1 1 HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD 2 IN RE: ) ) TRANSCRIPT OF 3 MONTHLY MEETING ) PROCEEDINGS: ) 4 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _) Administrative Annex 5 567 Pavonia Avenue Freeholders Chambers 6 Jersey City, New Jersey Wednesday, January 19, 2005 7 7:00 p.m. 8 B E F O R E: 9 RUSHABH MEHTA, CHAIRMAN 10 MARY E. AVAGLIANO, VICE-CHAIRMAN 11 RENEE BETTINGER, COMMISSIONER 12 MICHAEL HOLLOWAY, COMMISSIONER 13 JUDE FITZGIBBONS, COMMISSIONER 14 THOMAS LIGGIO, FREEHOLDER 15 DANIEL CHOFFO, COMMISSIONER 16 DEMETRIO ARENCIBIA, COMMISSIONER 17 A L S O P R E S E N T: 18 ARTHUR GLATMAN, ESQ., Board Attorney 19 STEPHEN MARKS, Board Secretary 20 Reported By: 21 MICHELLE GRUENDEL, C.S.R. 22 REPORTING SERVICES ARRANGED THROUGH 23 VERITEXT/NEW JERSEY REPORTING COMPANY, L.L.C. Kabot Battaglia & Hammer Suburban Shorthand 24 Waga and Spinelli Arthur J. Frannicola CSR 25B Vreeland Road 25 Florham Park, New Jersey 07932 Tel: 973-410-4040 Fax: 973-410-1313 2 1 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Please, meeting 2 called to the order. 3 Arthur, is this public -- Open Public Meeting 4 Act? 5 MR. GLATMAN: The Board Secretary has 6 filed proper notices, publications for the meeting. 7 We are in compliance with the Sunshine Law. 8 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Okay. Thank you. 9 Steve, can you do the roll call, please? 10 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 11 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Here. 12 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 13 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Here. 14 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Choffo? 15 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Here. 16 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Dublin? 17 Not here. 18 Commissioner Fitzgibbons? 19 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Yup. 20 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 21 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Here. 22 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Jasek, 23 represented by Demetrio Arencibia? 24 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Here. 25 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Liggio? 3 MONTHLY MEETING 1 COMMISSIONER LIGGIO: Here. 2 MR. MARKS: Chairman Mehta? 3 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Here. 4 MR. MARKS: Chairman, we have a 5 quorum. 6 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Please, everybody 7 rise. 8 (Flag Salute takes place.) 9 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Review and adoption 10 of the meeting minutes from December 15th. 11 MR. GLATMAN: I'm sorry. Could you 12 repeat that? 13 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Review and adoption 14 of meeting minutes, December 15th. 15 MR. GLATMAN: We have, we have the 16 minutes. 17 Is there a motion to accept the minutes? 18 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I make the 19 motion to accept the minutes as read. 20 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: I second it. 21 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Steve, can you 22 just -- 23 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a motion 24 made by Commissioner Fitzgibbons and seconded by 25 Commissioner Holloway: Commissioner Avagliano? 4 MONTHLY MEETING 1 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 2 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 3 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Aye. 4 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Choffo? 5 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Aye. 6 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Arencibia? 7 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 8 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Liggio? 9 COMMISSIONER LIGGIO: Aye. 10 MR. MARKS: And Chairman Mehta? 11 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Aye. 12 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 13 passes. 14 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Next, public comment 15 on Agenda items: Public Hearing, one is on the 16 Hudson River Waterfront Walkway Plan and one is on 17 the Public Hearing on State Plan Hudson County Cross 18 Acceptance. 19 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: We'll hear A 20 first. Aren't we? 21 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, if I could 22 just recap from the last meeting, the Waterfront 23 Walkway Plan was introduced at the December 15th 24 meeting. We have distributed hundreds of copies of 25 the plan to municipalities, nonprofit organizations 5 MONTHLY MEETING 1 and other community groups. It's been posted to the 2 County's web site and we've received hundreds of hits 3 or downloads of the plan. In your packets this 4 evening are a set of comments, e-mails and regular 5 letters which we received and the responses thereto 6 and suggestions for the, for updating or revising the 7 Waterfront Walkway Plan. 8 Tonight's meeting is just for a last 9 opportunity to give the public an opportunity to 10 speak and to be heard and at the next meeting the 11 Planning Board will consider a motion to accept and 12 refer the plan to the Freeholder's Board. 13 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: So we are going to 14 open it to the public for hearing purposes? 15 MR. MARKS: If there are any members 16 of the public who would like to speak on the 17 Waterfront Walkway Plan. 18 MR. AVAGLIANO: On the what? 19 MR. MARKS: The Hudson River 20 Waterfront. 21 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Wait. 22 Somebody's up there already. 23 MR. AVAGLIANO: Sorry. 24 MR. HINE: My name is Ron Hine. I'm 25 a -- 6 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. GLATMAN: Excuse me. Would you 2 just repeat your name again? I'm sorry. 3 MR. HINE: My name is Ron Hine, 4 H-I-N-E. I'm a resident of Hoboken, 258 Newark 5 Street, and I'm the Executive Director of the Fund 6 for a Better Waterfront, which is a nonprofit group. 7 Can you hear me okay? 8 MR. GLATMAN: Yes. 9 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Yes. 10 MR. GLATMAN: He doesn't have to be 11 sworn. He's making comments on the Walkway. 12 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Okay. 13 MR. HINE: I'd like to thank you, 14 very, very much for undertaking this plan which, of 15 course, is extremely valuable pertaining to what can 16 potentially be one of the most extraordinary assets 17 in Hudson County in extending up through Bergen 18 County as well. 19 I have been actively involved in waterfront 20 planning issues for the last 14 years, beginning in 21 Hoboken and extending up into Weehawken, Jersey City, 22 Guttenberg and beyond. One of the first Waterfronts 23 I became engaged with was in Hoboken, when the City 24 of Hoboken and The Port Authority of New York and New 25 Jersey proposed a development at the South 7 MONTHLY MEETING 1 Waterfront, and that -- fortunately, that plan was 2 defeated in two public referenda in 1990 and 1992. 3 Part of that proposal included a 33-story tower, 4 which was 1.1 million square feet of development on 5 Pier A at the south end of Hoboken, and due to the 6 referenda, that was defeated, and now it is a 7 magnificent five acre park. 8 We recognized early on that the State 9 Waterfront Walkway Guidelines in and of themselves 10 weren't sufficient to really protect the waterfront 11 and to help realize the waterfront for its full 12 potential, so what we did was we hired an Urban 13 Planner and we came up with a plan for the Hoboken 14 Waterfront. There's a couple very basic principals 15 that we learned by creating this plan for the Hoboken 16 Waterfront, and in, in this report, on page 14, it 17 speaks to some of these design issues. One is the 18 public issue of public versus private. There's also 19 a series of -- there's a discussion that follows in 20 this report about security problems that exist in 21 parts of the Walkway, and one of the things that we 22 learned in Hoboken was if you design it right, you 23 can solve these problems, and the plan that we 24 created, what it did was it extended the public 25 street grid down to the waterfront, and the public 8 MONTHLY MEETING 1 streets are, of course, the public rights-of-way. 2 They include the streets, the sidewalks, and it's how 3 you get around urban areas. It's actually the 4 greatest amount of open space in an urban area, are 5 the streets and the sidewalks, so by extending them 6 to the waterfront, you're creating full public access 7 to what should be a public waterfront park, and 8 that's what we're on our way to creating in Hoboken. 9 The key thing that makes it work is that all 10 the east/west streets, except at Castle Point, for 11 those of you who are familiar with Hoboken, lead to 12 the waterfront, Newark Street, First Street, Second 13 Street, Third Street, all the way up to 15th Street. 14 It makes it very easy to get down to the waterfront, 15 and then at the waterfront you have Sinatra Drive. 16 Sinatra Drive is the demarcation line, it's the 17 separation between the public waterfront and the 18 upland private development, and because you have that 19 street there, the front door starts the waterfront. 20 Now, if you go to other parts of the waterfront you 21 will see something dramatically different. There's a 22 lack of a public street system, and often there are 23 private -- with guardhouses, fences, gates that make 24 it difficult to get to what's supposed to be a public 25 waterfront park, so what, what I want to present to 9 MONTHLY MEETING 1 you tonight is that in order to make this work, you 2 really have to think about planning that should take 3 place on the waterfront sites that are yet 4 undeveloped. If the proper planning takes place at 5 these sites, you will have an extraordinary public -- 6 you'll have created an extraordinary public 7 waterfront, and those opportunities are very quickly 8 disappearing. You can see from this report, much of 9 the waterfront has been developed, much of the 10 walkway is in place, but we can certainly have far 11 more than the minimum 30 foot walkway, and you can 12 see that in Hoboken. 13 Now, one other thing that I want to point out 14 about the Hoboken -- the South Waterfront in Hoboken 15 is that there are lots of trees, there's lots of 16 grass, there's lots of landscaping. If you go down 17 there on a hot summer day, that provides you shelter, 18 that provides -- it allows you to stay cool on a -- 19 you know, when the sun is bearing down, and if you go 20 to other portions of the waterfront, that doesn't 21 exist, and that's very unfortunate, so in, in terms 22 of the design features that are important for this 23 report, I just want to emphasize that, how important 24 that is. 25 I just have a few comments about some of the 10 MONTHLY MEETING 1 gap sites. I just wanted to refer to a few of them 2 that I'm familiar with. I did notice on your Agenda 3 that -- the first one I wanted to mention, which is 4 the northeast quadrant in the Newport area of Jersey 5 City. 6 Now, here you have the one portion of Jersey 7 City's Waterfront that's yet to be developed. Here 8 you have a wonderful opportunity to do it right, and 9 what you see in much of the other parts of Jersey 10 City's Waterfront is a good example of the lack of 11 planning, and even though the walkway exists for most 12 of that waterfront, it falls far short of the 13 standards that should have been created before the 14 development took place. 