above and 25 below, is a scenic vista of the highest order and it 43 1 must be preserved. 2 This proposal also goes against Section B3 of 3 the ordinance, because it does not respect "natural 4 features and topography of the Palisades", nor will 5 its construction present anything resembling 6 an "attractive street scape". In fact, it will hide 7 the natural features and topography and threaten the 8 topography of an already stressed area, which Mr. 9 Chronic addressed about the bird sanctuary and the 10 mammals and wildlife and plant life. Again, while it 11 is violating the Site Plan Ordinance regarding 12 natural features and geography topography, it is also 13 going against the stated goal of the Master Plan 14 to "protect environmentally sensitive areas". 15 We also understand that the traffic light 16 will be placed at the entrance to 7601, which we've 17 just been discussing, and I just want to say that the 18 addition of a traffic light will not only -- well, I 19 mean, the stopping and starting, the idling of cars 20 is one of the most problematic parts of pollution 21 that we can have. I mean, when you -- when the car 22 is stopped, it's emitting much more, it's running 23 much more poorly, it's emitting much more pollution 24 than it does when it's running smoothly, and to have 25 more stopped traffic along River Road -- I invite you 44 1 to go to River Road on a Saturday, almost any time of 2 day, from nine to five on a Saturday or even later. 3 On River Road nowadays -- I was there the other day, 4 just the last Saturday, and it's a parking lot now. 5 It's a virtual parking lot. The same is true on the 6 weeknights at rush-hour, and if you look down from 7 the, from the Palisades and you look down at River 8 Road, you will see cars stopped. Now, another 9 traffic light, what is that gonna' do? More cars, 10 more cars stopped. 435 parking units, 435 more 11 cars. It just can't go on. It cannot go on. We 12 have other units, other buildings there proposed. 13 You're choking us if you approve this. I mean, we 14 are, we are -- the air quality in Hudson County, as 15 Mr. Chronic said, well, as we have, we have learned 16 that studies put it at 3,600 times over the safe 17 levels of air toxins set by the EPA. 3,600 times. 18 That's what we're breathing now. The toxins include 19 many carcinogens, benzene, formaldehyde, 20 nitrogen-oxides. More than 80 percent of these 21 toxins come from cars and trucks. You have to 22 remember that in addition to the 435 new, new cars 23 that are going to be brought in, we have deliveries. 24 There are going to be trucks coming in and out of 25 that place making -- you know, constantly, and it is 45 1 going to be a nightmare. Hudson County has more 2 cases of asthma in children than any other county in 3 New Jersey. There's some 60,000 adults here with 4 asthma, chronic bronchitis, emphysema. This project 5 will only add to the problem. The project goes 6 against the stated goals of the Hudson County Master 7 Plan, to "reduce pollution and maintain a healthy 8 environment". It's absolutely not an asset. The 9 project clearly flies in the face of the Site Plan 10 Ordinance, which states that at the beginning of, 11 which states at the beginning of Article V, Section 12 A, that a good site design "will be an asset to a 13 community". If you, when you see this after it's -- 14 if you allow this to go ahead as it's planned, you 15 will not see an asset to the community. I beg you to 16 not let this project go forward. What we desperately 17 now need along River Road is a moratorium of any more 18 construction. We desperately need plans to preserve 19 open spaces and protect the Palisades. 20 Finally, as Mr. Chronic pointed out, we 21 were -- you, the Board, directly instructed the 22 planners at the last meeting or in the September 23 meeting to consult with us. We heard nothing. We 24 have not been consulted with, we knew nothing of the 25 revised plans, we have no, no knowledge of this and 46 1 we find that to be very disturbing. We hope you do, 2 too, and, once again, please go to this place before 3 you make any kind of approval. Go and look at it, 4 see what it's going to be like, look at it from above 5 and below. A 12 story building built up from River 6 Road, when you look down, or from Boulevard East, 7 when you look down and you imagine what this 12 story 8 building is going to look like, you won't approve 9 this, and if the same is true, if you can go and 10 imagine looking up from River Road and the river you 11 will not approve this plan. It is hideous and we 12 just can't afford it environmentally, esthetically 13 and in any way. 14 Thank you, very much. 15 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: I will take only one 16 more, or you can say two more, but be precise, be 17 brief and don't repeat. 18 MRS. CHRONIC: I'm going to be very 19 brief. My name is Jeanette Chronic. I live in North 20 Bergen. I'm a member of the North Bergen Action 21 Group, also. 22 I had not planned to speak, but as I'm 23 listening to this, this isn't unique, is it? This is 24 not unique across the country. It's nothing unusual 25 here. Group of environmentalists, concerned citizens 47 1 against somebody's profit margin. It happens all the 2 time. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. By 3 sometimes it works, sometimes they get their way, 4 other times it's a halt. We're talking here, from 5 just what I'm going focus on is something we have 6 very little left of. There's the California 7 Palisades, there are Palisades down the coastline, 8 there are Palisades in New Jersey. We have very 9 little of it left. It's being gutted. We're getting 10 in the way of somebody's profit margins. 