1 1 HUDSON COUNTY PLANNING BOARD 2 IN RE: ) ) TRANSCRIPT OF 3 MONTHLY MEETING ) PROCEEDINGS: ) 4 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _) Administration Annex 5 567 Pavonia Avenue Freeholders Chambers 6 Jersey City, New Jersey Wednesday, February 16, 2005 7 7:10 p.m. 8 B E F O R E: 9 MICHAEL HOLLOWAY, CHAIRMAN 10 RUSHABH MEHTA, COMMISSIONER 11 MARY E. AVAGLIANO, COMMISSIONER 12 RENEE BETTINGER, COMMISSIONER 13 JEFFREY DUBLIN, COMMISSIONER 14 JUDE FITZGIBBONS, COMMISSIONER 15 BORIVOJ JASEK, COMMISSIONER 16 A L S O P R E S E N T: 17 ARTHUR GLATMAN, ESQ., Board Attorney 18 STEPHEN MARKS, Board Secretary 19 Reported By: 20 MICHELLE GRUENDEL, C.S.R. 21 REPORTING SERVICES ARRANGED THROUGH 22 VERITEXT/NEW JERSEY REPORTING COMPANY, L.L.C. Kabot Battaglia & Hammer Suburban Shorthand 23 Waga and Spinelli Arthur J. Frannicola CSR 25B Vreeland Road 24 Florham Park, New Jersey 07932 Tel: 973-410-4040 Fax: 973-410-1313 25 2 1 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Meeting called to 2 order. 3 Counsel, does this meeting comply with the 4 Open Public Meeting Act? 5 MR. GLATMAN: Yes. This meeting is in 6 compliance with the Sunshine Law. Proper notices 7 have been filed and publicized. 8 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Thank you. 9 Can we all stand and Salute the Flag? 10 (Flag Salute takes place.) 11 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Steve, can you do 12 the roll call, please? 13 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Avagliano? 14 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Here. 15 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 16 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Here. 17 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Choffo, not 18 here. 19 Commissioner Dublin? 20 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Here. 21 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Fitzgibbons? 22 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Here. 23 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Jasek? 24 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Present. 25 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Liggio, not 3 MONTHLY MEETING 1 here. 2 Commissioner Mehta? 3 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: Here. 4 MR. MARKS: Chairman Holloway? 5 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Here. 6 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, we have a 7 quorum. 8 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Thank you. 9 Review and Adoption of the Meeting's Minutes 10 from January 19th, 2005. 11 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I make a 12 motion to accept the minutes as read. 13 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: I will second it. 14 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a motion 15 made by Commissioner Fitzgibbons and seconded by 16 Commissioner Mehta: Commissioner Avagliano? 17 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Aye. 18 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 19 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Aye. 20 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Dublin? 21 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: I abstain. 22 Abstain. 23 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Fitzgibbons? 24 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 25 MR. MARKS: I'm sorry. Commissioner 4 MONTHLY MEETING 1 Jasek? 2 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Aye. 3 MR. MARKS: And Chairman Holloway? 4 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Aye. 5 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 6 passes. 7 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Public Comments, 8 if there's any, on the Agenda's items. 9 Anyone? 10 Steve, you want to -- 11 MR. MARKS: Okay. Mr. Chairman, we're 12 up to letter 6A, memorialization of resolutions 13 approved at last meeting. This is for SP-63-04, 14 Vineland Construction; SP/SD-106-04 for Marek and 15 Suzann Mickiewicz, 1092 to 1094 Kennedy Boulevard, 16 Bayonne; SD-107-04, Roseland/Port Imperial, West New 17 York; SP-109-04, Luis and Ysabel Sebastiani, 7633 18 Kennedy Boulevard, North Bergen; SP-111-04, Vornado 19 Realty for Applebee's Restaurant, 175 Passaic Avenue, 20 Kearny; SD-114-04, Walmart/Vineland Construction 21 Company, Tax Block 284, Kearny; SD-115-04, Liberty 22 Harbor North, Grand Street at Jersey Avenue, Jersey 23 City; and SD-118-04, Newport Associates Development 24 Company for the Northeast Quadrant of Newport in 25 Jersey City. 5 MONTHLY MEETING 1 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Thank you. 2 Do we have a motion? 3 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I'll make a 4 motion to memorialize the resolutions that were just 5 read. 6 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Second. 7 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a motion 8 made by Commissioner Bettinger and seconded by 9 Commissioner Avagliano: Commissioner Dublin? 10 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Aye. 11 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Fitzgibbons? 12 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Aye. 13 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Jasek? 14 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Aye. 15 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Mehta? 16 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: Aye. 17 MR. MARKS: Chairman Holloway? 18 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Aye. 19 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, motion 20 passes. 21 Mr. Chairman, on letter number 6B, 22 applications declared exempt, we have SD-03-05, 23 953-961 Garfield Avenue, Jersey City; SP-04-05, New 24 York SMSA d/b/a Verizon Wireless at 39 Avenue C, 25 Bayonne; SP-07-05, Schubert Jacques, care of Weichert 6 MONTHLY MEETING 1 Realty for 193-195 Orient Avenue, Jersey City; 2 SP-08-05, Schubert Jacques, care of Weichert Realty 3 for 196-200 Orient Avenue, Jersey City; and SP-10-05, 4 Cellular Telephone Company d/b/a AT&T Wireless at 5 801-803 Adams Street, Hoboken; and SD-11-05, Jon P. 6 Campbell Esq. for 281-283 Chapel Avenue, Jersey City. 7 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Motion to 9 accept. 10 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I second 11 it. 12 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a motion 13 made by Commissioner Avagliano and seconded by 14 Commissioner Fitzgibbons: Commissioner Bettinger? 15 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Aye. 16 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Dublin? 17 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Aye. 18 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Jasek? 19 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Aye. 20 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Mehta? 21 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: Aye. 22 MR. MARKS: Chairman Holloway? 23 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Aye. 24 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the motion 25 passes. 7 MONTHLY MEETING 1 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Thank you. 2 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, for 6C, site 3 plans and subdivisions scheduled for hearing, we have 4 SP-112-04, Laundry Fresh of North Bergen, LLC, 5 6113-6115 Kennedy Boulevard, North Bergen. 6 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Is the applicant 7 here? 8 MR. IZQUIERDO: For Laundry Fresh? 9 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Yes. 10 MR. IZQUIERDO: Good evening, Members 11 of -- is this on -- yes. 12 Good evening, Members of the Board. My name 13 is Jose Izquierdo. I'm counsel for Laundry Fresh of 14 North Bergen. 15 Laundry Fresh of North Bergen is a Limited 16 Liability Company established in the State of New 17 Jersey. At the last hearing, on January 19th, 2005, 18 before we adjourned we presented copies of all the 19 approvals that have been submitted, and it is on the 20 transcript. Mr. Steve Marks was kind enough to 21 submit, to submit to my office a copy of the 22 transcript and I have had an opportunity to read that 23 transcript. Our presentation tonight is going to 24 clarify a number of issues of the transcript. 25 This application was approved correctly so by 8 MONTHLY MEETING 1 the Zoning Board of Adjustment at the Township of 2 North Bergen. Jurisdiction was proper at the Zoning 3 Board. There was a use variance that needed to be 4 granted as a laundromat is not an allowed use at the 5 C-1A zone. 6 Additionally, the County of Hudson and the 7 Site Plan Review Committee has had an opportunity to 8 review this plan on several occasions, and the review 9 letter that was issued to my office and to Laundry 10 Fresh, to my client on December the 10th, there were 11 three conditions that were stipulated. The site plan 12 needed to show the striping, the driveway apron had 13 to be narrowed, and there was absolutely no backing 14 out to occur on to John F. Kennedy Boulevard. 