15 The next site further north is the New Jersey 16 Transit property. It is the connection from Jersey 17 City into Hoboken, and this report, I think, puts the 18 responsibility in the wrong place, because my 19 understanding is that New Jersey Transit itself and 20 the developers at the light rail system are the ones 21 that are responsible for putting the walkway in 22 adjacent to the light rail. It's a $2 billion 23 system. I believe that out of that budget that the 24 walkway should be built there connecting Hoboken into 25 Jersey City. The rest of the walkway in Hoboken is 11 MONTHLY MEETING 1 complete, up to Fourth Street when you get to -- or 2 no, I'm sorry -- Fifth Street, beyond Fifth Street, 3 which is where Sinatra Park ends and the Stevens 4 Institute property starts. Now, this has been 5 down-zoned. Only a two-story development is allowed 6 there, and according to this report, Stevens is 7 putting in the -- is it for Meritime Systems 8 (phonetic)? That plan has been dropped. They're 9 keeping that on Hudson Street where the Davidson Lab 10 is now, so here is a wonderful opportunity to fill in 11 that gap site. 12 The only other site that I'm going to mention 13 is in Guttenberg. I'm familiar with the group there 14 that fails to create Guttenberg's only park. 15 Guttenberg has no parks at their waterfront. They 16 have an opportunity to create a one acre waterfront 17 park and I think that the County should do everything 18 within its powers to help make sure that that becomes 19 a reality, because that's a wonderful opportunity for 20 that small community, and, of course, there are many 21 other gap sites, but I'm just addressing the ones 22 that I am familiar with. 23 Thank you, very much. 24 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Ron, can I 25 ask you a question? 12 MONTHLY MEETING 1 The dry dock company there, Union Dye -- 2 MR. HINE: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Now, I know 4 that that patch of land there, I don't know if 5 they're gonna' be there, how long, but it seems to me 6 that that pretty extensive piece of property near 7 that prevents people from continuing to go around 8 Maxwell House to Weehawken. I don't know what the 9 answer there is, you know. 10 MR. HINE: I know that Stevens 11 Institute wanted to buy it. The asking price was too 12 high. I do know that. 13 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: That's the 14 problem that some people are going to run into, 15 because some of these sites along the river coast, 16 not only Hudson River, but the Harrison River -- 17 what's it, the Harrison River? 18 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Passaic. 19 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Passaic, 20 right. 21 These companies and these industries own 22 these properties here. I don't know what the answer 23 is on how we could get that property and develop it 24 into a ball field with a walkway. I mean -- you know 25 what I mean? 13 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. HINE: Well, as long as it's an 2 existing waterfront use, I think it's fine for as 3 long as it wants to stay there. I think eventually 4 they're going to leave because they have a very 5 expensive dredging cost to undertake every three 6 years or so, so probably they're going to eventually 7 relocate. 8 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: That's the 9 only really industrial site that's on the waterfront 10 in Hoboken. 11 MR. HINE: That's right. That's 12 right. So eventually that will become -- there will 13 be an opportunity to do something there, but that 14 might be a number of years off. 15 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Okay. 16 MR. HINE: Thank you, very much. 17 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Thank you. 18 MR. AVAGLIANO: Peter Avagliano, 19 Jersey City. 20 The part of the walkway which comes to 21 question is set in between Exchange Place and Liberty 22 State Park. According to the article in the 23 newspaper, there's some group looking to run it 24 straight across the water basin. I see nothing in 25 the plan that calls for that. 14 MONTHLY MEETING 1 Is there any talk about a bridge crossing the 2 water basin? Does anybody have an answer to that 3 question right now? 4 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, there has 5 been discussion over the years and ideas put forth 6 about how to connect the neighborhood of Jersey City 7 and the Exchange Place area of Jersey City with 8 Liberty State Park. Stevens Institute actually took 9 a look at a class project, and I think it was a 10 project for the graduating class, which they looked 11 at some of the costs and the benefits of alternatives 12 and alternative analysis. One of the ideas that was 13 put forth, it was deemed too expensive, was a bridge, 14 pedestrian/bicycle bridge spanning the Morris Canal. 15 That would have to be a certain height to accommodate 16 the Morris Canal as a navigable waterway, and it 17 would have to be a certain height to allow for the 18 ferries and other sailboats and such to enter and 19 exit, so that was deemed -- the bridge was deemed 20 infeasible, but there's been other ideas about a 21 ferry of some sort. Essentially, there hasn't been 22 any satisfactory or feasible way to allow the 23 residents and workers of Jersey City to access 24 Liberty State Park without either getting in their 25 car or walking all the way to the end of the Morris 15 MONTHLY MEETING 1 Canal and back again. 2 MR. AVAGLIANO: Crossing over. 3 Okay. Thank you, very much. 4 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Anybody else? 5 MS. MANOGUE: I just came in. I'm 6 sorry I'm late. 7 This is the hearing on the Hudson River 8 Walkway -- 9 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Yes. 10 MS. MANOGUE: -- study; is that 11 correct? 12 Okay. My name is Helen Manogue. I have been 13 a resident of Hoboken for about 43 years, sort of a 14 transplant from Manhattan, and of those 43 years in 15 Hoboken 22 years of them was spent at 1108 Park 16 Avenue. I'm going into this explanation because 17 right at this very moment as I'm standing in front of 18 you I do not live in Hoboken. I am temporarily 19 living in Dover, New Jersey, and I can tell you, it 20 was difficult getting in here this evening from 21 Dover, but I will be going back to Hoboken again 22 hopefully, fingers crossed, in about a month into a 23 new condo which isn't quite ready yet. 24 I am here tonight really with two purposes. 25 One is to express the gratitude of people who, back 16 MONTHLY MEETING 1 in 1977, got together and decided they were going to 2 fight to create something that we call the bike path 3 along the waterfront, which turned out to be, after 4 our many, many years and days of lobbying for it, 5 turned out to be the Hudson River Walkway. There 6 were well over 200 people who did that fight from 7 1973 and 1978 and 1979, and so on their behalf and on 8 behalf of the group called the Waterfront Coalition 9 of Hudson and Bergen, I do want to express our thanks 10 to you people for having had the study done. 11 Secondly, also to say how pleased we are to 12 see that the walkway, which was considered in 1977 to 13 be absolutely a fool's dream, that it would never 14 happen, that it has started, and even though it is 15 not proceeding as quickly as we would have liked it, 16 at least it is, it is going forward. 17 The other purpose that I'm here for tonight 18 is on behalf of the Hudson River Waterfront 19 Conservancy. I am the Secretary of that 20 organization. For those of you who are not familiar 21 with that group, the conservancy was started, really, 22 at the behest of the Department of Environmental 23 Protection back in 1988, and I am privileged to be 24 one of the charter members and founders of that 25 group. I have not been with the conservancy all that 17 MONTHLY MEETING 1 time, unfortunately, but I do -- did want to come 2 this evening, again, to thank your organization, you, 3 for having gotten the funds together to do this 4 study, which, by and large, the conservancy board 5 feels is a very good overview, a good study, it's 6 comprehensive and it is something that we feel is 7 going to hold us all very good over the next years as 8 we go into completing the walkway. 9 Now, one of the, one of the objectives of the 10 conservancy back in 1988, as it is today, is to see 11 to the completion of that walkway. One of the things 12 we would say about the study is that we felt there 13 should have been a little more emphasis on the fact 14 that top priority has to be given to the completion 15 of that walkway on behalf of Hudson County itself. 16 We see that -- we know that the study itself, its 17 goal and objective was the completion of the walkway, 18 but we feel that there should have been more of an 19 urging to Hudson County itself for that completion. 20 We also agree with what the study said on 21 page six, that in order to reach successful 22 completion, waterfront issues must be dealt with in a 23 consistent manner. As the study shows and as our 16 24 years experience in conservancy has shown, there is 25 not consistency when it comes to what happens on the 18 MONTHLY MEETING 1 waterfront, anything from signage to development of 2 the lands or projects, and we do agree with you that 3 there has to be a consistency. The study itself 4 says, well, let's try to get some people together and 5 let's have a workshop on design. We would like to 6 even suggest something more than that to appear in 7 the study, that there would be a series of -- or 8 maybe a two-day conference where you would call 9 together groups or representations for groups, such 10 as Regional Plan Association Trust for Public Lands, 11 the Palisades Interstate Park Commission, the 12 municipalities that line the waterfront and, 13 obviously, the Hudson County officials as well as the 14 Waterfront Center of Washington, D.C., which has a 15 tremendous amount of experience and contacts with 16 waterfront development, not only throughout this 17 country, but also around the world. We really feel 18 that there is a call here for Hudson County and, 19 indeed, it would probably be done by this very body, 20 by the Hudson County Planning Board, to see that this 21 group gets together, that these experts come together 22 and start discussing the various issues that still 23 remain open and still remain, to a certain extent, 24 troublesome all along the waterfront. 