11 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Can I ask you -- 12 MRS. CHRONIC: That's what you have to 13 think of. We are getting in the way, we're 14 frustrating somebody's profit margins. It happens. 15 It's not unique to us. 16 Ladies and gentlemen, you have to look -- you 17 have a decision to make on that. We're losing the 18 New Jersey Palisades, and if we keep it, then 19 somebody else is going to lose, but in the long run, 20 they've been there a long time and they give a great 21 deal. What is this development going to give? Some 22 ratability. It hasn't brought down our taxes, these 23 ratables. It's going to be a permanent destruction 24 and it's gone. For what? 25 Thank you. 48 1 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Okay. With this 2 comment, I will close the public portion. 3 I will ask, any of the Commissioners like to 4 make a statement or a question? 5 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: I'd like to make 6 a statement. 7 For years, for years I worked for the County 8 Road Department and our job was to maintain that 9 road, and for years and years a lot of people use 10 that -- used to use that for a dumping ground, 11 dumping garbage, dumping stuff, you know, from their 12 houses. I mean, I think to have some type of project 13 there to improve the, you know, the quality of life 14 and to make sure that -- I mean, we see every day 15 that people use open space, not really for open 16 space, to use as a dumping ground. I'm in favor of 17 open space, but I'm also in favor of improvement, you 18 know. The area down there, like I said, for years I 19 worked in that area as to maintain that road and I 20 believe this project will eliminate these people, who 21 don't even live in the town, come here, dump their 22 garbage and then leave, so I'm in favor of something 23 going there to improve that land and make sure that 24 people don't use that land as a dumping ground and I 25 believe this project could help that area. I mean, 49 1 there's some questions about traffic there. That's 2 the -- that roadway is heavy, heavy with traffic. 3 For years and years we used to plow that road in the 4 wintertime and pave it and just maintain it and just, 5 like, speedway, but I believe that, with help, that 6 they can improve that traffic, that traffic, but I 7 believe that this -- that some type of project needs 8 to go on to that land, because all they use it is as 9 a dumping ground and it costs the county a lot of 10 money to maintain and clean up that area down there. 11 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: What is 12 actually there now? 13 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: It's nothing. 14 It's in between a bus stop and a factory, and believe 15 me, there's a lot of garbage that's dumped and 16 dumped, just people's household's garbage, animals. 17 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Commissioner -- 18 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I traveled on 19 River Road many times and I'm trying to visualize 20 exactly where it is, and I don't -- 21 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: You know where 22 the car wash -- 23 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Yeah. I know 24 where the car wash is. 25 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: -- the Snapple, 50 1 then, coming back towards the factory in the middle 2 it's a health center, the health center there. It's 3 the hospital, it's the health center, it's -- they 4 just did a, built an apartment complex down there a 5 couple, about a couple years ago, right in that area. 6 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: It is opposite 7 Palisades General Hospital and between River Road and 8 the cliff. 9 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: My major 11 concern, for instance, is just the right-hand turn. 12 If someone wants to go do their grocery shopping, I 13 believe they would have to go to Pathmark to do that. 14 MR. OURY: No. There's a light. 15 There's a light. There is a light that's provided. 16 The county asked us for that and there will be a 17 light, so there's three access points, but one of 18 them has a light, so it's a controlled access point 19 and you don't have the problem of doing a u-turn 20 anywhere. Obviously, it would be a hard thing for 21 any of the residents to do that. 22 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I'm assuming 23 if somebody needs to go do their grocery shopping -- 24 what was the other gentleman saying, there is no 25 light? 51 1 MR. OURY: The proposal is for a 2 light. 3 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: They're in the 4 process, and once the approvals are done, and the 5 project is going to finish before that, the light 6 will be installed. 7 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Mr. Oury, I have 8 a question, actually. Forgive me if we asked you 9 this one before. 10 Did North Bergen approve this? 11 MR. OURY: Absolutely, and it was a no 12 variance application. That's one of the points I 13 wanted to make. It was an application that was made 14 with no variances required as a result of a rezoning 15 by the Board of Commissions. 