15 Subsequently, on January the 12th, 2005, before the 16 January 19th, 2005 hearing, the Site Plan Review 17 Committee of the Hudson County Planning Board issued 18 other directives for the applicant to comply with, 19 county ordinances. First, that the parking lot was 20 going to be for employees only and the County of 21 Hudson was going to be held harmless for any traffic 22 accidents occurring at the site. 23 Recently, on February 10, 2005, after the 24 January 19, 2005 hearing, the Site Plan Review 25 Committee of the Hudson County Planning Board issued 9 MONTHLY MEETING 1 its latest directive. The driveway apron and the 2 curb shall be limited to the driveway area. The 3 parking shall be limited to employees only, to no 4 more than four spaces, and the applicant shall 5 replace the curbs and sidewalks, if necessary. 6 I am stating for the record here that 7 applicant -- that the application of Laundry Fresh of 8 North Bergen is hereby modified and amended for the 9 parking lot that has created so many concerns, safety 10 wise, and rightly so, and it shall be limited to 11 employees only and it will be the applicant's burden 12 to police that matter. 13 Additionally, there were a number of 14 conditions the applicant testified -- the traffic 15 expert and the planner testified there were a number 16 of conditions that were raised, actually, by 17 Commissioner Fitzgibbons, and those conditions were 18 that the parking lot be striped, and in this case 19 have only four spaces for employees and the spaces 20 are not going to be used by the general public, that 21 the driveway apron was going to be narrowed and the 22 turn around, the k-turn that was described by the 23 traffic expert is going to be done only by the 24 employees. 25 Additionally, Commissioner Fitzgibbons, in 10 MONTHLY MEETING 1 order to mitigate the adverse consequences or the 2 negative criteria that is established by the 3 Municipal Land Use Law and SICA, the Four-Step 4 Balancing Test wanted to have a stop sign at the 5 premises on exiting, a speed bump, a stop bar, what 6 was called a white line, a no left turn sign on the 7 premises, a striping plan and prohibited backing out 8 on to Kennedy Boulevard. The application that is 9 going to be presented to you tonight is hereby 10 revised to show those five conditions -- those six 11 conditions. The parking lot shall be for employees 12 only, there shall be a stop sign placed on the 13 parking lot upon exiting the premises, applicant 14 shall place a speed bump, a stop bar, a white line so 15 that cars have to decelerate to -- approaching 16 Kennedy Boulevard. There shall be a no left turn 17 sign on the premises so that applicant doesn't -- so 18 that the employees upon leaving the premises don't 19 have to cross the 20 yellow -- the solid whites line, and there shall be a 21 striping plan, of course, no backing out on to 22 Kennedy Boulevard. 23 Mr. Marks was kind enough, and, actually, Mr. 24 Anthony Bianciella, who's counsel for the opposition, 25 submitted to my office the petition that was signed 11 MONTHLY MEETING 1 by the opposition that you see here. My secretary 2 spent three days going through the list of people 3 that have signed that opposition. The petition reads 4 as follows: Opposition to laundromat located at 5 6113-6117 Kennedy Boulevard, North Bergen. Backing 6 out on to Kennedy Boulevard is a danger to all 7 residences. Please sign below if you support the 8 opposition. I candidly submit to this Board that 9 this opposition is moot, as we're not backing out on 10 to Kennedy Boulevard. Additionally, out of the 11 295 -- 94 persons that signed this petition, 12 credibility of some, who is questioned, as I have 13 people from Florida, I have people from Florham Park, 14 I have people from many, many places. There are only 15 nine within the 200 square feet of the property. 16 There are 285 people that have signed, some with 17 their name first and their last name first and then 18 other places with their last name first and their 19 first name second. I don't have a calligraphy 20 expert, but I see a lot of very common signatures. 21 Additionally, to that document there are a lot of 22 signatures that are not legible. Some of them have 23 no address, some of them are not even on the map. My 24 secretary actually took the entire Township of North 25 Bergen and located each one of these properties. I'm 12 MONTHLY MEETING 1 going to submit this document as a legal -- and let 2 it be called either Exhibit-1 of tonight's hearing or 3 a continuation of the previous exhibits. 4 For the record, everything that is 5 highlighted in yellow, 285 of them, don't live within 6 the 200 square feet, and I find it hard to believe 7 that a residence of Miami, Florida would be affected 8 by the opening of a laundromat on 62nd and Kennedy. 9 I have to be candid before this Board, these 10 documents were submitted to me by counsel for the 11 competition. 12 Upon closing, before we adjourned at the last 13 hearing on January 19th, 2005, counsel for the 14 opposition, whose name is Aris Diaz, and he owns a 15 laundromat at 63rd and Washington Street in the Town 16 of West New York. I have actually met him in the 17 past because he has opposed other laundromats for 18 whom I have had the pleasure of being the architect, 19 so you very well know I'm an architect, but I'm only 20 appearing for the attorney for this application. At 21 that time Mr. Anthony Bianciella, who is counsel for 22 the opposition, proffered to this Board that Funeral 23 Home Management Inc., and he cited it adequately as 24 319 New Jersey Super 200, 725 (A.2d 64), he actually 25 proffered that that case overruled Paramus Multiplex 13 MONTHLY MEETING 1 Corporation versus Hartz Mountain Industries. That 2 case, the later one, Paramus Multiplex, which is 3 cited as 236 New Jersey Super 104, was decided and 4 revised on May 16, 1989. He proffered a later case, 5 Funeral Home Management, which was decided on March 6 10th, 1999. Clearly, a Superior Court case which has 7 a later date would seem to overrule the previous 8 case, but the small difference is that Funeral Home 9 Management is distinguished, Funeral Home Management 10 is distinguished, and I quote directly from the text, 11 and I will submit the entire case to Mr. Glatman, 12 counsel for this Board. We briefly comment on 13 defendant's contention that plaintiff lacks 14 sufficient standing to challenge the variance. The 15 fact is, the Board itself, meaning the Zoning Board 16 for which this Board has to grant difference to the 17 local zoning board because the use of these premises 18 is not for consideration before this Board. The 19 issue was adequately determined and correctly 20 determined by the North Bergen Zoning Board of 21 Adjustment. What is for consideration before this 22 Board are strictly site plan issues that have to do 23 with the safety of the parking lot and the safe 24 egress on to Kennedy Boulevard, and I continue, the 25 fact is, the Board itself found plaintiff to have 14 MONTHLY MEETING 1 sufficient standing to participate in the proceedings 2 before it. We see no basis, then, for asserting a 3 different position in the subsequent judicial 4 proceedings. I proffer to this Board that standing 5 was presented as an issue before the North Bergen 6 Zoning Board of Adjustment and Brian Chewcaskie, 7 attorney for and counsel for the Zoning Board of 8 Adjustment, indicated that the opposition had no 9 standing. I know I have a lot of people here, no 10 backing out on to Kennedy Boulevard, it's now 11 approaching a death trap. It's a moot point. None 12 of these issues are for consideration before this 13 Board. This applicant has been candid enough before 14 this Board to submit, and even though the applicant 15 understands you have placed a limitation on four 16 parking spaces, the applicant knows that he has to go 17 back before the Township of North Bergen Zoning Board 18 and that is a burden that is placed on the 19 applicant. I submit to you that the opposition has 20 no standing and Funeral Home Management is not 21 valid. The case that holds is Paramus Multiplex 22 Corporation. If this is going to be an issue to be 23 decided, I don't want to burden this Board with this 24 issue. As counsel for the opposition has already 25 clearly indicated, that there's an appeal before the 15 MONTHLY MEETING 1 Superior Court, then I submit that no hearings be 2 held here. If he wants to raise that issue, he can 3 raise it before the Superior Court of the State of 4 New Jersey where there is a pending appeal. 5 I would like no interruptions until I finish. 6 I will submit to Mr. Glatman the Funeral Home 7 Management, and that is what I have quoted, I have 8 quoted this case verbatim, and this is from West 9 Law. This is Paramus Multiplex. 