25 We agree with you that there have been 19 MONTHLY MEETING 1 problems, there have been snags, and it's one of the 2 reasons why it has been so difficult to complete the 3 entire waterfront walkway. One of the things that we 4 have learned over our 16 years of experience in going 5 and meeting with municipalities, with mayors, with 6 zoning boards all up and down the waterfront, also 7 with developers and with land owners, and the one 8 uniting thing that we found out, even with 9 municipalities, is there is this sense that everybody 10 is operating under an obligation that has been forced 11 upon them by the State of New Jersey, and that is to 12 put a walkway. It is seen as a burden in some 13 cases. It's seen as just something we can put on the 14 side and we can, you know, just slip in whenever we 15 can just to meet the obligation, but we don't think 16 of it any further. One of the things that our 17 conservancy is saying, that there is something here 18 besides the obligation, and that is the fact that 19 municipalities and developers also should see the 20 walkway as an economic development resource. It is a 21 tool for overall economic development within 22 municipalities. We agree with the study that design, 23 to a great extent, has been a problem. It's been 24 in -- it's a situation where the developers have gone 25 in, they did not want to use the land area property. 20 MONTHLY MEETING 1 In order to be able to make the separation between 2 the public and the private as good as they have, and 3 some of the older projects that are out there, all 4 you have to do is go and see them and you can 5 understand, design is a difficulty there, and we 6 agree with the study on that. 7 We agree that there should be a workshop with 8 municipal planning people, planning boards and zoning 9 boards, et cetera, with DEP people to start figuring 10 out, how do we design better and what, what are -- 11 what is the role, what is the role for individual 12 municipalities. There's other boards and planning 13 boards. The problem areas that we see and agree with 14 you, with the study on signage is poor. It's one of 15 the main germane problems along the waterfront. 16 People just don't know how to get access to the 17 walkway, and the permits that have been issued are 18 part of the problem here. When these projects come 19 in front of zoning boards or planning boards, it 20 really should be up to those boards to insist that 21 their be adequate signage. 22 The other thing that's a difficulty there, 23 and, again, it goes back to the permit process, and 24 that is perpendicular access. This is an extremely 25 difficult problem with the entire walkway and it is 21 MONTHLY MEETING 1 something that has to be taken care of. You can go 2 along River Road, and in some instances, the entrance 3 road to the walkway is nothing more than a small 4 lane. It might be paved, maybe it's not paved. If 5 it is paved, it might have a very narrow sidewalk. A 6 mother with a baby carriage or a stroller going down 7 that area many times has to go actually out into the 8 roadway itself because that small width of, of 9 walkway, of pedestrian area is actually obstructed 10 with either fire hydrants or with electrical poles or 11 telephone poles of some sort, so there has to be, 12 there has to be more consideration in something that 13 I really feel and the conservancy feels there needs 14 to be a lot more focus on the fact that 15 municipalities must, in fact, pay more attention in 16 the permitting process in developing these areas. We 17 agree that there can be a sense of difficulty with 18 security, but there is, there is a section that -- 19 well -- 20 We did, in fact, submit seven pages to you of 21 comments, but I'd like to just take the time to read 22 a couple of sections in here. 23 This one having to do with safety and 24 security. The issue of security is raised in a 25 number of places in this document without any 22 MONTHLY MEETING 1 demonstration of a security problem on the walkway. 2 It is also placed as the second issue in the document 3 after alignment, creating the impression that lack of 4 security is a prominent issue to be addressed. The 5 walkway has been in existence for many years, and the 6 conservancy has been in existence almost as long. We 7 have yet to receive reports of security being an 8 issue, of such concern that it should be a policy. 9 The walkway is an urban -- is in an urban community, 10 and that is its strength. Part of what we have to 11 understand is the perceptions that are out there, the 12 dangers that might exist are really just that, they 13 are perceptions. 14 Now, I know the study does talk about 15 sponsoring analysis of crime, and that goes with the 16 security and safety issue. We are concerned that 17 it's not just crime that we ought to be looking at. 18 Where are the instances? How many phone calls have 19 been made by the people who live in those communities 20 immediately adjacent to the walkway? How many calls 21 have been made to the police about -- and what kinds 22 of things? Is it just noise after 10:00 o'clock at 23 night? Is it noise at one or two in the morning? Is 24 it really crime that is being reported or asking the 25 police to come and investigate? Besides the crime 23 MONTHLY MEETING 1 statistics, we ought to be looking at how many of 2 those phone calls are made either to the police or to 3 the security forces within the various, the various 4 locations. 5 There is also another issue that we're really 6 concerned about, and that is the 24 hour access 7 rule. Here again, I'd just briefly like to read part 8 of what we have in our statement. The report leaves 9 the impression that less than 24 hour access is 10 desirable, based upon vague expectations, and yet 11 also calls for this crime survey. Further, the 12 report also states the 24 hour access is not allowed 13 in other parts of the country without any discussion 14 of why or whether it was ever considered by those 15 areas of the country. Just because it doesn't exist 16 elsewhere does not make it the best thing for the 17 Hudson River Walkway. There are things we agree with 18 that give a sense of lack of security, lack of safety 19 and why there shouldn't be 24 hour access, and that, 20 again, goes back in the design considerations. Many 21 of these locations that have been up for a while, 22 gated communities give a sense of, oh, my God, 23 there's got to be a problem here, that has to be a 24 safety or security problem, when, in fact, that might 25 not necessarily be the case. 24 MONTHLY MEETING 1 The survey we talked about before, which we 2 agree should be done, should really be an all 3 inclusive one and it should be a survey that also has 4 the opportunity to sit down and talk with people who 5 actually live in these communities. 6 The last thing -- and I know you have other 7 things on your Agenda tonight to deal with. The last 8 thing that I think really has to be pointed out is, I 9 know there are concerns by people who live, live in 10 these communities about a whole raft of things, but 11 there two things; one is the public trust doctrine 12 which actually has been defended in court. The 13 courts have found that the public trust doctrine 14 does, in fact, pertain to the Hudson River Walkway. 15 In other words, the right of the general public to 16 have free access to that waterfront. 17 The other thing is the DEP regulations. It 18 should be remembered that way, way early on when we 19 first started, back in the seventies, to talk about 20 waterfront developments and what can be done there. 21 The DEP said the only kind of development that will 22 be allowed on the waterfront is water dependent 23 uses. One of the things that happened is, is that 24 the walkway is a waterfront dependent, a water 25 dependent use. It is the only reason that the 25 MONTHLY MEETING 1 residential, the office buildings, the commercial 2 buildings are being allowed to be built in that area 3 along the waterfront. It is the walkway itself that 4 makes all of that possible. 5 We do, once more, thank you for the, for the 6 study and we look forward, as the conservancy, to be 7 of assistance in whatever way we can, in planning 8 future workshops or meetings or anything of that 9 sort. 10 Thank you, so much. 11 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, in your 12 packet there is the correspondence and the seven or 13 eight page letter from the conservancy. It's 14 included in your package tonight. 15 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Anybody else like to 16 make a comment on Waterfront Walkway? 17 We'll close the Public Hearing for that 18 portion. 19 Steve, how we are going to take all the other 20 letters we receive on this matter on the record? 21 MR. GLATMAN: What we do is by 22 mentioning the package that has been submitted to the 23 Board Members, we added as part of the record, the 24 formal record of the hearing, so for whatever 25 purposes are -- whatever is required, it's part of 26 MONTHLY MEETING 1 the record. That's not a problem. 2 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: All right, so let's 3 open the Public Hearing on the second matter, State 4 Plan Hudson County Cross Acceptance. 5 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, just as a 6 point of order, as was discussed at the December 7 meeting, New Jersey is updating its state plan. 8 They've asked all 21 counties to facilitate what's 9 called a Cross Acceptance process. Hudson County, 10 the Division of Planning has prepared a Cross 11 Acceptance report reaching out to all the 12 municipalities and incorporating their developments 13 and their take and response to various state 14 policies. That, that report was included in your 15 packet. The Division of Planning established two 16 public comment opportunities for the public, an 17 evening public comment, being this Public Hearing 18 this evening, and a day time public comment, Public 19 Hearing being tomorrow at Casino in the Park in 20 Lincoln Park, Jersey City, so the notice of Public 21 Hearing was sent out to the municipalities, copies of 22 the plan have been sent out to the towns. We have 23 had -- the Division of Planning and the Hudson 24 County's Comprehensive Economic Development Strategy 25 Committee, CEDS Committee, has held numerous meetings 27 MONTHLY MEETING 1 over the past 10 months on this subject, so, again, 2 like the Waterfront Walkway, we are giving the public 3 ample opportunity, a final opportunity to say their 4 peace. We have been accepting e-mails and other 5 correspondence and letters and such on the Cross 6 Acceptance update. What was in the package was a 7 draft copy of the Cross Acceptance report, so having 8 said that, I don't know if there's anybody here to 9 speak on that. 10 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Okay. Then we will 11 close the public portion and we'll move to the 12 next -- next one is memorialization of resolutions 13 approved at last meeting: Application SP-63-04, 14 Vineland Construction Company; SD-108-04, Port 15 Imperial South, LLC; SD-114-04, Walmart/Vineland 16 Construction Company. 17 Do I have a resolution for -- 18 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: A motion to 19 memorialize? 20 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Yes. 21 MR. GLATMAN: Motion to memorialize 22 SP-63-04, SD-108-04 and SD-114-04. 23 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I'll second 24 that. 25 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, if I may, 28 MONTHLY MEETING 1 the Assistant County Engineer, Dimetrio Arencibia, 2 had some comments about the Vineland Construction 3 memorialization. 4 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Yes. 5 I just wanted to reiterate that I recently 6 got a letter from the engineer from Walmart where 7 they're looking to evaluate the Skylar Avenue/Bergen 8 Avenue intersection after the Walmart's built, but 9 they need to address it before the Walmart's opened, 10 so I wanted to make sure that's included in the 11 resolution as a condition. They have to upgrade the 12 signal at Bergen Avenue and Skylar Avenue. 