16 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Would it be 17 possible for you to send that resolution to Mr. 18 Marks? 19 MR. OURY: I think they have it, but I 20 can get you one. He may have it already. 21 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I have a 22 question. 23 Mr. Chronic, have you gone before the North 24 Bergen Planning Board with the same request you said 25 this evening? 52 1 What was their response to that? 2 MR. CHRONIC: Well, on the second 3 occasion we were not given any public input, and we 4 were a little surprised, because we thought we would 5 had that -- have that. We had one meeting where we 6 were able, but when we came back the second time, 7 they said it was closed, and we were not under that 8 impression. We actually -- it was mentioned to me, 9 we were threatened with arrest, and there was a 10 police officer there, et cetera, et cetera, so we had 11 a pretty big turn-out on that second occasion of 12 about 35, 40 people from the area. 13 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: With all the 14 speakers at the Planning Board, no one had any 15 problems? Did you all go there to speak and no one 16 said anything? 17 MR. OURY: No. Mr. Chronic got up and 18 spoke and some of these other people may have. There 19 were people that spoke in opposition at the Planning 20 Board. 21 MR. SCANOVINO: I spoke. 22 MR. OURY: Mr. Scanovino speaks at 23 almost every application I have, so he was there. 24 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Thank you. 25 MR. SCANOVINO: Can I make a 53 1 suggestion, Mr. Chairman? 2 You keep saying about this proposed light, 3 and that's very well and good, so it means that it's 4 proposed and it's Mr. Oury's position that it's so 5 definite, and I'm certain there's going to be a 6 lawsuit filed against this project even after we get 7 out of here this evening, why doesn't the county make 8 a stipulation that there will be no CO issued even if 9 the building is completed unless there is a light? 10 That's all I ask, other than the lawsuit. 11 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: The CO requirement 12 and the rules, I think the rules and regulations and 13 requirements belong to the local government, not the 14 county's jurisdiction. 15 MR. SCANOVINO: Yes, but you can make 16 an approval. You are the county, the road is the 17 county, the light is the county, and the people 18 coming out of that project out of North Bergen are 19 coming on to a county road. It's a very simple 20 thing. No CO unless there's a light. It's not a lot 21 to ask for. 22 MR. GLATMAN: We've done that before 23 where we've had, as a condition after approval, our 24 approval, we've had traffic lights, signage, 25 striping, we've had those conditions put into the 54 1 resolution and at that point and at a certain point 2 if our resolution is not complied with we request 3 that the local Building Code Official either revoke 4 permits or not give a C of O, depending upon the 5 stage of the construction or stage of the project. 6 Thus far, the few times we've had problems, the C of 7 O or the Construction Code Official has worked with 8 us on it, so, yes, we've done this repeatedly where 9 that's a condition of our approval. 10 MR. OURY: I have no objection to 11 that. 12 MR. GLATMAN: We can put that in. 13 I might make a comment. I don't know the 14 facts behind the doctor's application or any other 15 application. Provided you do have a project, you 16 have 300 units, and the DOT may act differently when 17 you have a county involved, municipality involved as 18 opposed to an individual involved requesting a 19 traffic light. It's a very different situation. I 20 think our past history and experience shows that on 21 projects, when you have a larger project, DOT does 22 react in, basically, a very timely manner on the 23 traffic lights. They work with the developers, they 24 work with the county, they work municipalities so 25 that the traffic light fits their requirements and 55 1 the needs of that traffic. 2 MR. SCANOVINO: Not to mention any 3 names that should or shouldn't be mentioned, but it's 4 not only the doctor. There's a new restaurant there 5 by the name of Frank's, and the fellow's last name 6 happens to be Laughtenberg, and he's having trouble 7 getting the light, so imagine how much trouble Mr. 8 Oury's going to have. Frank Laughtenberg can't get a 9 light, how is Dennis Oury going to get one, unless -- 10 MR. OURY: Is that a challenge? Is 11 that a challenge? 12 MR. SCANOVINO: Today we have one 13 governor, tomorrow we have another. Today we have a 14 traffic commissioner, maybe he's a friend. Maybe by 15 the time this project's ready, we'll have a new 16 commissioner. 17 MR. GLATMAN: I certainly can't 18 comment on that one way or another. I certainly have 19 no control of it. I'm just saying, from past 20 experience they usually have worked well with 21 municipalities and the county. 22 MR. SCANOVINO: Well, you know, with 23 the help of these lovely people here and myself and 24 the good courts, after we leave here maybe we may 25 need -- we may not need this light. Hopefully there 56 1 are lots of other issues this Board has nothing to do 2 with. There's an MUA issue that is overwhelming, so 3 if we can't stop it here, we'll stop it there, but if 4 you could put that stipulation in, that would be 5 greatly appreciated. 