10 MR. GLATMAN: We have them. 11 MR. IZQUIERDO: You have them. 12 Additionally, on page 120 of page 159 -- and 13 it was very candidly provided to me by Mr. Steve 14 Marks at no cost to my client -- Mr. Bianciella said, 15 after being questioned by Chairman Mehta at that 16 time, that if the parking was eliminated, and parking 17 has been eliminated, as it is very clear that if you 18 are going to have two, three employees here, and the 19 parking lot is going to be used only for the 20 employees, there's going to be absolutely no traffic 21 coming out on to Kennedy Boulevard. Maybe when the 22 lady that cleans comes in at 6:00 o'clock in the 23 morning, I don't think she's going to be a hazard, 24 and when they close, you know, at, at 10, it's not 25 going to be a hazard to have two cars go on to 16 MONTHLY MEETING 1 Kennedy Boulevard. Mr. Bianciella said on page 120 2 out of 159 of the transcript, yes, and again, I'm 3 sorry if I am not clearly answering it, but my 4 objection would be eliminated because it's only -- 5 the Board's decision here only concerns the safety 6 and, really, the backing out of cars, so, yes, it 7 would eliminate the objections of my client here 8 before this Board. Again, I don't speak for the 9 people in the public. The people in the public don't 10 want backing out on to Kennedy Boulevard. That is a 11 moot point. 12 I would like to call the applicant as my 13 first witness. He was previously sworn in and he can 14 be sworn in again. His name is Mr. Rob Bodner. He's 15 the responsible member of Laundry Fresh of North 16 Bergen, which is -- which I have indicated before, 17 it's a limited liability company doing business and 18 qualified to do business in the State of New Jersey. 19 MR. GLATMAN: Sir, you will continue 20 under oath. You were placed under oath before and 21 you will continue under oath. 22 MR. BODNER: Yes, sir. 23 MR. IZQUIERDO: Mr. Bodner, you 24 previously testified at the January 19, 2005 hearing 25 that before you took on this enterprise and bought 17 MONTHLY MEETING 1 these premises you did research and your business 2 would be a significant walk-up business in the area? 3 MR. BODNER: Yes, I did. 4 MR. IZQUIERDO: You incorrectly told 5 this Board that your hours of operation were going to 6 be seven to 11. However, review of the North Bergen 7 Zoning Board of Adjustment approval, the memorialized 8 resolution indicates that you were placed on a 9 condition that your laundromat had to open no earlier 10 than 6:00 o'clock in the morning and you had to have 11 your last wash no later than 10:00 o'clock in the 12 evening. 13 Is that correct? 14 MR. BODNER: Yes, it is. 15 MR. IZQUIERDO: Will you state before 16 this Board right now that you will, you will change 17 your testimony and the hours of operation are going 18 to be identical to those approved by North Bergen, 19 being six -- no opening before 6:00 o'clock in the 20 morning, which means that your employees using the 21 parking lot are going to have to get there before 22 6:00 o'clock in the morning, and your last wash has 23 to be before 10:00 o'clock in the evening? 24 MR. BODNER: Yes, I do. 25 MR. IZQUIERDO: Okay. You do 18 MONTHLY MEETING 1 understand that the issue about the backing out on to 2 Kennedy Boulevard has been completely eliminated? 3 MR. BODNER: Yes, I do. 4 MR. IZQUIERDO: Okay. With the 5 modification of the application for the parking lot, 6 which is only going to be used by employees, with no 7 customers being able to use the parking facilities, 8 are you aware of that condition placed on you and 9 it's before review, and that is the case before 10 review right now at the Hudson County Planning 11 Board? 12 MR. BODNER: Yes. 13 MR. IZQUIERDO: But North Bergen 14 approved you with five parking spaces and yet the 15 Hudson County Planning Board, which has jurisdiction 16 up on Kennedy Boulevard, wants you to limit that on 17 two -- on four parking spaces only for employees? 18 MR. BODNER: I am aware of that. 19 MR. IZQUIERDO: So you know that if 20 the Town determines, and the Town probably will 21 determine that you have to go back before the Board, 22 you understand that you have to go back before the 23 Township of North Bergen Zoning Board? 24 MR. BODNER: Yes, I do. 25 MR. IZQUIERDO: At the last hearing 19 MONTHLY MEETING 1 you indicated that you were trying to acquire 2 additional lands to alleviate the parking condition. 3 Can you briefly explain to the Board the 4 status of those -- 5 MR. BODNER: Inquiries? 6 MR. IZQUIERDO: -- inquiries? 7 Thank you. 8 MR. BODNER: I've attempted to speak 9 with the adjacent property owners. There is no 10 properties for sale and I have been unsuccessful. 11 MR. IZQUIERDO: So even though you 12 have tried to alleviate the situation with the 13 parking, you understand that, the fact that you have 14 not been able to acquire additional lands, now you 15 have the restrictions placed on the parking lot, to 16 be used by only employees and only -- maximum of four 17 spaces? 18 MR. BODNER: Yes. 19 MR. IZQUIERDO: How many employees are 20 you going to have? 21 MR. BODNER: Approximately three. 22 MR. IZQUIERDO: Is that a maximum 23 number? Are there always going to be three 24 employees? Are there going to be times that you are 25 going to have one? Two? Are you ever going to have 20 MONTHLY MEETING 1 10 employees? 2 MR. BODNER: No. It's -- the facility 3 would not support that. Three would be a maximum. 4 MR. IZQUIERDO: Okay. And I just 5 wanted to double-verify with you, you've cited 6 industry statistics as to the Coin Laundry 7 Association that you indicated on the transcript that 8 serves more than 35,000 laundromat owners in the 9 United States and you indicated a percentage of 10 utilization as an average and you indicated that to 11 be from 20 to 25 percent. 12 Is that a correct number? 13 MR. BODNER: According to the CLA, 14 yes, it is. 15 MR. IZQUIERDO: I just wanted to make 16 some clarifications as to the times of operation. I 17 did not want the applicant to be in violation of the 18 zoning resolution. 19 I would like to call Mr. Joe Staigar, our 20 Traffic Engineer. 21 MR. GLATMAN: Mr. Staigar, you'll 22 continue under oath. 23 MR. STAIGAR: That is correct. I 24 understand that. 25 MR. IZQUIERDO: You were previously 21 MONTHLY MEETING 1 qualified as a Traffic Engineer? 2 MR. STAIGAR: Yes. 3 MR. IZQUIERDO: Are there any 4 situations that have developed from January 19, 2005, 5 that your registration or something has become 6 invalid or any of these situations? 7 MR. STAIGAR: No. I'm still a 8 Licensed Professional Engineer and Professional 9 Planner in the State of New Jersey. 10 MR. IZQUIERDO: Okay. You understand 11 that this application has now been modified so that 12 the parking lot is only going to be used by 13 employees; the parking layout and the traffic pattern 14 that you generated with the k-turn still holds true, 15 but it's only going to be for four parking spaces and 16 it's only going to be used by employees? 17 You understand that that is the focus of the 18 application this evening? 19 MR. STAIGAR: Yes, I do. 20 MR. IZQUIERDO: You also understand 21 that, and you testified before this Board that with 22 the k-turn there is going to be no backing out on to 23 Kennedy Boulevard? 24 MR. STAIGAR: That is correct. 25 I prepared a layout that shows the four 22 MONTHLY MEETING 1 parking spaces and the ability to k-turn inside the 2 site and not -- and obviate the need for backing out 3 on to Kennedy Boulevard. 4 MR. IZQUIERDO: When you originally 5 became retained by Laundry Fresh of North Bergen, LLC 6 there were three conditions that were set forth by 7 the Hudson County Planning Board as a condition to 8 deem our application complete. 9 What were they? 10 MR. STAIGAR: There was -- the parking 11 lot needed to be striped and that, that the driveway 12 apron must be narrowed. There was a very -- right 13 now it's fully -- a full wide opening. We'll narrow 14 that down to a minimum of 24 feet -- or a maximum of 15 24 feet, and that the turn-around would be for -- 16 would not be for customers. It would be for, it 17 would be for employees. 18 MR. IZQUIERDO: Before the Hudson 19 County Planning Board Site Plan Review Committee 20 placed a limitation on this parking lot to be used 21 only for employees, there were a number of situations 22 that you faced at your traffic study, and you were 23 candid enough to indicate that your numbers were not 24 always accurate because, I mean, population changes, 25 and it is clear on the transcript that you were 23 MONTHLY MEETING 1 candid before this Board, but at that time you 2 submitted to this Board that there could be valet 3 service and there was extensive discussion as to how 4 that valet service operated. 5 Is the valet service here an option before 6 this Board tonight? 7 MR. STAIGAR: No. Not any more, 8 because it will be for employees only. 9 MR. IZQUIERDO: In your testimony also 10 as a Traffic Expert you testified that the previous 11 use, being a meat storage and warehouse facility, was 12 an intense use and the laundromat use was a less 13 intense use because of truck traffic. 