13 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: We don't want 14 to memorialize that one? You do not want to 15 memorialize that one for Skylar? 16 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Well, if that 17 could be added to the condition, I would be willing 18 to vote for it. 19 MR. GLATMAN: Those were among the 20 conditions, but we can -- that's why it's brought to 21 the Board, to review and make comments before we 22 memorialize, so what we can do is we can clarify 23 that, go into greater detail about more specifics and 24 have it available for the next meeting. That's not a 25 problem. 29 MONTHLY MEETING 1 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: We'll 3 withdraw on that Vineland. 4 MR. GLATMAN: That would be the proper 5 thing to do. 6 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: All right. I 7 will withdraw Vineland Construction Company, 8 SP-63-04. 9 Second? 10 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I'll second 11 it. 12 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a motion 13 made by Commissioner Avagliano and seconded by 14 Commissioner Bettinger: Commissioner Choffo? 15 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Abstain. 16 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Fitzgibbons? 17 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 18 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 19 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 20 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Arencibia? 21 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 22 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Liggio? 23 COMMISSIONER LIGGIO: Aye. 24 MR. MARKS: Chairman Mehta? 25 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Aye. 30 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 2 passes. 3 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Next, applications 4 declared to be exempt: Application SP-113-04, Jersey 5 City Medical Center; SP-116-04, Sprint; SD-117-04, 6 Ramjett Davidial; SP-01-05, Cell. Telephone, AT&T 7 Wireless; SP-02-05, Enterprise Rent-A-Car. 8 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: I'll make a 9 motion to declare these applications exempt. 10 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I'll second 11 it. 12 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a motion 13 made by Commissioner Fitzgibbons -- I mean 14 Commissioner Choffo and seconded by Commissioner 15 Fitzgibbons: Commissioner Avagliano? 16 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 17 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 18 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Aye. 19 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 20 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 21 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Arencibia? 22 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 23 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Liggio? 24 COMMISSIONER LIGGIO: Aye. 25 MR. MARKS: Chairman Mehta? 31 MONTHLY MEETING 1 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Aye. 2 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 3 passes. 4 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: First application, 5 SP/SD-106-04, Marek and Suzann Mickiewicz, 1092-1094 6 Kennedy Boulevard, Bayonne. 7 MR. ROSE: Good evening. My name is 8 Stephen Rose. I'm an attorney. I represent the 9 applicant. 10 This is an application for a minor 11 subdivision of property in Bayonne that fronts on 12 Kennedy Boulevard. Property is approximately 50 feet 13 by 113 feet. There's presently a three-family house 14 on the 25 feet of the southerly most 25 feet. The 15 northerly 25 feet is completely vacant. Application 16 has been made to the Bayonne Board of Adjustment, the 17 Zoning Board of Adjustment for the one variance that 18 we need, which is a bulk variance. The application's 19 still pending. We haven't had a hearing date set 20 yet. The work, the proposed work that is to be done 21 does not involve any driveway cuts on Kennedy 22 Boulevard, it does not involve any interference with 23 the present sidewalk or asphalt or curb, curb-cuts, 24 and there are no curbing along Kennedy Boulevard. If 25 the subdivision is granted, it will create two lots 32 MONTHLY MEETING 1 which exceed the normal 2,500 square feet of which is 2 the typical lot in Bayonne. The proposed lots are 3 both in excess of 2,700 square feet. However, what 4 happened, Bayonne increased the size of, the minimum 5 size of the lots, and that's one reason why we need a 6 variance in Bayonne. I have what I'm -- we're 7 seeking is approval of this Board this evening 8 subject to approval by the City of Bayonne for the 9 one variance, the bulk variance that we need. 10 I have the applicant here, who is a builder 11 who works -- has been a builder for over seven years 12 in the City of Bayonne, and I have his architect 13 here, if there are any questions that the Board 14 Members will have. 15 Did you want them to testify, is that the 16 normal, or is my presentation satisfactory? 17 MR. GLATMAN: It's up to the Board, if 18 the Board wants additional information. 19 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: What is the 20 cross street? 21 MR. ROSE: The cross street, 47th 22 Street. We would be the northeast corner -- 23 southeast. Southeast. Just moved. Southeast. 24 That's right. Southeast. 25 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Mr. Chairman, 33 MONTHLY MEETING 1 if I might say, is there any plans that you might 2 have to show the Board? 3 MR. ROSE: Of the actual -- 4 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Exactly where 5 it is, so they would know. 6 MR. ROSE: Sure. I believe I, I have 7 a proposed subdivision map. 8 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Commissioner, 9 this was submitted to the Review Committee last week. 10 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Hold on. 11 Steve? 12 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, Mr. Rose and 13 the applicants had -- there's an error on my part. 14 It was a subdivision and a site plan. The Site Plan 15 Review Committee had reviewed the application and 16 deemed it to be complete. There is some confusion 17 because a set of checks were submitted for one and 18 not the second, but it was essentially a joint 19 application. The public notice requirements reflect 20 the subdivision and the site plan application, so, 21 and the Agendas which are out this evening reflected 22 the subdivision and site plan, not just the 23 subdivision. We do have -- the Site Plan Committee 24 did review the full set of plans with the site plans 25 on it, with the houses, the house as proposed, and if 34 MONTHLY MEETING 1 the applicant doesn't have a copy, I'll be happy to 2 furnish it. 3 MR. ROSE: I have a copy of the 4 subdivision map. 5 MR. MARKS: But we have the site 6 plan -- 7 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Site plan. 8 MR. MARKS: -- which was furnished. 9 MR. ROSE: Application? 10 MR. MARKS: Site plan application. 11 MR. ROSE: I do have one. I don't 12 have -- 13 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Do you have the -- 14 MR. ROSE: I have the building plans 15 and I have the subdivision map. 16 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Do you have architect 17 or engineer to testify? 18 MR. ROSE: Yes. I have him here, yes. 19 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: So why don't you let 20 him testify and give the brief information regarding 21 the site plan. 22 MR. ROSE: Should I qualify him? 23 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Yeah. 24 You can swear him in first, Arthur. 25 ANDREW CIOK, having been first duly sworn according 35 MONTHLY MEETING 1 to law, testified as follows: 2 MR. GLATMAN: Would you give your name 3 and spell it? 4 MR. CIOK: Name is Andrew Ciok, 5 C-I-O-K, Registered Architect in the State of New 6 Jersey, licensed since 1983 and am presently 7 practicing with the firm of Architecture Plus located 8 in Raritan, New Jersey. 9 MR. ROSE: Have you testified before 10 other planning boards or zoning boards? 11 MR. CIOK: Many planning boards and 12 zoning boards in the State of New Jersey. 13 MR. ROSE: I request that he be 14 admitted to testify as an expert. 15 MR. GLATMAN: Is the Board satisfied? 16 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Yes. 17 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Okay. 18 MR. GLATMAN: All right. 19 MR. ROSE: Are you the architect who 20 drew the plans? 21 MR. CIOK: Yes. 22 MR. ROSE: Would you describe what the 23 proposed use is, all the proposed plans? 24 MR. CIOK: Yes. 25 My client is enlisted me to prepare plans for 36 MONTHLY MEETING 1 a one-family house that will be constructed on this 2 site. The property is, as Steve has mentioned, Mr. 3 Rose mentioned, 25 by 113 feet deep. The footprint 4 of the house is 21 by 55 feet. It will be a 5 one-family house. The ground floor will be parking 6 and utility and rec room. First floor will be 7 livingroom, dining room, kitchen and three bedrooms 8 on the first floor. The access to the garage will be 9 from 47th Street. A curb-cut that will be cut on 10 47th Street, curb-cut will be located approximately 11 40 feet to the easterly side of Kennedy Boulevard. 12 The setbacks from Kennedy Boulevard meet the 13 requirements for the City of Bayonne and basically 14 will line up with the existing houses that are to the 15 southerly side of this property and meets all the 16 front and side yard setbacks for the City of Bayonne. 17 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Excuse me. 18 Have you been before the Bayonne Planning Board for 19 this application? 20 MR. ROSE: No. We did file -- Bayonne 21 is way backed up and we're waiting to get a date, so 22 we're requesting subject to Bayonne's approval. 23 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Okay. 24 MR. GLATMAN: We've done that many 25 times before, given a condition of an approval 37 MONTHLY MEETING 1 pending local approval, so that's not a problem. 2 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Commissioner 3 Demetrio, do you have any comment? 4 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Bayonne has 5 not given you a set date yet for the hearing? 6 MR. ROSE: No. Between -- I wouldn't 7 be surprised if we get April, they're so backed -- we 8 may ask for a Special Meeting. 9 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: The only 10 comment I have is that the site plan shows the 11 driveway and the side street. There's no driveway 12 cuts for Kennedy Boulevard. That's a good thing. 13 MR. ROSE: That's right. 14 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: The only 15 thing I don't know is the condition of the sidewalk 16 and the curb there. The applicant, if it's bad, 17 should upgrade it. 18 MR. CIOK: The sidewalk and curb cuts 19 on Kennedy Boulevard were done two or three years 20 ago. They're in pretty good shape. I've looked at 21 them already. They're in fine condition right now. 22 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Okay. 23 MR. CIOK: They were done with that -- 24 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Right. 