6 MR. GLATMAN: That's not a problem, 7 and I would also just like to say, there are 8 limitations to the jurisdiction of the Board. While 9 in our Master Plan we do talk about preservation of 10 scenic vistas and Palisades, if you read it, it's 11 unfortunate, the focus tends to be a little bit more 12 looking east to New York from the Palisades, but if 13 you look at the spirit, you can also say, yes, it 14 also applies with the Palisades, and the authority is 15 much more along the lines of supporting the measures 16 to protect the scenic view, especially from public 17 places such as parks and roads, and you have a 18 situation here where the municipality, who generally 19 speaks of local municipality, local governing entity 20 has specific zoners. We reviewed the zoning. They 21 addressed Palisades. In many of these cases the 22 courts overlook at the municipalities if they have 23 specifically addressed an issue, but courts 24 frequently do -- most of the time what they do is 25 they, they presume a certain amount of expertise from 57 1 the local entities and they will very frequently 2 defer to that expertise. This indicates the local 3 municipality certainly has the zoning power, specific 4 clear zoning power, either Municipal Land Use Law to 5 regulate the height distance from the Palisades, and 6 what they do is they took a height downward from the 7 top of the Palisades and set a restriction requiring 8 a certain amount of the Palisades to be visible, so 9 there is a potential argument that that has been 10 specifically addressed, and then looking at the 11 limited jurisdiction of this Board, whether or not we 12 have the opportunity or the authority to basically 13 overrule that power. Most of our power is the affect 14 on county facilities, especially drainage and roads. 15 That's the real focus of the County Planning Board, 16 the focus and the limitations of our authority. What 17 I can say from experience, too, the Board would love 18 to have a lot of additional authority, but it was not 19 granted to us by the legislature, and over the past 20 years, legislature has reviewed the enabling 21 statutes. There have been numerous attempts or 22 thoughts of modifying it, and so far it's been pretty 23 stable from the past, say, dozen or so years, so we 24 have to keep that in mind, also. Clearly, the form 25 for questioning would have been in the municipal 58 1 form, and I don't really know exactly what went on 2 and I've not had the opportunity, and I don't think 3 the Board has had the opportunity to review the 4 minutes or transcripts from that, and, basically, it 5 would have been irrelevant to us in our limited 6 jurisdiction. 7 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Dennis, can I ask you 8 a couple of questions? 9 MR. OURY: Sure. 10 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: What is the exact 11 height of the proposed building? 12 MR. OURY: I think it's 120 feet. 13 Am I correct, 120 feet? 14 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: And how you can 15 take -- what is the height of the cliff, or how much 16 below? 17 MR. OURY: It's 40 feet. 18 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: The top of the 19 building from the cliff? 20 MR. OURY: It's 40 feet below the top 21 the cliff or the top of the Palisades. 22 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: So from anybody 23 standing on the lower east will not have an 24 obstruction? 25 MR. OURY: There's no obstacle. If 59 1 you are on top of Boulevard East, there's no obstacle 2 to your view, because we're 40 feet below, and that's 3 what I think that Arthur was talking about. The 4 zoning ordinance, whether you like the ordinance or 5 you don't like it, certainly did address the issue of 6 the height of the Palisades. This area of the 7 Palisades, I am told, is the highest point along the 8 North Bergen borderline. 9 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Are you taking enough 10 care so you can do the retaining wall or whatever is 11 necessary to prevent the cliff -- 12 MR. OURY: Yes. There was testimony 13 from the Board and, of course the local Building 14 Department will make sure that there are adequate 15 safety measures taken for what was discussed before, 16 that is any boulders, rocks coming down off of the 17 cliff. 18 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: And you have concern 19 with the city's residents, concern about the traffic 20 light and the -- 21 MR. OURY: Well, the way I look at it, 22 our proposal to you, and you hopefully will vote on 23 this proposal, includes a traffic light, so, in 24 effect, it is a condition of the approval, so if 25 something had to change -- in other words, if the 60 1 traffic light didn't get put in, I'd have to come 2 back to the Board. That's why I have no objection to 3 putting it in as a condition, because you've asked 4 for it, we've consented to it because we need it. 5 Also, because we want to have people be able to make 6 a left-hand turn to go up towards Edgewater, so if 7 something were to change, we weren't going to get the 8 light, we'd have to come back before this Board. 9 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: And T&M Associates 10 and Commissioner Jasek, you can say you did a 11 thorough review of this plan and you agree with the 12 traffic impact and you agree with the site plan? 13 MR. WHALEN: Again, our review is 14 limited to drainage issues along the county roadway, 15 ingress and egress from the county roadway and 16 general traffic along the county roadway. That's the 17 limitations of our review, and we're comfortable that 18 we've analyzed the traffic reports, amendments and 19 addendum that have been provided to our office and 20 we're in agreement with the calculations presented 21 therein. We also have reviewed the site plan and 22 we're comfortable with the radii and design waivers 23 for ingress and egress points. 