14 Does that testimony still hold true, even 15 though this parking lot is now being dedicated for 16 employees only? 17 MR. STAIGAR: Yes. This is a far less 18 intensive use than the former use. That former use 19 was a retail use, open to the public, and it 20 generated truck traffic. The laundromat will 21 generate minimal truck traffic, maybe the delivery of 22 some cleaning products in, in, actually, a step-van 23 type vehicle, and it certainly will not be bringing 24 all the products in and finished products out or sale 25 or retail like the previous use. 24 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. IZQUIERDO: So your testimony is 2 that the application, as has been modified by the 3 applicant, is a less intense use and will have less 4 of a negative impact on Kennedy Boulevard as the 5 Board has placed its conditions and as the applicant 6 has willingly accepted them? 7 MR. STAIGAR: That is correct, yes. 8 MR. IZQUIERDO: In your testimony also 9 in the transcript in the previous application of 10 January 19th, 2005 you described that the proposed 11 use was not as busy as the previous use when the kids 12 were in school. There was elaborate testimony 13 presented and there was a lot of discussion because 14 there's a school nearby. Now that this lot is only 15 going to be used by employees, how would it adversely 16 affect the kids leaving school? You gave testimony 17 as to the heights of operation. You indicated that 18 the laundromat was going to be more intensely used at 19 night when the kids are not in school. 20 How does your testimony change? Elaborate 21 for the Board how it affects the school. 22 MR. STAIGAR: Well, it would affect it 23 much less so. The employee traffic that would be 24 generated by this use and utilizing the parking lot 25 will be minimal. If we see traffic volumes of 10 25 MONTHLY MEETING 1 vehicles, vehicular movements per day, that is 2 probably going to be the limitations, and they will 3 not center around the hours of school opening or 4 school letting out. 5 MR. IZQUIERDO: If you can recollect, 6 now you're saying that we're going to have maybe, 7 tops, 10 vehicles coming in and out of this place per 8 day because we have four parking spaces, say four 9 come in, four come out, and somebody goes out to 10 lunch or goes out to get deliveries. 11 What was the previous number when this Board 12 was presented with the burden of considering 13 applicant's proposal to have this parking lot 14 accessible to customers? Do you recall that number? 15 MR. STAIGAR: Well, it was many -- 16 no. I don't recall the exact number and what the 17 actual trip generation would be across a day. I 18 didn't have that number, but it certainly would have 19 been many times more than what the current proposal 20 is before this Board. 21 MR. IZQUIERDO: But even though the 22 impact has been greatly reduced, Commissioner 23 Fitzgibbons suggested a stop sign, a speed bump, a 24 stop bar called the white line as well as a no left 25 turn sign on the premises. Applicant has already 26 MONTHLY MEETING 1 accepted that those four safety signals are going to 2 be placed as a condition of any decision this Board 3 wishes to take. 4 Even though, as a Traffic Expert, you might 5 consider them not to be necessary, what is the impact 6 of placing these conditions on the parking lot to be 7 used for four employees only? 8 MR. STAIGAR: Well, it's a further 9 enhancement of the safety improvements on this site. 10 Certainly, any time you present or put into the plan 11 an implementation that makes traffic flow safer, it 12 will be a benefit. Given the fact that we are 13 greatly reducing the intensity of traffic, plus these 14 implementations of safety, which I may add, as far as 15 I understand, the previous use did not have at all, 16 the former use, the meat plant, whatever it was, 17 retail, did not have any stop signs, stop bars, speed 18 bumps or left turn prohibition. They all made those 19 movements. They did not have those safety 20 enhancements on this site. This applicant will 21 vastly reduce traffic intensity and will implement 22 these traffic safety implementations and enhancements 23 to the site. 24 MR. IZQUIERDO: For the record, I 25 don't know, on a lighter note, he indicated it was a 27 MONTHLY MEETING 1 meat plant. There was no slaughtering of cows in the 2 premises. It was just a meat warehouse. Mr. Joe 3 Lorenzo just had a meat provision. 4 In the record you were also asked, because 5 the no left turn sign precludes the employees from 6 making a left and heading north on to Kennedy 7 Boulevard and on to Bergen County eventually, and you 8 indicated that crossing over a double solid yellow 9 line was allowed by Motor Vehicle Law, Title 39. 10 Is that true? 11 MR. STAIGAR: That is true, yes. You 12 can make a left-hand turn across a double yellow 13 solid line. Double yellow solid line indicates 14 opposing traffic, but also indicates no passing 15 zones, but it specifically allows left turn movements 16 across it, with caution. 17 MR. IZQUIERDO: Mr. Joe Staigar was 18 also qualified as a Professional Planner in the State 19 of New Jersey. I would like him to verify his 20 testimony as a Professional Planner. 21 You were previously qualified as a 22 Professional Planner and you understand you're still 23 under oath? 24 MR. STAIGAR: Yes. 25 MR. IZQUIERDO: Have any conditions 28 MONTHLY MEETING 1 changed in your license? Any unusual circumstances 2 or whatever that places your license in jeopardy? 3 MR. STAIGAR: No. Not at all. 4 MR. IZQUIERDO: Okay. Now, keeping in 5 mind that the application has been modified for the 6 parking lot to be used for employees only, with no 7 customers being able to use the parking facilities, 8 you indicated, and it's on the record, that this use 9 was compatible with the neighborhood. 10 Has that decision changed because the 11 applicant's modified the application? 12 MR. STAIGAR: No. Has not changed at 13 all, other than it may even be more applicable to the 14 neighborhood. The fact that this will be, 15 essentially, a walk-in neighborhood laundromat, will 16 serve primarily the immediate area that surrounds the 17 neighborhood, so it is a neighborhood laundromat. 18 It's not going to service people on the other side of 19 town or from other towns. People are not going to 20 use this laundromat as a destination. 21 MR. IZQUIERDO: It will probably, in 22 your opinion, be a smaller business than previously 23 anticipated? 24 MR. STAIGAR: Yes, because people who 25 would ordinarily rely upon getting to and from the 29 MONTHLY MEETING 1 site via a motor vehicle will choose no longer to do 2 that and probably go to another business, instead, 3 that has those facilities of parking, so this will 4 service the immediate area, primarily. 5 MR. IZQUIERDO: Municipal Land Use Law 6 places a burden on you, as a Planner in the State of 7 New Jersey, to do a Four-Step Balancing Test, it's 8 called a SICA Test, and it has the, the first 9 question: Identification of the public interest; 10 number two, adverse consequences that might be 11 created by the application; number three, imposition 12 of conditions to mitigate the adversity; number four, 13 to balance the public interest against any negative 14 impact that this application might have upon the 15 Zoning Plan and upon the State. 16 Can you identify the public interest that is 17 created by this application, keeping in mind that 18 the, that the application has been modified so that 19 the parking lot is going to be used by employees 20 only? 21 MR. STAIGAR: Yes. Again, public 22 interest in the sense that it will provide a need 23 particularly to the surrounding neighborhood and 24 serve as a purpose to those residents that live in 25 and around the area. 30 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. IZQUIERDO: So the adverse 2 consequences that might have been created when this 3 parking lot was going to be used for customers, and 4 there was extensive testimony and argument between 5 the Board, Commissioners and the applicant when it 6 was going to be used by customers, those adverse 7 consequences, have they been mitigated? 8 MR. STAIGAR: Yes. Absolutely so. 9 Any of the concerns I think that the Board 10 had or the public had in terms of people backing out 11 on to Kennedy Boulevard have totally been eliminated 12 by the imposition of or the agreement to a condition 13 of an approval for this parking lot to be utilized by 14 employees only. 15 MR. IZQUIERDO: And yet when 16 Commissioner Fitzgibbons was suggesting some 17 conditions to mitigate the adversities or the adverse 18 consequences according to the SICA Four-Step 19 Balancing Test -- what were those conditions? Is it 20 still that any decision that this Board takes is 21 going to be subject to an imposition that the parking 22 lot shall be used by employees only? What additional 23 conditions? Safety signs, if you may. 24 MR. STAIGAR: Right. The stop signs, 25 the speed bump, the stop bar and the striping plan 31 MONTHLY MEETING 1 will all be implemented on this property. Again, 2 something that this property never had before and 3 that the former use used the property without these 4 enhancements on the site, so not only will be the 5 imposition of conditions that will mitigate adversity 6 to this application, certainly will be a vast 7 improvement to what the former use of this property 8 was. 9 MR. IZQUIERDO: So in your opinion, as 10 a Professional Planner in the State of New Jersey, 11 does the negative criteria or negative consequences 12 of this application be mitigated -- be outweighed by 13 the positive criteria? 14 MR. STAIGAR: Yes. Yes. Absolutely 15 so. 16 I don't see any negative impact on this 17 property on the public health, welfare and safety. 