25 That was the JFK -- 38 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. CIOK: -- Boulevard upgrading a 2 couple years back. 3 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: -- project, 4 right? 5 MR. CIOK: Sidewalks on 47th Street 6 will be re -- 7 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Those are the 8 only concerns I had. 9 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Any other 10 Commissioner have a question or comment? 11 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: I'll make a 12 motion to accept SD-106-04 with the exception that 13 Bayonne grants the -- 14 MR. ROSE: Yes. Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Any problems 16 with this? Do you have any problems? 17 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: No. 18 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I second 19 it. 20 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Do I have a second? 21 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I got it 22 right here. 23 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Steve? 24 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a motion 25 introduced by Commissioner Choffo and seconded by 39 MONTHLY MEETING 1 Commissioner Fitzgibbons: Commissioner Avagliano? 2 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I vote aye, 3 provided Bayonne Planning Board approves this 4 condition. 5 MR. ROSE: Thank you. 6 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 7 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I vote aye, 8 provided that Bayonne approves the application as 9 well. 10 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 11 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 12 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Arencibia? 13 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 14 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Liggio? 15 COMMISSIONER LIGGIO: Aye. 16 MR. MARKS: Chairman Mehta? 17 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Aye. 18 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 19 passes. 20 MR. ROSE: Thank you. 21 MR. CIOK: Thank you. 22 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Next application, 23 SD-107-04, Roseland/Port Imperial, LLC, Port Imperial 24 Boulevard, West New York, New Jersey. 25 MR. DALY: Yes. 40 MONTHLY MEETING 1 Good evening. Joseph T. Daly appearing on 2 behalf of the applicant. 3 I have with me Mr. Joseph Gurkovich, who's 4 Vice President in charge of Land Development and a 5 Licensed Planner. He has been before you before and 6 testified. He's got to give you an overview on the 7 plans as to where the project is in West New York. 8 Before he starts, we do have approval from the West 9 New York Planning Board for this subdivision. 10 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: That's good. 11 Will you swear him in? 12 JOSEPH GURKOVICH, having been first duly sworn 13 according to law, testified as follows: 14 MR. GLATMAN: Would you please spell 15 your name for the reporter? 16 MR. GURKOVICH: Joseph Gurkovich, 17 G-U-R-K-O-V-I-C-H. 18 MR. DALY: Mr. Gurkovich, can you tell 19 the Board the plans that you are showing them here, 20 what they are? 21 MR. GURKOVICH: Sure. 22 This plan is not part of the set that you 23 received. 24 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Excuse me. Will you 25 qualify him? 41 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. DALY: What license do you hold? 2 MR. GURKOVICH: I have a Professional 3 Planners License in New Jersey, I have a Bachelor of 4 Science in Urban Planning and a Masters in City and 5 Regional Planning, both from Rutgers. 6 MR. DALY: Your position with the 7 applicant? 8 MR. GURKOVICH: I am the Project 9 Manager for the Port Imperial project. 10 MR. DALY: I would move that his 11 qualifications be accepted by the Board. He has been 12 previously qualified before this Board, I believe a 13 month ago. 14 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Yes. 15 MR. GURKOVICH: Thank you. 16 MR. DALY: Thank you. 17 MR. GURKOVICH: This drawing is not 18 part of your subdivision set, but what this shows is 19 the key plan for all the Port Imperial projects for 20 all of Weehawken and West New York. 21 A year ago or two years ago you approved the 22 River Walk subdivision and site plan applications, 23 which are the four buildings at the center of this 24 property. Just to the north of that, to the right 25 side of the drawing is Lot 7, which is what is before 42 MONTHLY MEETING 1 you tonight. We are subdividing Lot 7, which is 9.98 2 acres, into four lots varying in size from two acres 3 to 2.7 acres. 4 MR. DALY: Is that vacant land, Mr. 5 Gurkovich? 6 MR. GURKOVICH: It's actually vacant 7 land with the exception of the Avenue of Port 8 Imperial, which was built as part of the subdivision 9 and site plan approval of the River Walk site. 10 I went over those drawings with Mr. Jasek, I 11 believe two months ago, to explain to him how we 12 effectuated those improvements. 13 MR. DALY: And is the Avenue at Port 14 Imperial a private road? 15 MR. GURKOVICH: Yes, it is. 16 MR. DALY: Okay. Can you tell the 17 Board how you're going to dispose of the surface 18 water from this site? 19 MR. GURKOVICH: The drawings that I 20 explained to Mr. Jasek, all the drainage within the 21 road goes to pipes that will be discharged eastward 22 to the river, all in accordance with a waterfront 23 development permit at the DEP. 24 MR. DALY: I have nothing further, 25 unless the Board has some questions. 43 MONTHLY MEETING 1 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: This is just a 2 subdivision approval, right? 3 MR. GURKOVICH: Yes. 4 MR. DALY: Yes. 5 MR. GURKOVICH: We will come in with 6 site plans at a future date. 7 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Commissioner 8 Demetrio, do you have any comment? 9 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: No. I don't 10 have any. 11 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Do I have a motion? 12 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: I'll make a 13 motion to approve. 14 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I'll second 15 the motion. 16 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a motion 17 made by Commissioner Holloway and seconded by 18 Commissioner Bettinger: Commissioner Avagliano? 19 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I vote aye. 20 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Choffo? 21 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Aye. 22 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Fitzgibbons? 23 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 24 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Arencibia? 25 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 44 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Liggio? 2 COMMISSIONER LIGGIO: Aye. 3 MR. MARKS: Chairman Mehta? 4 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Aye. 5 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman -- 6 MR. DALY: Thank you, very much. 7 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Good luck. 8 MR. GURKOVICH: Thank you. 9 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Next application, 10 SP-109-04, Luis and Ysabel Sebastiani, 7633 Kennedy 11 Boulevard, North Bergen, New Jersey. 12 MR. IZQUIERDO: Good evening again. 13 My name is Jose Izquierdo. I'm counsel and architect 14 for the beauty salon. 15 This property is located at 7633 Kennedy 16 Boulevard in the Township of North Bergen. This 17 Board gains jurisdiction of this application because 18 it is a change of use on a county road. 19 What the applicant is intending to do, and 20 has received all municipal approvals, is to take the 21 ground floor of a two-family house and convert it 22 into an owner occupied beauty salon. 23 This is a two-family house located on a 34 24 feet, 10 inch property by 100 on the western side of 25 Kennedy Boulevard between 76 and 78th Street. The 45 MONTHLY MEETING 1 owner lives on the second floor. The owner also 2 wishes to take the ground floor of this property and 3 turn it into a beauty salon. There was an issue that 4 the County raised as to Planning Board approval. 5 This did not need a Township of North Bergen Planning 6 Board approval because this property is located in 7 the C-1A zone and a business is allowed to be 8 occupied on the ground floor of an owner occupied 9 dwelling. The issues for consideration before this 10 Board are basically the curb cut on Kennedy 11 Boulevard, that will remain as it is, which is 12 presently nine feet, seven inches, which conforms. 13 The applicant has been requested by the County 14 Engineer to construct new sidewalks along Kennedy 15 Boulevard, and a revised site plan was issued by my 16 office on January the 4th, 2005. The applicant will 17 have a new sidewalk on Kennedy Boulevard. 18 Additionally, the County required my office to 19 install new shade trees at least 3.5 inches diameter 20 or caliber. We're actually planting a 14 foot high 21 pear tree, which is six inches in caliber which 22 exceeds County standards. Additionally, there is a 23 condition set by the County Engineer by the Division 24 of Planning that the rear parking shall be for 25 employees only. The revised site plan that was 46 MONTHLY MEETING 1 issued by my office shows a front ramp that was going 2 to be constructed in the front of the building in 3 order to allow the beauty salon to be accessible for 4 people with disabilities, according to the American 5 with Disabilities Federal Act. That ramp is going to 6 be eliminated, and I would like to make it a 7 condition so that if this Board grants favorably on 8 my client's application, that my client wishes to 9 have a small elevator, a small wheelchair lift in the 10 back of the building. That will maintain the front 11 of the building in its existing condition, will not 12 affect the extent of the zone and, additionally to 13 that, there's no exterior construction. It's just 14 that my client wishes to take this two-family home 15 and turn it into a beauty salon for his wife to use 16 and they will live on the second floor. 17 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Commissioner 18 Demetrio, any comments? 19 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: I think the 20 architect has explained sufficiently all of the 21 recommendations that the Review Committee made to 22 them. 23 I would only add that for the employee 24 parking restriction, that some signs would be posted 25 to alert -- 47 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. IZQUIERDO: The rear parking shall 2 be employees only. That shall be a condition if this 3 Board decides to look favorably upon our request. 4 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Just some 5 signs maybe need to be posted for that. 6 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Yes, Steve. 7 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the Site 8 Plan Committee reviewed the application with the ramp 9 in front and I would just ask the applicants to 10 submit a new site plan -- 11 MR. IZQUIERDO: Absolutely. 12 MR. MARKS: -- showing the elevator in 13 the back for our records. 14 MR. IZQUIERDO: Absolutely. 