24 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Commissioner Choffo, 25 you are the Site Plan Committee Review person. Do 61 1 you have any comment? 2 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: No. 3 Just the fact that North Bergen approved it, 4 and as George from T&M mentioned, that pretty much 5 provided everything they've asked us to do. 6 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: The attorney, Arthur 7 Glatman, mentioned definitely we like to have more 8 power, but as per jurisdiction, we have a limited 9 power. Like our expert and our Commissioner mention, 10 that we have a concern only about the drainage as 11 well as the traffic as well as the county road, and 12 by reviewing them and by listening to all the expert, 13 I think my opinion, rather than having, like other 14 Commissioner mention, Mr. Dublin, that having a dump 15 site, it will be good to have something else on the 16 project in the area. 17 I will ask for any Commissioner to put a 18 motion. 19 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Is that a 20 rendering of the project? 21 MR. OURY: No. No. It's just the 22 site line. We have the rendering. 23 MR. GLATMAN: Why don't we -- if I 24 might make two suggestions, we should mark the 25 exhibit. 62 1 MR. OURY: That's been marked. 2 MR. GLATMAN: And you'll maintain 3 possession of it. 4 If you have a site line, it may be helpful 5 for everyone here if you just show the site line to 6 the Board. 7 MR. OURY: This is the site line which 8 was marked before the Planning Board. You know what, 9 it's easier to just pass it around. 10 MR. GLATMAN: And make sure the public 11 could see it, also, if you'd like. 12 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Public portion is 13 closed. 14 MR. CHRONIC: There's just a few 15 corrections, perhaps additional information that I 16 think needs a little clarification. 17 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: After this testimony 18 or regarding this testimony or any other -- 19 MR. GLATMAN: Mr. Chairman, if I 20 might, we've had a little more additional information 21 brought before the Board. After my comments Mr. Oury 22 made some comments. I think it would be fair for Mr. 23 Chronic to make his comments, let him have full 24 record and we'll see where things go from there. 25 MR. CHRONIC: Thank you, very much. I 63 1 appreciate that. 2 First, on the height, and Mr. Oury, correct 3 me if I'm wrong. The building is 12 stories, but on 4 top of the building sits a shaft of about 17 feet 5 which brings the building up to about 137 feet, if I 6 recall from our last meeting. 7 MR. OURY: No. The structure on top 8 is an elevator shaft, which is a very small 9 percentage of the roof of the building, and under the 10 ordinance, and as you well know, you can't, you can't 11 include that in the height of the building. 12 MRS. CHRONIC: Why not? 13 MR. OURY: We are within the 14 ordinance. No. Height of the building is, as I 15 said, 120 feet. 16 MR. CHRONIC: And with the narrow 17 small sliver of shaft it's about 137 feet. 18 MR. OURY: I think it about 17 feet. 19 MR. CHRONIC: 17, that's what I 20 remember, okay. 21 And regarding, one of your Board Members was 22 reminiscing, 50 years ago, saying about garbage dump, 23 et cetera. 24 Sir, I have been living here for 30 years 25 now. You know, it's not allowed to dump garbage. 64 1 Garbage hasn't been dumped on River Road, to my 2 knowledge, in many, many -- in 30 years, so when you 3 say this is the best that we can get, is by getting 4 this building, I invite you to come look at the 5 Palisades, walk the Palisades, see the beauty, smell 6 the roses, don't talk about the garbage. There is 7 nothing there. We have a half moon project on River 8 Road, a very big development, we're building into the 9 Cliffs now another development, and there's another 10 development that I just mentioned, a -- I mean, 11 there's several projects coming, so it's not a dump 12 any longer, and I don't think when you make that kind 13 of analogy about comparing it to when, you know, 50 14 years ago, it's not relevant to where we are today as 15 the best use. 16 Thank you, very much, Mr. Chairman. 17 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: We not going into -- 18 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: To clarify, I 19 didn't say 50. I worked for the county 15 years ago 20 and I drove a snow plow on that road and I did work, 21 because we were responsible for the top of the cliff 22 on Boulevard East and also, the lower. We used to 23 find animals, goats, chickens. For years and years 24 we used to have to clean up that site, and I'm just 25 telling you from firsthand. I mean, I'm not a 65 1 resident there, but I'm just saying, it can be an 2 improvement because people who ride from, from other 3 cities come here and dump, and that's what I'm 4 saying, to improve that area, it will be, it will be 5 a definite plus. I mean, I been a county employee 6 for a long time, so I have worked that area many hot 7 summers dealing with animals that people do what they 8 do and drop them there. 