18 In fact, this is primarily an existing building that 19 is being converted to a use that will be enjoyed by 20 the public, that serves a public need in the 21 immediate area and will operate safely and not have 22 any impact upon that neighborhood or the traffic 23 conditions or any other aspects of the neighborhood. 24 MR. IZQUIERDO: I know you had not 25 been retained at the time that this application went 32 MONTHLY MEETING 1 before the North Bergen Zoning Board of Adjustment. 2 The use or the operation of this facility is not 3 before consideration for this Board. What is before 4 consideration for this Board is safety on to Kennedy 5 Boulevard and site plan issues. Use is not an issue 6 before this Board. That was properly decided by the 7 Zoning Board. 8 In your opinion, as a Planner, and 9 knowledgeable of the Zoning Ordinance and the Master 10 Plan of the Township of North Bergen, as well as a 11 Professional Planner in the State of New Jersey, in 12 terms of the intent of the Master Plan of the County, 13 the safety on Kennedy Boulevard, give us your brief 14 opinion, and please elaborate on safety issues and 15 the intent of the Master Plan and the Zoning 16 Ordinance. 17 MR. STAIGAR: Well, I feel this, this 18 certainly falls into supporting the intent purposes 19 of the Master Plan for the Township and for the 20 County. This is a good use of the property. It 21 utilizes an existing building in an appropriate 22 manner, and as was all pointed out previously, the 23 main concern that I've heard in the previous hearing 24 was safety, traffic safety, the backing out on to 25 Kennedy Boulevard, the ability for the public to 33 MONTHLY MEETING 1 utilize this parking lot. Well, that all has been 2 eliminated from this site plan application to the 3 County. There will be not, not -- no more backing 4 out on to the property. There will be no public use 5 of the parking lot. It will be utilized by the 6 employees only. It will be striped. It will be 7 signed. It will be -- it will operate as a standard 8 and safe driveway and parking facility. 9 MR. IZQUIERDO: I have nothing 10 further. I just reserve my motion to close. 11 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Any questions, 12 Commissioners? 13 MR. BIANCIELLA: Good evening. My 14 name is Anthony Bianciella. 15 For the record, before I go on, I just want 16 to state that I was in North Bergen. Commissioner 17 Mehta, you may recall, Brian Chewcaskie wasn't at any 18 hearing. There was never a discussion with standing 19 in North Bergen, and I'm not really sure what 20 counsel's comments relate to, but I just want to make 21 sure that's on the record and it's clear. 22 I do have some questions for Mr. Staigar, who 23 just testified, and I'll also have a Traffic Engineer 24 come to testify before the Board. 25 Mr. Staigar -- 34 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. STAIGAR: Yes. 2 MR. IZQUIERDO: Excuse me. Mr. 3 Bianciella stated for the record, on page 120, that 4 he would remove his objections if the parking lot was 5 eliminated, and this parking lot is only going to be 6 used by employees. I object to Mr. Bianciella's -- 7 and I was told by Mr. Richard Anstasi, who was 8 counsel, that standing was an issue, and if this is 9 going on, there are a lot of cases I would like to 10 proffer to the Board and to get a transcript of the 11 record, because I was not present at the North Bergen 12 Zoning Board of Adjustment. Mr. Richard Anstasi told 13 me that it was an issue and that the North Bergen 14 Zoning Board of Adjustment held that they had no 15 standing. He cannot stand before this Board because 16 he has a -- that's the Superior Court of the State of 17 New Jersey, not the Hudson County Planning Board. We 18 have addressed every issue, and safety is not an 19 issue. The issue that he's here before is because he 20 represents a competitor. 21 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Sorry. You said 22 that already. 23 Okay. Go ahead and speak. 24 MR. BIANCIELLA: Okay. 25 MR. GLATMAN: I would just like to add 35 MONTHLY MEETING 1 one thing. 2 Before we finished last time it was suggested 3 to counsel to submit any documents we thought were 4 necessary. Clearly, among those would be a brief on 5 the situation. No briefs were submitted. I have 6 reviewed the cases that were cited, additional 7 cases. Basically, I think the applicant's attorney 8 is accurate in his recitation and there is 9 restrictions on the interested party and their rights 10 and their standards. Now, we already know an appeal 11 was filed on the local level, and I believe counsel 12 said that he would probably file one here, depending 13 upon what happened. I think it's a situation where 14 the Board may want to let him proffer whatever 15 information he has, let him build his record, but, 16 again, our issue is the safety and it is not the use 17 issue, it's just the safety issue that we deal with. 18 We'd like to continue, that's fine. 19 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Continue, please. 20 MR. BIANCIELLA: Thank you, Mr. 21 Chairman. 22 Let me just ask Mr. Staigar some questions. 23 Mr. Staigar, you were here in January and you 24 testified before this Board. 25 Do you recall? 36 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. STAIGAR: Yes, I do. 2 MR. BIANCIELLA: Part of your 3 testimony was that there would be a concern, even 4 though there was going to be an allotted six or seven 5 parking spaces with double parking in the area; is 6 that correct? 7 MR. STAIGAR: I absolutely did not say 8 that. No. I have no concern at all of 9 double-parking on Kennedy Boulevard. 10 I don't believe that Kennedy Boulevard, 11 Kennedy Boulevard has that type of characteristic, 12 that people would double-park on Kennedy Boulevard. 13 MR. BIANCIELLA: Were you given a copy 14 of the transcript of this hearing which took place in 15 January? 16 MR. STAIGAR: No. 17 MR. BIANCIELLA: Okay. Counsel didn't 18 provide you with a copy? 19 MR. STAIGAR: I said no. I don't have 20 a copy. 21 MR. BIANCIELLA: We have not seen any 22 kind of revised site plan, and there was just a 23 question, was a revised site plan presented to the 24 Board showing the new spaces, the outline for the 25 parking spaces? 37 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, the 2 applicant did provide -- it was not in the revised 3 site plan. It was documentation with the valet 4 parking scenario, which was forwarded to all the 5 commissioners at the previous -- the January meeting, 6 but in terms of a revised site plan, none was 7 submitted. 8 MR. BIANCIELLA: Okay. I just wanted 9 to be clear on that before I went further. 10 Not having seen the revised site plan, I know 11 what the old site plan looked like, and my question 12 is, do you know what kind of property is immediately 13 to the north of this proposed laundromat? 14 MR. STAIGAR: Immediately to the north 15 I believe is another building and some sort of 16 construction. 17 MR. BIANCIELLA: Okay. Do you know 18 what type of property is immediately to the south? 19 MR. STAIGAR: I think it's a 20 restaurant. 21 MR. BIANCIELLA: It's a Chinese 22 restaurant? 23 MR. STAIGAR: Correct. 24 MR. BIANCIELLA: Okay. Is there any 25 signage or any way that this laundromat is going to 38 MONTHLY MEETING 1 prevent any customers of the neighborhood or 2 neighboring Chinese restaurant from coming into their 3 parking lot? 4 MR. STAIGAR: No. Just like there's 5 no other signage in any parking lot throughout the 6 Kennedy Boulevard corridor that I've ever seen 7 disallowing someone to go into the parking lot and 8 either rightfully or wrongfully park in there. 9 MR. BIANCIELLA: I believe earlier Mr. 10 Bodner testified that there will be a maximum of 11 three employees that he will have at his laundromat 12 at any time. 13 Do you recall his testimony tonight? 14 MR. STAIGAR: Correct. I do. 15 MR. BIANCIELLA: Yet there's going to 16 be four parking spaces proposed for this site? 17 MR. STAIGAR: Correct. 18 MR. BIANCIELLA: Okay. What's to 19 prevent the customers from coming into this parking 20 lot and parking their cars? 21 MR. STAIGAR: Nothing. 22 MR. BIANCIELLA: Okay. I really don't 23 have any further questions of this witness. 24 I do want to call Brian Intindola. 25 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Okay. Counsel, 39 MONTHLY MEETING 1 can you swear him? 2 BRIAN INTINDOLA, P.E., having been first duly sworn 3 according to law, testified as follows: 4 MR. GLATMAN: Would you spell your 5 name for the court reporter? 6 MR. INTINDOLA: Yes. 7 For the record, Brian Intindola, 8 I-N-T-I-N-D-O-L-A, employed by Penoni Associates. 9 Penoni, P-E-N-O-N-I, Associates. 10 Thank you. 11 MR. BIANCIELLA: Mr. Intindola, can 12 you give the Board the benefit of your educational 13 background? 14 MR. INTINDOLA: Certainly. 