15 It has to be submitted to the Township of 16 North Bergen. The Building Department has requested 17 that we file some as-built revisions on that, so I 18 will copy the Board on that. 19 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Any other 20 Commissioner have a question or comment? 21 COMMISSIONER LIGGIO: No. 22 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Do I have a motion? 23 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I'll make a 24 motion to accept application SP-109-04. 25 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I'll second. 48 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a motion 2 made by Commissioner Bettinger and seconded by 3 Commissioner Avagliano: Commissioner Choffo? 4 COMMISSIONER CHOFFO: Aye. 5 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Fitzgibbons? 6 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 7 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Holloway? 8 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Aye. 9 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Arencibia? 10 COMMISSIONER ARENCIBIA: Aye. 11 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Liggio? 12 COMMISSIONER LIGGIO: Aye. 13 MR. MARKS: And Chairman Mehta? 14 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Aye. 15 MR. IZQUIERDO: Thank you, very much. 16 Good evening. 17 MR. GLATMAN: I just have a question. 18 Were there any members of the public who 19 wanted to speak on this application? 20 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Steve, the next 21 applicant is here or we are to wait? 22 MR. MARKS: Vornado, the attorney for 23 Vornado -- is the attorney here for Vornado? 24 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No, sir. He's 25 not here yet. 49 MONTHLY MEETING 1 I was going to ask your recommendation, sir, 2 on how we should do it? Is it possible to let the 3 next applicant go before us? 4 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Yeah. You will wait 5 until the end of it, then you will be called last. 6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: To the end, or 7 is it possible to just go one each, or I have to wait 8 definitely until the end? I see that, there looks 9 like there's a contentious application. 10 MR. GLATMAN: They're waiting for the 11 attorney. The Board can recall them when the 12 attorney gets here, depends upon our progress. 13 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Wait your 14 turn. 15 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Okay. Thank 16 you, very much. 17 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Next application, 18 SP-112-04, Laundry Fresh of North Bergen, 6113-6115 19 Kennedy Boulevard, North Bergen. 20 MR. GLATMAN: First, is the applicant 21 here? 22 MR. IZQUIERDO: Yes. The applicant -- 23 I'm the attorney for the application. The traffic 24 expert, the architect and the applicant is here. I 25 have also met with the attorney for the opposition. 50 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. GLATMAN: Okay. Again, would you 2 identify yourself and your witnesses for the record? 3 MR. IZQUIERDO: Yes. We have a full 4 house tonight, sir. 5 Good evening. My name is Jose Izquierdo. 6 I'm the attorney for Laundry Fresh of North Bergen. 7 This Board gains jurisdiction of this 8 application because, again, this is a change of use 9 located on a county road. The previous use of this 10 property was a meat warehouse and storage provision 11 place. 12 By way of background, my client entered into 13 a contract for purchase of real estate on January 14 22nd of the year 2004. There was a grant issued by 15 the County of Hudson for renovation of the front 16 elevation of the building on February 17, 2004. 17 There was a hearing held by the North Bergen Zoning 18 Board of Adjustment to grant a use variance on this 19 property on March 16th, 2004. On May the 5th, 2004 20 the Zoning Board of Adjustment of the Township of 21 North Bergen granted approval to Joe Lorenzo, who was 22 the owner of that property at that time, to construct 23 a laundromat consisting of 33 coin operated washers 24 and 34 dryers. An application was submitted to the 25 Hudson County Planning Board on September 27th, 51 MONTHLY MEETING 1 2004. A construction permit was issued by the 2 Township of North Bergen on September 29th of 2004. 3 Those permits were for electrical, fire in the 4 building. There was a Certificate of Occupancy 5 issued by the Township of North Bergen on November 6 24th, 2004 to continue the use of the premise as the 7 previous use. There were parking plans submitted to 8 the County on December 9, 2004. The architect's 9 plans, revised, were issued on December 9, 2004. The 10 Hudson County Planning Board deemed our application 11 incomplete on December the 10th, 2004. There was a 12 letter issued by my office on December 14th, 2004 13 confirming the hearing date and there were revisions 14 issued to the Board revising our site plan. 15 In my opinion as an attorney, the issues 16 before this Board are site plan issues. This is an 17 existing building that was -- there's an interior 18 renovation, to convert it from the previous meat 19 warehouse to a laundromat, but there is a parking lot 20 on the southern end of the property. There was a 21 letter issued by the Hudson County Planning Board 22 asking the applicant to revise its circulation plan 23 so that no vehicles would exit backwards or would 24 back out on to Kennedy Boulevard. There is a revised 25 circulation plan that was drawn by our architect and 52 MONTHLY MEETING 1 was reviewed by our Traffic Engineer, Mr. Joe 2 Staigar, and that is the drawing that is on 3 consideration before this Board. 4 As a way of record, I wish to submit all the 5 approvals that we received to the Board Secretary, a 6 copy of them that are certified. 7 MR. MARKS: Thank you. 8 MR. GLATMAN: We'll mark those as 9 A-1. 10 MR. IZQUIERDO: Exhibit-1. 11 My first witness would be Mr. Robert Bodner. 12 He's the responsible member of Laundry Fresh of North 13 Bergen. It's a Limited Liability Company allowed to 14 do business in the State of New Jersey. 15 ROBERT BODNER, having been first duly sworn according 16 to law, testified as follows: 17 MR. GLATMAN: Would you spell your 18 name for the court reporter? 19 MR. BODNER: I'll do the best I can. 20 I have the flu. I'm sorry. 21 B, as in boy, O-D, as in David, N, as in 22 Nancy, E-R. Robert. 23 May I proceed? 24 MR. GLATMAN: Sure. 25 MR. IZQUIERDO: Mr. Bodner, what is 53 MONTHLY MEETING 1 your relationship to Laundry Fresh of North Bergen, 2 LLC? 3 MR. BODNER: I'm the owner of the 4 property, the proposed laundromat. 5 MR. IZQUIERDO: Will you be operating 6 this laundromat, personally? 7 MR. BODNER: Yes, I will. 8 MR. IZQUIERDO: There were some issues 9 with the County of Hudson when we submitted our 10 original application on September the 27th and the 11 County notified you of a hearing date. 12 Can you explain to me the sequence of events 13 that made our application be dismissed without 14 prejudice by the County and then we had to 15 re-submit? 16 MR. BODNER: Yes. 17 First of all, I just wanted to say that, I 18 wanted to apologize to the Board, and also to the 19 opposition, for not coming out prior to this. People 20 who know me -- I have been in business for some 21 time. I have been in the laundry business for 10 22 years, and I would never show any disrespect to the 23 Board, ignore anything. It's not how I operate 24 personally or professionally. We weren't made aware 25 that this happened. I was not notified. I did not 54 MONTHLY MEETING 1 receive any kind of registered letter, did not 2 receive any kind of phone calls. I received 3 something on my cell phone asking for Jose, and it 4 happened to be the day before a meeting, and that was 5 after, I believe the second time, and I tried to 6 contact Jose Izquierdo and he was out of town. We 7 attempted to contact the County to say that there's a 8 misunderstanding. 9 Part of the confusion might be, there's 10 separate construction going on immediately adjacent 11 to our site. I don't know if anything was brought 12 there. Certainly, there was nothing brought to us. 13 It doesn't serve us to ignore anything or not do 14 anything. We've incurred tremendous financial 15 hardship to not doing anything, and out of respect to 16 the Board, we've not done anything, we've stopped all 17 work, so I just wanted to elaborate on that. Please 18 accept my apologies, and I just apologize for my 19 voice, I have the flu. 20 MR. IZQUIERDO: So as a result of this 21 confusion, was a stop order issued by the Township of 22 North Bergen, Building Department advising you that 23 you should stop all construction work on this job? 24 MR. BODNER: Yes. 25 MR. IZQUIERDO: Did you stop work? 55 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. BODNER: Absolutely. 2 MR. IZQUIERDO: Have you continued 3 work since then? 4 MR. BODNER: No, I have not. 5 MR. IZQUIERDO: The only thing that 6 you have done is secure the roof, which I personally 7 advised you to secure the roof so that the entire 8 building would not be damaged; is that correct? 9 MR. BODNER: Yes, it is. 10 MR. IZQUIERDO: Okay. What are going 11 to be your responsibilities when you're operating 12 this laundromat? 13 First explain to me, during the construction 14 phase, what are your responsibilities, so that to 15 establish credibility with this Board, if they decide 16 to set any conditions upon any decision that they 17 take, and also during the administrative phase? 18 MR. BODNER: This particular 19 laundromat in the development, it's my sole 20 responsibility to work, to make sure that everything 21 is constructed to all local, state and federal 22 codes. I have a track record, have been in the 23 business for 10 years, done a number -- built a 24 number of stores and so I have some familiarity about 25 how to build out a laundromat, and that is my 56 MONTHLY MEETING 1 responsibility during the construction phase. 2 MR. IZQUIERDO: When you were looking 3 for properties in this area, were you able to find 4 any adjacent piece of property to your lot, which I 5 will refer as Block 204, Lot 6.62 and 6.63? Did you 6 find any adjacent piece of land for sale? 7 MR. BODNER: No. 8 MR. IZQUIERDO: Why is that so? 9 MR. BODNER: It wasn't available. 10 We had attempted to see if we could purchase 11 property to the side. It was not made available to 12 us. We had our -- we tried to enter into a contract 13 and it did not work. Currently, there's an office 14 building being built there now, a new office 15 building. 16 MR. IZQUIERDO: For an attorney, which 17 is for Alonso & Navarrete, which is the attorney's 18 building? 19 MR. BODNER: That's correct. 20 MR. IZQUIERDO: What made you come 21 into North Bergen to Kennedy Boulevard? Did you do 22 any study of demographics or something? How many 23 laundromats are you building in this area? 24 Let me take the questions one by one. 25 How many laundromats are you currently 57 MONTHLY MEETING 1 building at the moment? 2 MR. BODNER: One store here in Hudson 3 County. 4 MR. IZQUIERDO: Okay. Did you do any 5 study of demographics, and what made you come into 6 Hudson County into North Bergen? 