9 Thank you. 10 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: I will ask 11 Commissioner, you know, we heard enough, and we had 12 an expert witness in testimony, also, so I will ask 13 Commissioner to review and make a motion. 14 MR. SCANOVINO: Can I ask you a 15 question, just before you vote? 16 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: We closed the public 17 portion and we heard enough testimony, I think. 18 MR. SCANOVINO: It's just a question, 19 not testimony. 20 The question is, the gentleman worked there 21 15 years ago -- and I don't know how old he is. 22 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: 35. 23 MR. SCANOVINO: God bless you. 24 -- and people dumped. They didn't dump in 25 the road, they dumped on the property. If they 66 1 dumped on the property, it was the town, not the 2 county. 3 35 years ago my uncle owned a roast beef 4 stand that was there that he probably doesn't even 5 know anything about, or most people in this room, and 6 for you, Mr. Chairman, to approve a 12 story project, 7 300 units with 100 -- with maybe 400 to 450 cars 8 because somebody dumped is very, very weak and 9 embarrassing to know that you're from North Bergen 10 and you're going to approve a project of this 11 magnitude because 15 years ago this gentleman worked 12 on the Road Department and had to clean up somebody's 13 goat that was -- 14 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Thank you. You 15 already mentioned your opinion and we heard it. We 16 closed the public portion. If you had any new 17 question, like we allow Mr. Chronic to mention, but, 18 please, we closed the public portion now. 19 MR. SCANOVINO: No. Okay. No. I 20 just wanted to say -- 21 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Thank you. 22 MR. SCANOVINO: I wanted you to 23 realize how weak your statement is about 15 years ago 24 someone dumping, that this gentleman -- 25 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: It is not my 67 1 statement, it is one person's opinion. We heard 2 enough now. That's why I'm asking my fellow 3 Commissioners to make their own judgment, and you can 4 even -- if they have any motion, please present the 5 motion. 6 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: I'll make a 7 motion to accept SP-50-04. 8 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Second. Second. 9 MRS. CHRONIC: We had a dumping 10 problem, it was approved by the Town Official and he 11 did three years for it, so we haven't had any 12 problems since. 13 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Steve, I think we 14 have a motion in front of us. 15 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a motion 16 to approve by Commissioner Choffo, seconded by 17 Commissioner Dublin: 18 Commissioner Avagliano? 19 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I vote aye, 20 providing the traffic light is installed for the 21 safety of everyone concerned. 22 Thank you. 23 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 24 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I vote aye, 25 with the condition of the traffic light being 68 1 installed. 2 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 3 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: I vote aye, 4 with the condition of the traffic light installed. 5 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Jasek? 6 COMMISSIONER JASEK: I vote aye, based 7 on the fact that many conditions posed by this Board 8 through the Review Committee must be complied with, 9 and I don't have any grounds on which I will deny 10 this project. I vote aye. 11 MR. MARKS: Chairman Mehta? 12 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: On the same comment 13 like Commissioner Jasek mentioned, that I like to 14 have more power, but, unfortunately, as per 15 restriction and county jurisdiction, we have a 16 limited power, and with going through the T&M as well 17 as our County Engineering, it was -- and Site Plan 18 Review, it was thoroughly reviewed, the project, and 19 all the Commissioners agree, and with them, I am 20 putting a condition, that traffic light is a must 21 condition and without that there will be -- no CO 22 will be issued by the North Bergen Town Hall. 23 MR. OURY: Yes. 24 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: With that, I approve 25 the project. 69 1 Good luck. 2 MR. MARKS: Chairman, the motion 3 passes. 4 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Next case, SP-91-04, 5 300-302 Mountain Road, Union City. 6 MR. LEIBMAN: Good evening, Members of 7 the Board. My name is Marc Leibman. I'm an attorney 8 with Kaufman, Gelbert & Bern and we represent the 9 applicant, 300-302 Mountain Road. 10 This is Robert Costa, the Project Engineer. 11 He will be sworn and he'll testify about all of the 12 details about this project. 13 MR. COSTA: Mr. Chairman, good 14 evening. Members of the Board, good evening. For 15 the record, my name is Robert Costa, Professional 16 Engineer in the State of New Jersey, 34702, 17 Professional Planner, 4639. 18 Should I slow up or should I keep going? Do 19 you want -- 20 ROBERT COSTA, P.E., P.P., having been first duly 21 sworn according to law, testified as follows: 22 MR. GLATMAN: Your counsel will 23 qualify you. 24 MR. LEIBMAN: Mr. Costa, give the 25 Board, again, your educational experience. 70 1 MR. COSTA: Absolutely. 2 Graduated the Manhattan College, I believe it 3 was in 1984, Bachelor of Engineering and Civil 4 Engineering, did my apprenticeship in Teaneck, New 5 Jersey under Bill Schwanaweiz (phonetic), went and 6 worked for him, went out in 1990, formed my own firm 7 and have been unemployed since then, since 1990. 