15 Undergraduate degree and Bachelor of Science 16 in Civil Engineering from New Jersey Institute of 17 Technology. Went on to get my Masters at NJIT and 18 Licensed as a Professional Engineer and have been 19 working within the discipline of traffic engineering 20 for, I believe about 10 years now, and licensed for 21 approximately four or five. Been before, not this 22 body -- I was before this body years ago for an Exxon 23 in Weehawken, I believe, and I also have done work in 24 Jersey City, for the City, for traffic signal work 25 and have provided testimony in Jersey City with 40 MONTHLY MEETING 1 respect to applications, being recognized as a 2 Traffic Expert with impacts or associate impacts to 3 developments and also have been on the review side in 4 Hudson County and in Bergen County, as well as 5 Municipal Traffic Engineer to the Township of 6 Nutley. That's basically where most of my work is. 7 MR. BIANCIELLA: I'd like to offer Mr. 8 Intindola as an Expert in Traffic Engineering. 9 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Okay. 10 MR. BIANCIELLA: Mr. Intindola, have 11 you had an opportunity to review the documentation 12 which was submitted by Laundry Fresh to the Hudson 13 County Planning Board? 14 MR. INTINDOLA: I have, I'm sure, to 15 review the site plan that was, it was stamped by 16 Hudson County January 6, 2005, is what I have in 17 front of me, and also had the opportunity to just 18 cursory read through the transcript, and I was also 19 here for the previous hearing where I heard other 20 expert testimony. 21 MR. BIANCIELLA: And you've heard that 22 the plaintiff -- that the applicant has now amended 23 his application so that the parking will -- the 24 parking area will only be used for employees? 25 MR. INTINDOLA: Yes. 41 MONTHLY MEETING 1 Just to recap, my understanding of what's 2 proposed, now it will be employee only parking area 3 that is to the south of the building. It is going to 4 be four spaces provided with -- the driveway's going 5 to be narrow, to 24 foot, two-way driveway with a 6 flat sidewalk and then an apron. That's what I 7 recollect of what's before us now. 8 MR. BIANCIELLA: And Mr. Intindola, 9 can you tell me where the entrance to the laundromat 10 is? 11 MR. INTINDOLA: As far as I 12 understand, I'm looking at the site plan of January 13 6, 2005 as submitted to the Hudson County Planning 14 Board, it would be a line where it says, one story 15 building existing, and also by dimension line, that 16 says 20 foot, six inches. Basically where the 17 two-way arrows are. 18 MR. BIANCIELLA: For the benefit of 19 anybody that's not looking at the site plan, is that 20 on the -- in the front of the building on Kennedy 21 Boulevard? 22 MR. INTINDOLA: That is within the 23 parking corridor. 24 MR. BIANCIELLA: So the entrance to 25 the laundromat is actually in the parking lot? 42 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. INTINDOLA: That is correct. 2 MR. BIANCIELLA: Have you been to this 3 site on Kennedy Boulevard? 4 MR. INTINDOLA: Yes. I've had the 5 opportunity to observe this site prior to the 6 other -- the previous hearing in January, as well as 7 in the course of being in the neighborhood for other 8 projects as well as this project, was able to 9 observe, not to any in-depth extent with respect to 10 traffic counts, but just to observe normal daily 11 operations in front of the site. 12 MR. BIANCIELLA: In your professional 13 opinion, Mr. Intindola -- I have two questions. 14 The first is, when you have a facility, 15 specifically a laundromat, is there anything that's 16 going to prevent patrons from coming in and out of 17 this parking lot? 18 MR. INTINDOLA: As presented by the 19 applicant, no. 20 My experience is that you can -- when you 21 have restricted parking, you have the opportunity to 22 do Title 39, which brings the local authorities, 23 local policing authority to either tow vehicles out 24 that don't belong in the parking lot or you can 25 higher a towing service that would sweep, basically 43 MONTHLY MEETING 1 every half hour or so, your lot and to remove cars. 2 That wasn't offered by the applicant, but that's a 3 pretty common experience in areas where parking is a 4 demand. 5 I've had the occasion to be towed myself, 6 where I had not parked where I needed to be, and, and 7 if you have some sort of service like that -- the 8 only difficulty with this site is that to get on to 9 enforce the site, the car that's -- the tow operation 10 is a little bit awkward. If you had three stacked 11 cars as presented, you have to kind of like do that 12 child's game where you get the one tile over to do 13 your abc's, so you'd have to move cars around, jockey 14 them around to get to the offending car, so it's a 15 little impractical in this instant to have that 16 enforcement. 17 MR. BIANCIELLA: In those situations 18 it's the owner of the property that wants the 19 person's car who's illegally parked there to be 20 towed? 21 MR. INTINDOLA: I guess that would be 22 owner initiated or whatever management's on site. 23 MR. BIANCIELLA: Okay. You reviewed 24 the documentation we covered that was submitted to 25 the Planning Board. One of the documents was a 44 MONTHLY MEETING 1 diagram submitted by JSE, which is Joseph Staigar 2 Engineering, and this was the document which showed 3 the k-turn. You heard the testimony tonight that 4 employees would still be utilizing the k-turn to 5 maneuver their vehicles out of the -- can you tell 6 me, based on this diagram, where that k-turn would be 7 performed in proximity to the doorway where patrons 8 will be entering and exiting the laundromat? 9 MR. INTINDOLA: Based on figure one, 10 as presented by JSE, is a turning templet document. 11 It shows, to be fair to the applicant, a stack of 12 five cars in that aisle way. The applicant is now 13 proposing four spaces for that turning movement, so 14 it shows the k-turn being made by a smaller car, I 15 believe the testimony was. 16 As the applicant presented at the last 17 hearing, concern was raised about how you keep cars 18 from going very tightly against the building where 19 you have your main entrance, and it was suggested by 20 this Board that either a curb be provided to keep 21 that -- to keep the cars off from the, the front 22 glass doors, and that would effectively narrow the 23 maneuvering area. This exhibit does not reflect that 24 narrowed maneuvering area that was suggested by this 25 Board, and I don't think that was taken into 45 MONTHLY MEETING 1 consideration, but it shows the turning movement as 2 we're speaking about was, I think it indicates, I 3 read there a three point k-turn, with the larger car 4 needing a five point k-turn. 5 MR. BIANCIELLA: Two more questions. 6 If, in fact, the parking lot is not going to 7 be used by patrons, as suggested by the applicant, is 8 there anything that's going to prevent patrons of 9 this laundromat from double-parking near the site to 10 drop off their -- 11 MR. INTINDOLA: Well, I have to take 12 the opportunity to speak to the nature of the useful 13 inherence. 14 In the nature of the use, if you have bundles 15 of laundry to bring in, typically, you have to, you 16 want to do what's convenient. If you are going to 17 spend the time doing laundry, I would anticipate 18 that -- I don't have any scientific studies to 19 present this, but I know by lugging laundry up and 20 down -- in my house, usually you do -- one load is 21 maybe about 20 pounds, so who's ever going to come to 22 the laundromat dealing with a 20 pound load to bring 23 in to the site, you want to do that as convenient as 24 possible. I'll represent that because it's going to 25 be an employees only space, it's going to be that 46 MONTHLY MEETING 1 neighborhood driven people will walk to the site or 2 use nearby parking. I think if you speak to the 3 nature of the laundromat, you also have -- some 4 laundromats also provide shirt cleaning services, 5 which is limited to just shirt drop-off, and you also 6 have, also have laundromats that will provide you 7 drop-off and the wash and fold services, so you have 8 an intensity of uses not being represented. If you 9 think in terms of, you have one person, you know, a 10 person coming in and doing the laundry, but there's 11 also other services being provided, which is a 12 natural outgrowth of what's being provided, but 13 particular to the laundromat use, you do have bundles 14 to deal with, both in and out, similar to if you were 15 having a -- if you were at a grocery store with 16 similar type of heavy loads, and that's why I think 17 this kind of use promotes -- you're going to go where 18 it's most convenient to park, and I think that's 19 going to promote double-parking along Kennedy 20 Boulevard, if there's no loading spaces readily 21 available. 22 MR. BIANCIELLA: Last question. 23 You're familiar that the front of this 24 building has been expanded towards the curb? 25 MR. INTINDOLA: Yes. 47 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. BIANCIELLA: Okay. Can you tell 2 this Board how that affects the site distance as it 3 relates to the ordinances of the Hudson County 4 Planning Board? 5 MR. INTINDOLA: The frontward 6 expansion, seven, seven, seven foot, two inches on 7 the southern side, and I believe it's -- I can't make 8 out the dimension. It shows like a 13. A leg of 13 9 feet on the northerly side isn't encouraging. 