7 MR. BODNER: I did extensive research 8 on demographics. What we found is that it's a 9 wonderful area, great, hard-working people, and we 10 have a reputation of doing a superior facility in the 11 past, when we build stores. We won a national award 12 from Fleet on community service and we cater to 13 families and try to make it a very safe and a very 14 friendly place, fully attended, fully secured with 15 cameras, and from a business perspective, it was a 16 very light population density and made it 17 approachable, for people to walk to the site, which 18 is always preferential for a laundromat, and even 19 though to the north and south of us there are larger 20 laundromats, and with a lot of parking, we felt 21 strongly that the site would be able to be supported 22 by a significant walk-up in the immediate area. 23 MR. IZQUIERDO: What will be your 24 hours of operation? 25 MR. BODNER: The hours of operation, I 58 MONTHLY MEETING 1 don't remember exactly. It was on the resolution. I 2 believe it was from eight to 11 or seven to 11, 3 something. I really don't remember the exact. 4 That's approximately, that's what it is. When we 5 close it down, last wash would be 10:00 o'clock. 6 MR. IZQUIERDO: So when North Bergen 7 Zoning Board of Adjustments gave you an approval, 8 which was memorialized on May the 5th, do you intend 9 to abide by every single condition of the that 10 Board? 11 MR. BODNER: Absolutely. 12 MR. IZQUIERDO: And that resolution 13 implied that you are only going to have 34 washers 14 and 33 dryers? 15 MR. BODNER: Absolutely. It's the 16 other way around. 33 and 34. 17 MR. IZQUIERDO: Sorry. Thanks for 18 correcting me. 19 So if you ever intend to change that number, 20 you would understand that you would have to come back 21 before both boards? 22 MR. BODNER: Yes, I do. 23 MR. IZQUIERDO: Very well. 24 I have nothing further. 25 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Any commissioner have 59 MONTHLY MEETING 1 any question? 2 COMMISSIONER LIGGIO: Yeah, I'd like 3 to ask a question. 4 You said that there's, you expect a large 5 walk-in clientele, large walk-in business, most 6 people will be walking and not using their cars. 7 MR. BODNER: A significant amount, 8 yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER LIGGIO: Significant. 10 You're familiar with that stretch of Kennedy 11 Boulevard, I assume, now that you've been, you know, 12 building there. 13 MR. BODNER: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER LIGGIO: You know it's 15 very busy? 16 MR. BODNER: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER LIGGIO: And it's a very 18 dangerous spot, and I'm afraid -- I'm from North 19 Bergen, by the way, in case you don't know me. I'm 20 afraid there's going to be a lot of double parking in 21 that area because of the laundromat. 22 Now, we had a problem right up the block with 23 the post office, and we were able to handle that 24 somewhat by granting a couple of parking spaces for 25 the post office, for people to park so they wouldn't 60 MONTHLY MEETING 1 double park, because double parking was a tremendous 2 nuisance in the area. 3 We also had a problem with the tire -- Kelly 4 Tires, and they have a big loading zone there, so it 5 keeps the trucks, you know, off the -- from blocking 6 the road, so we've basically eliminated much of the 7 problems, the traffic problems, whereby addressing 8 those two concerns. 9 Now you're coming along and you want to open 10 this laundromat, and all I see is double parking 11 going to go on in front of this place. I would 12 assume the County's not going to be responsible for 13 enforcing the traffic conditions. It's going to be 14 North Bergen Police Department, and I think we're 15 going to be putting a strain on the North Bergen 16 Police Department and I kind of doubt that they're 17 going to be too happy with, you know, all the 18 complaints that are going to be going on, so I'm 19 concerned with that aspect of it. 20 You made a change to your parking lot, and I 21 guess you're going to go into that a little bit 22 later, and I'll just reserve some comments about that 23 later, but I'm still concerned about double parking 24 that might go on there. 25 MR. BODNER: I share, you know, any 61 MONTHLY MEETING 1 concerns that have to do with anybody's safety, 2 whether they're a customer or not. All I could say 3 is that our intent is to operate as, like the law 4 says we do, we're allowed to do and operate a safe 5 place. I can't control actions, how other people do. 6 The only thing I will say, prior to this this 7 was the Thumann's Provision Delivery, also with a 8 retail component where people walk up and buy hot 9 dogs, buns and everything else, so before you had 10 large trucks backing out. Now we're just talking 11 about a few cars turning around and not backing out, 12 but head in and then head out, so if this -- it's a 13 significant improvement to what was there before. 14 COMMISSIONER LIGGIO: I don't think 15 the number of trucks, you know, going in would 16 compare to the number of cars that are going to be 17 coming in and out each day. I mean, trucks, maybe 18 one a day. Cars, you're going to have 50, 60 a day, 19 maybe more. Significant difference. 20 MR. BODNER: I don't think the size 21 will support that kind of -- 22 COMMISSIONER LIGGIO: No. I don't 23 either. I don't think the area would support that 24 many cars in there. I think you should have more 25 parking, to be honest. 62 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. BODNER: I think I can understand 2 your valid concern. I just don't, I don't see that 3 being as much of an issue, because there's, there are 4 approximately 34,000 households within a half mile, I 5 think it's a half mile radius -- 6 MR. IZQUIERDO: One mile. 7 MR. BODNER: -- one mile radius of 8 there. People will walk a half mile to go to a 9 laundromat. 10 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: With bags of 11 laundry? 12 MR. BODNER: What's that? 13 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: With bags of 14 laundry? 15 MR. BODNER: Well, carts. Not all the 16 time. In good weather. It's not that big of a 17 store. There's much larger stores to the north and 18 south of us. 19 MR. IZQUIERDO: Mr. Bodner, you 20 indicated that the previous occupancy, which was 21 Thumann's Provision, owned by Joe Lorenzo, had a 22 loading zone; is that correct? 23 MR. BODNER: That's correct. 24 MR. IZQUIERDO: What's going to happen 25 to that loading zone now? 63 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. BODNER: There is no loading 2 zone. It will be additionally parking. 3 MR. IZQUIERDO: So you're giving one 4 additional parking to the -- 5 MR. BODNER: Actually, it will be two 6 additional spots. 7 MR. IZQUIERDO: Two additional spots. 8 Explain to the Board why you entered the 9 revisions into the parking lot, to alleviate or to 10 minimize the concern for accidents in such a hard 11 site. 12 MR. BODNER: Only, only for potential 13 safety concerns, so cars wouldn't pull into the 14 parking lot head first, drive in and drive out 15 without backing out on to Kennedy Boulevard. 16 MR. IZQUIERDO: So the site plan, as 17 revised -- explain, in your opinion, since you're 18 going to be administering this center, should this 19 Board be kind enough to grant our request, how is it 20 going to upgrade the parking lot? 21 MR. BODNER: The parking lot people 22 would drive in and they would do a K turn in the back 23 and then they would leave going, driving, driving 24 back out. 25 MR. IZQUIERDO: Very well. 64 MONTHLY MEETING 1 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I have one 2 question. 3 COMMISSIONER LIGGIO: Go ahead. 4 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Is there a 5 school nearby where children have to go across this 6 driveway and come back again, since it's open from 7 7:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m? 8 There's no school nearby? There's no 9 children crossing at all at this driveway? 10 MR. BODNER: No. 11 MR. IZQUIERDO: The site is 12 basically -- you have a Walgreen's, which is located 13 on the southeast corner, there is an auto repair 14 facility on the northeast corner, there is a building 15 that has changed hands numerous times on the 16 southwestern corner. It used to be a medical center 17 and now it's being renovated. I really don't know 18 what the use is. It should be before review by you. 19 Then there's Gardina Pharmacy, which is our neighbor, 20 and then there's the laundromat with the parking lot 21 and the attorney's office that constitutes the 22 corner. That's 62nd and Kennedy Boulevard, West New 23 York on the east and North Bergen, which is within -- 24 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Mr. Chairman, 25 I have a question. 65 MONTHLY MEETING 1 How many spaces do you have for this 2 laundromat? 3 MR. IZQUIERDO: Can I leave that 4 question to the traffic expert, which I am going to 5 have next, if you don't mind? 6 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: You mentioned that 7 you are in the business for more than 10 years, in 8 the laundromat business? 9 MR. BODNER: That's correct. 10 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: How many laundromats 11 you operate currently? 12 MR. BODNER: I don't operate any 13 laundromats right now. I have been -- basically, I 14 worked with another company and am no longer 15 associated with that. It was sold to the investor 16 and I was the consultant to them. Now I'm just 17 opening up my own store. 18 MR. IZQUIERDO: But you have been 19 operating laundromats in the State of New Jersey for 20 how long? 21 MR. BODNER: Since 1994. 22 MR. IZQUIERDO: Very well. 23 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: According to your 24 experience, this size of laundromat requires how much 25 parking? 66 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. BODNER: I'm sorry. How many 2 parking do I think it would accommodate? 3 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: No. No. 4 According to your experience of laundromat 5 business -- 6 MR. BODNER: Yes. 7 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: -- this size of 8 laundromat, how many parking is required? 9 MR. BODNER: You know, parking is sort 10 of like eating at a smorgasbord. You always like to 11 have as much as you can get. There's no hard fast 12 rule. It's related to the population density. When 13 it's bad weather, people don't come to a laundromat. 14 If you have parking, they will come if you have a 15 place for them to park, so to that extent, we would 16 be hurt by less parking lots when the weather's not 17 good, and that's the way it is, so my experience is, 18 I would love to have a number of parking spots, but 19 that's just not reality, so, you know. Five, six 20 lots, between the street and the three that we have 21 in there, that's fine. 22 MR. IZQUIERDO: So if you were able to 23 acquire adjacent land to your property right now to 24 provide additional parking spaces, you would do so? 25 MR. BODNER: Yes, I would. 67 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. IZQUIERDO: But you haven't done 2 so because there's no additional land available? 3 MR. BODNER: That's correct. 4 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Any commissioner have 5 any comment? 6 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I have a 7 question. 8 Cars entering on the Boulevard to the 9 laundromat, would they have to exit on the Boulevard, 10 also? 11 MR. IZQUIERDO: They have to exit -- 12 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: They have to 13 enter and exit on the Boulevard? 