8 MR. LEIBMAN: Do you regularly appear 9 before County Planning Boards, Zoning -- 10 MR. COSTA: Yes, I do. 11 I'm the Borough Engineer in the Borough of 12 River Edge. We're consultants to the Borough of Fort 13 Lee. We've done some consulting work to the Borough 14 of Edgewater, the Parking Authority Engineer in Fort 15 Lee. We've done some work for New Brunswick 16 Planning/Zoning Board Engineer in Leonia, 17 Planning/Zoning Board Engineer in Saddle Brook, and 18 numerous times I'm on this side trying to get 19 projects like this approved. 20 MR. LEIBMAN: Have you appeared 21 previously before this Board? 22 MR. COSTA: I have. 23 I actually appeared before this Board a 24 little over a year-and-a-half ago for my own project 25 on Manhattan Avenue in Union City. Currently, the 71 1 building is up -- and I believe we've closed on one 2 of those buildings. If anybody's been passed that 3 area and looked up, you see a very interesting 4 building that's stepped back on the cliff up top. I 5 was actually the Engineer and Developer on that one. 6 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Okay. We'll accept 7 as an expert in this case. 8 MR. COSTA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 9 MR. LEIBMAN: Mr. Costa, can you 10 please describe to the Board the site plan? 11 MR. COSTA: Very simply, we're just 12 around the corner off of Manhattan Avenue. 13 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Can you move 14 that a little closer? 15 MR. COSTA: Sure. 16 MR. LEIBMAN: Is that close enough, 17 Commissioner? 18 MR. COSTA: If you are familiar with 19 the viaducts coming out of Hoboken on 14th Street, if 20 you went up the viaduct, make a right-hand turn, 21 that's Manhattan Avenue; if you make a left-hand 22 turn, you go to Jersey City; make a right, you're 23 into Union City. 24 From that hill, as you come up to a, about a 25 four corner intersection, or five corner, is Mountain 72 1 Road. It's approximately three or four -- probably 2 200 feet off of the intersection of Manhattan 3 Avenue. This particular piece I purchased, along 4 with my, with my wife, and did a, basically, a joint 5 venture of agreement with the neighbor next door. 6 What we plan to do is come in and take the 7 project that I'm currently doing on Manhattan Avenue 8 and instead of a four star project, we want to get up 9 to six stars. 32 units, 22 stories high, duplex 10 penthouses, one resident per floor from the 14th 11 story up, two residents per floor from the first 12 story up to the 13th floor. Automated parking, 13 concierge. Very, very, very high-end. Unobstructed 14 views to New York City, unobstructed views into 15 Jersey City looking at your skyline. Absolutely 16 probably one of the greatest spots I've ever seen in 17 my life up there. 18 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Where is this 19 exactly, again? 20 MR. COSTA: As you go up the viaduct 21 and you make a right-hand turn on Manhattan, if you 22 are at that T-intersection, Yardley is sitting on 23 top. 24 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Near that 25 factory? 73 1 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: I know, like, 2 the factory right on the corner. 3 MR. COSTA: There's a, there's a 4 factory that, I think they're converting into lofts 5 or artists' space on the corner. 6 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: How far is your 7 project from there? 8 MR. COSTA: It would be directly 9 across the street. 10 I could enter this into evidence. I have a 11 small aerial. 12 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: I'm trying to 13 figure out where it is. 14 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Can you pass 15 that around? 16 MR. COSTA: Sure. 17 There's two, there's two little dots and that 18 would be the current property. 19 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Where is the -- 20 oh, this is the viaduct? 21 MR. LEIBMAN: Mr. Costa, there's an 22 exhibit that you've shown to the Board. That is 23 facing -- right now, can you just mark that as A-1, 24 and let's just mark the aerial photograph on the 25 back, Commissioner, if you could put A-2 on the back 74 1 of the aerial photograph, we would appreciate that, 2 Commissioner. 3 Mr. Costa, you prepared these plans that you 4 are showing the Board? 5 MR. COSTA: Not the architecturals. 6 MR. LEIBMAN: They were prepared at 7 your direction, though? 8 MR. COSTA: Yes. 9 MR. LEIBMAN: And you've reviewed 10 them? 11 MR. COSTA: Absolutely. 12 MR. LEIBMAN: And they're accurate? 13 MR. COSTA: Jose Kabio is the 14 architect for the project. Actually, we have an 15 office together in Hackensack, New Jersey. He has 16 one-half of the upper floor, I have the other half 17 for my engineering company. 18 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Where is parking 19 going to be located? 20 MR. COSTA: All the parking is on 21 site. 22 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Underneath? 23 MR. COSTA: Underneath. 24 MR. LEIBMAN: Mr. Costa -- 25 MR. COSTA: Yeah. I have that up 75 1 here. 2 MR. LEIBMAN: -- you have that up 3 there? 4 MR. COSTA: Yeah. I could pass that 5 around. 6 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: How many 7 parking spots? 8 MR. COSTA: We're providing 72 parking 9 spots, but it's going to be attendant parking. 