10 MR. GLATMAN: The site triangle, the 11 applicant has presented that they will prevent or 12 prohibit left turns out of the site, which is really 13 the key to turning movement, that you have to have 14 proper site distances, but that is encouraging into 15 the site triangle. I think Hudson County recognizes 16 that, and the trick is, how do you enforce left 17 turns, a left turn prohibition out? Again, I think 18 you have to appeal to a Title 39 situation where it's 19 recognized by local authorities that that needs to be 20 enforced, and with the promise of this Title 39 for 21 both parking and for left turn prohibition, it puts a 22 burden on the local police force that otherwise 23 wasn't there and makes them almost like a partner in 24 the operation. 25 MR. BIANCIELLA: I have no further 48 MONTHLY MEETING 1 questions. 2 Thank you. 3 MR. IZQUIERDO: Wait until you finish 4 your case or cross-examine now? Whichever you want. 5 MR. BIANCIELLA: Whatever is 6 convenient to the Board. 7 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: I have a question. 8 One of the reasons this Board is hearing this 9 is for safety, backing out. Now, you're going to be 10 putting employees parking only. If you put a fence 11 or some kind of gate after the employee comes in -- 12 MR. IZQUIERDO: I was just going to 13 suggest that. 14 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: -- would that be a 15 problem? 16 MR. BIANCIELLA: That's fine, but, 17 again, number one, there's nobody policing that this 18 fence is ever going to be not opened to patrons. I 19 mean, you got to remember, in a retail establishment 20 you want to make it as accessible as possible to the 21 public, but -- in addition, what Mr. Intindola was 22 testifying, the nature of the laundromat business, 23 people are going to be pulling up their cars and 24 they're going to find a way to unload their laundry. 25 I mean, people come in with large bundles, and if the 49 MONTHLY MEETING 1 gate is closed, that may -- could cause people to 2 just pull up to, to the gate and park in the 3 driveway. 4 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: I understand 5 that. There's a lot of businesses on Kennedy 6 Boulevard and we can't help who double-parks. That's 7 why there's a police officer. 8 MR. BIANCIELLA: Of course, but at the 9 same time, we shouldn't invite the problem. 10 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I know 11 Kennedy Boulevard pretty well. I don't think you -- 12 really, people that double-park are going to get a 13 ticket. All right? The cops are going to make them 14 move. You just don't pull up and double-park on 15 Kennedy Boulevard. You just don't do that. I'm 16 telling you that right now. I know Kennedy 17 Boulevard. You just don't pull over and double-park 18 on Kennedy Boulevard. You don't do that. You're 19 congesting traffic. You make it back-up. I don't 20 think you could do that. 21 He could, he could actually have a gate where 22 he has an electric -- 23 MR. IZQUIERDO: Self-closing gate. 24 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: 25 Self-closing, to open it up to let the employees in 50 MONTHLY MEETING 1 and then it shuts it. 2 Is there any problem with that? 3 MR. BIANCIELLA: I would have no 4 problem with that. 5 As a matter of fact, Commissioner Liggio last 6 time testified that that was his concern, that people 7 would be double-parking and that area was already 8 plagued with a problem of double-parking. 9 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Yeah, I 10 understand that, but I frequently go to Kennedy 11 Boulevard, all right, and it's very hard for -- first 12 of all, you have, I guess North Bergen Police and the 13 Hudson County Police patrolling that constantly. 14 Nobody is just going to pull up and double-park on 15 Kennedy Boulevard. They're going to be -- it's very 16 tough to do that. 17 MR. IZQUIERDO: Yes. I would like to 18 cross-examine opposing counsel's witness. 19 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Woe. Woe. 20 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: He's not finished, 21 counsel. 22 Are you finished, counsel? 23 MR. BIANCIELLA: I'm sorry. Yes, I 24 am. 25 Thank you. 51 MONTHLY MEETING 1 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: Mr. Chairman, 2 are these the old renderings, correct? 3 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: We don't have 5 any new ones? 6 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: We have any new 7 ones, Steve? 8 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Mr. Chair, I 9 have a question. 10 I thought at the last meeting we came to a 11 conclusion whereby both parties were going to meet on 12 the outside and sit down and iron out a decision as 13 to what would be the best for people in North Bergen. 14 Was this ever done? 15 MR. BIANCIELLA: No. 16 MR. IZQUIERDO: I sent a letter on to 17 opposing counsel, and I will provide a copy of that 18 letter to this Board, asking for us to meet, and 19 there was no meeting. I will give that letter -- 20 MR. BIANCIELLA: I never received any 21 such letter. 22 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: Valet 23 parking, where would valet parking come in to a 24 laundromat like this? I never heard of valet 25 parking -- 52 MONTHLY MEETING 1 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: It's off 2 the board now. 3 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: It's out, all 4 right. That wasn't discussed either. 5 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: The concern here 6 for this Board is the safety, and if we can get a way 7 where the employees can park and the gate goes down 8 automatically, then I think the issue is closed. 9 MR. IZQUIERDO: On January 25th, 2005 10 I sent a letter to counsel, and it says: -- 11 MR. BIANCIELLA: I didn't -- 12 MR. IZQUIERDO: -- thank you for your 13 return of our documents inadvertently left behind at 14 the hearing. I would like to see if we can meet with 15 you to arrive at an amicable settlement. 16 MR. BIANCIELLA: I didn't -- 17 MR. IZQUIERDO: I am available at your 18 earliest convenience. 19 MR. GLATMAN: I'll mark that A-2 with 20 today's date. 21 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: The concern is 22 about safety. I'm familiar with that area of the 23 Boulevard, and I believe, I mean, there, there should 24 be no parking for no one. I mean, if we can't come 25 to some type of conclusion, and I mean safety hazard, 53 MONTHLY MEETING 1 then take the parking out and put a curb in. I mean, 2 then employees just have to, you know, find a parking 3 space somewhere, you know, somewhere in the area. I 4 mean, because, I mean, to, to meet this, to get some 5 peace in this, just eliminate, eliminate that, 6 because if you have parking available, it's not going 7 to stop people from pulling up, if they're dropping 8 off their laundry, and pulling, and pulling out or 9 backing out, and then you're going to have a major 10 traffic jam. I don't believe people are going to 11 just want to shopping cart their clothes or carry 12 their clothes there. They're going to be forceful, 13 and if nobody's enforcing it, if nobody's there to 14 enforce it, they're going to continue or they're 15 going to use it and they're going to go in there and 16 drop their clothes in the area. That Boulevard is a 17 heavy used area, and I believe that if, if you can't 18 come to any conclusion, just take out the parking 19 spaces and have the employees have somewhere else 20 they have to, they have to park that would eliminate 21 the temptation of people trying to pull up in the 22 parking -- a driveway or a parking space designated 23 for, for that company. I mean, you got a Chinese, 24 you got other areas, there's stuff there that people 25 just want to push it to the limit, and if there's no 54 MONTHLY MEETING 1 reason to enforce it -- 2 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I would 3 just like to say that, I'd like to say on the record 4 that I did suggest that at the last, the last meeting 5 we had here, same thing that Commissioner over here 6 said, okay, and I -- and the question was -- and it 7 was evaded by you, counsel, that if we did away with 8 the parking, would you be satisfied with that. 9 MR. BIANCIELLA: And my concern was 10 still the safety hazard. 11 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: No. Wait. 12 Wait. This is what we got into last time. 13 MR. BIANCIELLA: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: We're 15 eliminating the parking. The safety hazard here is 16 that -- 17 MR. BIANCIELLA: People will be 18 double-parking, Commissioner. 19 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Wait. 20 Wait. 21 Are there other businesses around that area? 22 MR. BIANCIELLA: Of course there are. 23 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Wait. 24 Are people double-parking in the other 25 businesses? 55 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. BIANCIELLA: According to 2 Commissioner Liggio, yes. 3 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Can I ask 4 you a question? 5 MR. BIANCIELLA: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: If we 7 eliminate the parking and there is no parking, we 8 eliminated the safety, as far as counsel's concerned. 