14 MR. IZQUIERDO: They will enter the 15 property hood first and they will exit the property 16 hood first on to the Boulevard, so there's not going 17 to be any backing up on to the Boulevard. 18 The site plan has been revised and that's why 19 I want to have our traffic expert -- 20 MR. GLATMAN: Okay. Go ahead. 21 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Question. 22 Cars entering on the Boulevard to the 23 laundromat, do they have to exit on the Boulevard or 24 is there another exit they can use on the street? 25 MR. BODNER: No, there isn't. We're 68 MONTHLY MEETING 1 surrounded by our property. 2 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: They have to 3 come back on the Boulevard? 4 MR. BODNER: Yes. 5 MR. IZQUIERDO: Did you try do come 6 into the agreement with the property next door that 7 has an empty rear yard so that you would be able to 8 meet the Commissioner's -- 9 MR. BODNER: We are pursuing that. 10 MR. IZQUIERDO: But you haven't 11 finalized anything for that? 12 MR. BODNER: No. 13 COMMISSIONER HOLLOWAY: Mr. Chairman, 14 I have a question. 15 How many machines do you have in this 16 building? 17 MR. BODNER: 33 washers, 34 dryers. 18 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: I think it will be 19 better that the Traffic Engineer testify. 20 MR. GLATMAN: Mr. Chairman, if I 21 might, I believe that's counsel from the opposition 22 and I think he should have the opportunity to 23 cross-examine the witness. 24 MR. BIANCIELLA: With all due respect, 25 I'd rather wait until the entire application was 69 MONTHLY MEETING 1 presented, only because there may be questions to 2 both the applicant and his architect. 3 MR. GLATMAN: Is that acceptable to 4 you? 5 MR. IZQUIERDO: Yes. 6 I would just like to ask counsel to indicate 7 who he represents. 8 MR. BIANCIELLA: Sure. 9 My name is Anthony Bianciella. That's B, 10 like boy, I-A-N-C-I-E-L-L-A. I represent two 11 individuals, Aris Diaz and Lawrence Weinstein. 12 MR. IZQUIERDO: Please, who is Mr. 13 Diaz? Does he own a laundromat in the area? 14 MR. BIANCIELLA: He does. It's one 15 block from this location, and he's here tonight to 16 testify before this Board. 17 MR. IZQUIERDO: Who is your other 18 client? Another laundromat owner? 19 MR. BIANCIELLA: Mr. Weinstein is a 20 laundromat owner, to my knowledge, and he's here, if 21 the Board wants to ask. 22 He owns about six or seven laundromats 23 throughout the State of New Jersey as well as other 24 businesses in North Bergen and in Hudson County. 25 MR. IZQUIERDO: With all due respect, 70 MONTHLY MEETING 1 and for edification of the Board, I have a case held 2 by Superior Court of the State of New Jersey, which 3 is Paramus Multiplex Corp. vs. Hartz Mountain 4 Industries. It is quoted as 236, New Jersey 5 Superior, 104, and that court held that the 6 competitor did not have to appear before the 7 municipal agency to challenge a land use application 8 by entity engaged in the same business other than to 9 increase competition. Municipal action would have no 10 impact upon present or prospective property rights or 11 competitive. Additionally, that court -- that case 12 was distinguished in a case decided recently, 13 February 25th, 2004, which is cited as a 367, New 14 Jersey Superior, 161, and that's DiPetro vs. Township 15 of Wayne Planning Board. That case distinguishes the 16 previous -- it indicates that the competitor had 17 standing only to challenge the Board's interpretation 18 of the zoning ordinance, so with all due respect to 19 the Board Members, if the objectors are here to 20 object to what the Township of North Bergen Zoning 21 Board of Adjustment held in applying a use variance, 22 meaning that both the trial judge, the reviewing 23 court and this Board should give full -- to a local 24 zoning board in interpreting what use is applicable 25 to a specific zone. 71 MONTHLY MEETING 1 Other than that, I would object to every 2 comment that my objector makes. 3 MR. GLATMAN: Do you want to respond, 4 counsel? 5 BIANCIELLA: Sure. I'll just respond 6 briefly. 7 Aris Diaz is also a resident of the town, and 8 as a town member, clearly, he has standards to 9 challenge anything that goes on in the town. As far 10 as standing on, there are other courts that have 11 taken the other extreme and say, you know what, any 12 business that is local, they should be heard from, 13 because the boards will be the ones making the 14 decisions. Clearly, your decision shouldn't be to 15 exclude people that live in the town. I mean, the 16 Board can see here that there are a lot of other 17 people here that are here to testify as well, but the 18 Board shouldn't exclude testimony simply because 19 people own a like business in the particular town. 20 MR. GLATMAN: Are there any other 21 members of the public who want to ask questions of 22 the witness who just testified? 23 MR. TOLEDO: Yes. 24 MR. GLATMAN: Why don't you come up, 25 identify yourself, and then ask the questions. 72 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. TOLEDO: Good evening, Members of 2 the Board. My name is Abel Toledo. A-B-E-L, 3 T-O-L-E-D-O. 4 I been a resident of North Bergen, New Jersey 5 for about, a little over five years. My main concern 6 here -- 7 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: One minute. 8 MR. GLATMAN: Remember, this is to 9 question the witness as opposed to stating your 10 situation. 11 MR. TOLEDO: Right. 12 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Arthur, one second. 13 The public has a position or a concern about 14 this particular case, I will suggest that if, instead 15 of repeating the same concern, they appoint somebody, 16 one individual or two individuals as their 17 spokesperson, and they can -- you can say, express 18 their concern through that particular person rather 19 than repeating the thing again and again, and for 20 time purposes, as per the meeting, we will not hear 21 the case or continue the case more than 10 o'clock, 22 10:00 p.m. 23 Right, Steve? 24 MR. IZQUIERDO: I would like to have 25 the address of Mr. Toledo, for the record, please. 73 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. TOLEDO: Sure. It's 8810 Third 2 Avenue, North Bergen, New Jersey. I also work in the 3 same area. 4 MR. IZQUIERDO: May I reserve the 5 right to question the neighbor? 6 MR. GLATMAN: Sure. 7 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Arthur, will you -- 8 MR. IZQUIERDO: Because he lives 9 significantly far from the property. I would like to 10 know how his property rights are affected. 11 ABEL TOLEDO, having been first duly sworn according 12 to law, testified as follows: 13 MR. GLATMAN: Would you like to ask 14 questions of the applicant? 15 MR. TOLEDO: Sure. 16 What I see in the blueprint, I see there's 17 barely no parking space. 18 MR. IZQUIERDO: We haven't finished 19 our case. I'd like to present our entire case before 20 it's open up to public. 21 MR. GLATMAN: This may be better for 22 the parking expert, the traffic expert. 23 MR. TOLEDO: Well, then, the other 24 condition that I have, I do have a child. There's a 25 school two blocks from the site. It's very, it's 74 MONTHLY MEETING 1 very disturbing to me, the fact that this -- once 2 again, I'm going to touch the same point, the parking 3 space. It's going to create double parking. 4 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Excuse me. 5 Sir, we can't hear you. You're speaking to him and 6 you should be speaking to us. 7 MR. TOLEDO: Okay. It's very 8 concerning to me, the fact that there's a school two 9 blocks from the place. I do have a child and I'm 10 concerned for the safety of the children in that 11 school. Kennedy Boulevard is a very traffic area, 12 very traffic street. It's a main street, and having 13 double parking, especially in weather like tonight, 14 it's very disturbing to have a place that barely has 15 no parking. It's very dangerous, you know, that, 16 that, that street. Having kids going to eat any 17 place, like, about a block from where they're going 18 to have this construction done, and having kids go 19 back and forth, you know, it's very disturbing. I 20 mean, for the safety of the children, it's very, you 21 know, concerning to me what's going to happen and how 22 this is going to affect us. I mean, going back and 23 forth, bringing my son to school. 24 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: What type of 25 a school is it? It's a grammar school, 75 MONTHLY MEETING 1 kindergarten? Is it for the younger children? 2 MR. TOLEDO: Yes, ma'am. 3 MR. IZQUIERDO: Where is the school 4 located? 5 MR. TOLEDO: It's on 63rd Street. 6 MR. IZQUIERDO: So you live on Third 7 Avenue but you take your son to 63rd Street in West 8 New York? 9 MR. TOLEDO: Well, I work around where 10 I live, so I -- that's the reason that I live there. 11 MR. IZQUIERDO: What is your 12 relationship, sir, to Mr. Aris Diaz, the owner of the 13 laundromat, which is our competitor right across the 14 street? 15 MR. TOLEDO: Absolutely nothing. 16 MR. IZQUIERDO: You've never met him 17 before? 18 MR. TOLEDO: No. 19 MR. IZQUIERDO: You have never met 20 this man before in your life? 21 MR. TOLEDO: No, I haven't. 22 MR. IZQUIERDO: Okay. Very well. 23 I would like to continue with my traffic 24 expert, if the Board so chooses. 25 MR. GLATMAN: Are there any other 76 MONTHLY MEETING 1 people who have questions? I'm not talking about 2 stating positions. I'm asking, questions for the 3 witness to testify. 4 MR. IZQUIERDO: Of the applicant. 5 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Applicant. 6 MR. GLATMAN: Of the applicant. 7 MR. TOLEDO: Thank you. 8 MR. GLATMAN: Why don't you call your 9 traffic -- 10 MR. IZQUIERDO: I would like to call 11 my second witness, which is Mr. Joseph Staigar from 12 Staigar Engineering. He's our traffic expert. 13 JOSEPH STAIGAR, having been first duly sworn 14 according to law, testified as follows: 15 MR. GLATMAN: Could you spell your 16 name for the court reporter? 17 MR. STAIGAR: Yes. My name is Joseph 18 Staigar. It's S-T-A-I-G-A-R. 19 MR. IZQUIERDO: May I proceed? 20 MR. GLATMAN: Sure. 21 MR. IZQUIERDO: Mr. Staigar, can you 22 explain to the Board your qualifications as both a 23 Traffic Engineer and a Professional Planner in the 24 State of New Jersey? 25 MR. STAIGAR: Yes. I'm the principal 77 MONTHLY MEETING 1 of Staigar Engineering. We're traffic engineering 2 consultants. I'm a Professional Engineer licensed in 3 the State of New Jersey as well as nine other states 4 in the northeast. I'm also a Professional Planner 5 licensed in the State of New Jersey as well. I have 6 well over 20 years of experience since graduating. I 7 have my undergraduate degree in 1976 and I have 8 appeared before this Board in the past. I've 9 appeared throughout Hudson County as well as every 10 other county throughout the State of New Jersey and 11 well over 500 appearances in addition to that, 12 Superior Court in New Jersey, and I also have been an 13 Adjunct Professor of Traffic Engineering at New 14 Jersey Institute of Technology. 15 MR. IZQUIERDO: I move to accept the 16 witness as a qualified expert in the field of Traffic 17 Engineering and Professional Planning. 18 MR. GLATMAN: Is the Board satisfied? 19 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: Does anybody have -- 20 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Yes. 21 CHAIRMAN MEHTA: -- any question?