10 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: How many 11 families? 12 MR. COSTA: 32 units. 13 I only have two of these. I apologize. 14 32 units, like I said. Penthouse in this 15 building is a duplex. 16 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: That's 17 yours? 18 MR. COSTA: No. 19 MR. LEIBMAN: How many parking spaces, 20 Mr. Costa? 21 MR. COSTA: 72. 22 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: You're saying 23 it's a 22 story building? 24 MR. COSTA: 22 story. 25 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: 32 residents? 76 1 MR. COSTA: Correct. 2 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: And the top or 3 fourth floor is going to be one -- 4 MR. COSTA: From zero to 13 will be 5 two residents per floor. Once you get to the 14th 6 floor, the building actually breaks back in, and 7 there will be a terrace on the 14th floor and that 8 becomes one resident per floor. That goes up to, I 9 believe the 19th floor. 10 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: How many 11 bedrooms? 12 MR. COSTA: It will be a mix between 13 two bedrooms and then the upper, obviously the upper 14 one is four bedrooms. 15 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Are these 16 rentals? 17 MR. COSTA: Condos. 18 The upper penthouse I believe is somewhere 19 around 9,000 square feet with the open terrace. 20 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: I want that. 21 MR. COSTA: The current building that 22 I'm finishing up now, Barret Green, he's currently a 23 linebacker for the Giants, and Jeremy Shockey was 24 there, but if he keeps dropping footballs on the 25 weekends, we don't want him there. 77 1 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Oh, he's coming 2 here? 3 MR. COSTA: I don't know if he's 4 coming here or not. 5 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Because I live 6 in a building on Manhattan Avenue. I saw that. I 7 was working for the Road Department at the time. It 8 was set back off the Cliffs. 9 You designed that building? 10 MR. COSTA: I actually -- I don't know 11 what I was thinking of, but I said I'm going to come 12 in, hang off the cliff, and we're going to make it 13 set back and we're going to make it a little bit 14 different than everything else there. A tremendous 15 amount of people are interested, different people in 16 the neighborhood that I've met. I've actually -- my 17 joint venture partner who was in the back -- there, 18 he is -- we actually were in opposition to one of the 19 first projects I had down in this area, and from 20 dealing with him for three years, I figured if I 21 can't beat them, I might as well join them, so that's 22 why we decided to go forward with this one. 23 MR. LEIBMAN: There's going to be 24 valet? 25 MR. COSTA: Valet, yeah, 24/7. 78 1 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Swimming 2 pool? 3 MR. COSTA: No amenities like that. 4 Strictly -- when I say high-end, there's no internal 5 amenities. All the buildings, everything will be 6 designed. If you wanted a jacuzzi inside this, the 7 floor's going to be designed to carry that weight, 8 similar to the other buildings I have. If you wanted 9 to put a swimming pool inside, you could. 10 foot 10 ceilings, I believe, clear, are going to be on this. 11 Basically, you hit the penthouse, drop off your keys, 12 give it to the attendant. 13 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: How many 14 bathrooms? 15 MR. COSTA: If you want to go to the 16 penthouse 22 stories up and be on top of the world, 17 you can do that. 18 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: You have a 19 master bathroom? 20 MR. COSTA: Master bathroom, yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Two bedrooms per 22 unit? 23 MR. LEIBMAN: Just mark that A-3. 24 MR. COSTA: I apol -- I didn't -- I 25 apol -- 79 1 MR. LEIBMAN: Just mark it A-3. 2 MR. COSTA: Typical floor plan. 3 MR. LEIBMAN: What is that, Mr. 4 Costa? 5 MR. COSTA: Typical floor plan. 6 I should have came down with more, and I 7 certainly apologize. 8 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: You might have 9 mentioned this, but I forgot. 10 How many parking spaces you said it had? 11 MR. COSTA: 72. It will be on two 12 floors. 13 In the way we're doing this, we're 14 eliminating ramps. I've reached out for different 15 people in the elevator business. There's going to be 16 an elevator that's going to then take the car to a 17 second level, and by doing so, we can keep the 18 footprint of the building more smaller, but, 19 obviously, the downside is you have to be on an 20 attendant system, so you're going to have to have 21 people at the building 24/7, which, on the other side 22 of the coin, you're going to have security. I think 23 if you want to be here, it's nice. 24 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: If, for 25 whatever reason, there's no electricity, there's no 80 1 way to get the cars out? 2 MR. COSTA: Generators. Where, 3 actually, this plan shows one elevator, we're 4 actually going to install a second one, just in case 5 that elevator goes down and they can get their cars 6 out. 7 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: No outside 8 parking? 9 MR. COSTA: No outside parking. 10 Also, what we're going to try to do, even 11 though it's not probably that detailed in this 12 drawing, we're going to try to make the outside look 13 more like two different types of architecture. The 14 outside, we might use a Mediterranean type flare,