9 MR. BIANCIELLA: Commissioner, again, 10 I know you didn't like my answer last time and we had 11 this -- it really doesn't, because, again, if people 12 double-park on Kennedy Boulevard, that, too, creates 13 the same hazard as people backing out. 14 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: If I can say this, 15 people are still double-parking even if you have that 16 parking lot. 17 MR. BIANCIELLA: Yes. That's true. 18 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Wouldn't you say? 19 MR. BIANCIELLA: Hopefully not. If 20 there was a parking lot that's suitable to the type 21 of business that's being conducted, then people 22 shouldn't be double-parking, if there's suitable and 23 sufficient parking. 24 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Couldn't a 25 space, parking space be eliminated and some type of 56 MONTHLY MEETING 1 turn where you come in, drop your laundry off and 2 keep going? 3 What the laundromat would probably have to do 4 is hire security or somebody to keep it moving. I 5 mean, just to eliminate it, don't even give them the 6 temptation, but have somebody out there where they 7 can come in, drop their laundry out and pull straight 8 out the same way. I mean, eliminate the parking 9 spaces, because if you leave them there, people are 10 going to -- what if an employee's car broke down and 11 they walked to work? Now they see two spots open. 12 You got four. You say there's only three. They're 13 going to have two spots open. Temptation is there. 14 Eliminate it. Come up with some other type of plan 15 where you could keep the flow of traffic going. 16 People are able to drop their stuff off, go around, 17 find parking, come back and do their laundry, and 18 when it comes time to pick it up, but have some type 19 of security out there to have traffic -- keep people 20 moving so they won't stay there too long. 21 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Commissioner 22 Jasek, do you have any comments on this? 23 COMMISSIONER JASEK: I was not present 24 at the last meeting, but I read the minutes of that 25 meeting. 57 MONTHLY MEETING 1 Many questions which I was going to ask were 2 already asked for today. 3 I had a question, how are you going to 4 control the public to park there, which is being 5 discussed right now? There is many ways to do it. I 6 would suggest a private towing service. If you have 7 a private parking lot, you pose the sign, you will be 8 towed, and any towing service will be glad to go by 9 every 20 minutes and tow the cars. That's one way 10 how to control it. Second way would be the gate, 11 which I am not too favored on because you have to 12 stop, the gate opens, you're in the driveway and 13 that's not a healthy situation. I don't like the 14 idea of eliminating parking for employees because the 15 parking spots are very scarce, so either get 16 employees on the, on the street and make sure that 17 nobody else will park there, and it means three 18 employees and one owner. Have four spots. 19 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: One of the issues 20 was that even if someone did pull in and didn't stay 21 and they had a medium car or a huge vehicle, they 22 could not k-turn there so they would have to back 23 out. That was one of my concerns. 24 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Yes. It's a very 25 good concern, very serious concern. We have that 58 MONTHLY MEETING 1 situation practically in every driveway on Kennedy 2 Boulevard, and there is practically no way to 3 eliminate that unless you have a police officer on 4 every block. People will still do it. Be it a gas 5 station, be it a private driveway, people pull in, 6 back up, make a turn, whatever. There is no way we 7 can prevent it. It's not really the task of this 8 Board to schedule police enforcement or, or advise 9 the police how to do it or anything of that kind. 10 Our business is the traffic on Kennedy Boulevard. We 11 have thousands of driveways on Kennedy Boulevard, and 12 this is one of them, so we have to treat it that 13 way. We shouldn't go to the extremes because then we 14 will have no businesses on Kennedy Boulevard, we will 15 have no Chinese, no laundromat, no corner store, no 16 gas stations. We have to look at it from that 17 aspect, too. 18 MR. IZQUIERDO: I would like to 19 clarify a couple of issues. 20 Opposition counsel, Mr. Bianciella's traffic 21 expert indicated that there was only one entry into 22 this facility and that was only from the parking 23 lot. I would like to state, for the record, and the 24 Board has copies of the architectural drawings, there 25 are two entrances to this building, one which is an 59 MONTHLY MEETING 1 ADA compliant entrance directly from Kennedy 2 Boulevard and the other one, which is a sliding glass 3 door, electric, that is recessed three feet away from 4 the face of the building into the parking lot, and 5 that's how the Township of North Bergen Board of 6 Adjustment approved this application. Such 7 opposition, counsel's expert testified that it was 8 going to be dangerous, that that 27 feet that we had 9 for the k-turn was suddenly reduced because the doors 10 of egress have to swing out. That is not the case. 11 For the record, I would like to submit an 12 additional copy of the drawings by the architect, 13 William Hoydeson (phonetic), R.A., Architect, A1105. 14 They are on the record. 15 MR. GLATMAN: They will be marked A-3 16 with today's date. 17 MR. IZQUIERDO: Additionally, 18 applicant thought, and I instructed applicant to 19 follow the directives of the Site Plan Review 20 Committee, that the parking lot shall be limited to 21 employees only. As such, because this parking lot -- 22 this facility is going to open from six to 10, you're 23 going to have very limited traffic. 24 County Engineer suggested a private towing 25 service. I would like to have a self-closing gate 60 MONTHLY MEETING 1 with keys only for the employees, and that gate, the 2 burden is on the applicant to keep those gates 3 closed. However, County Engineer also indicated we 4 have some land here, we can keep some cars on the 5 street for the employees, for delivery of suds or 6 something that comes into the premises. Absolutely 7 no for customers, only to be a self-closing gate with 8 a key that has to be locked when the employees come 9 in, and only the employees have access to the keys. 10 As the County Engineer properly indicated, 11 Kennedy Boulevard and Hudson County in the State of 12 New Jersey are a fast growing state. We need to keep 13 the vitality of our main arteries. Kennedy Boulevard 14 is the main artery of the County. I would like to 15 be -- for this Board to consider, actually, that just 16 placing the limitation on customers only is really 17 placing a burden on the applicant. There is not 18 going to be big traffic issues. The k-turn and the 19 customer entrance are not affected, so that testimony 20 is not valid, and I would like even opposition 21 counsel to take a look at the drawings and show it to 22 his expert to see if he wants to revise his 23 testimony. 24 Also, he testified that the site distance is 25 seven feet, two inches. Actually, Gardina Pharmacy 61 MONTHLY MEETING 1 and the Chinese restaurant next door are closer to 2 Kennedy Boulevard than we are. The attorney's office 3 that is going up next door, Alonso & Navarrete, are 4 actually closer. They're at zero feet on one side. 5 When he indicated seven feet, two inches away from 6 the property lands on Kennedy Boulevard, he indicated 7 the minimum distance. That building is set back 8 seven feet, two inches on the one side and on the 9 other one is 13 feet, six inches. This building is 10 farther away from the front property line than any of 11 the other adjacent buildings, so the availability for 12 three employees and an owner that are going to be 13 living within a 14 hour span, I don't think raises a 14 big safety issue, but -- 15 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Okay. Do we have 16 any public comments not dealing with the parking, 17 anything other than the parking on this matter? 18 MS. SANTANA: First of all, I'm sorry, 19 I don't speak English so well. If I could have a 20 translator, then you could understand me better. I 21 speak English, not very -- my name is Claudia 22 Santana. I live in North Bergen. 23 MR. GLATMAN: Would you please spell 24 your name and give the address where you live? 25 MS. SANTANA: Okay. My name is 62 MONTHLY MEETING 1 Claudia, C-L-A-U-D-I-A, Santana, and my address is 2 8810 Third Avenue, North Bergen. 3 Okay. My concern is -- 4 CLAUDIA SANTANA, residing at 8810 Third Avenue, North 5 Bergen, New Jersey, having been first duly sworn 6 according to law, testified as follows: 7 MS. SANTANA: I don't understand too 8 much about traffic, I'm not an expert, but I live in 9 North Bergen. I travel every day from 88 to 32, 10 because I'm going to the gym, I'm going to the salon 11 that is in front to the laundromat, I'm going to 12 Walgreen's, so that's my, my way to everywhere. 13 I hear somebody say that never is double-park 14 in Kennedy Boulevard. We have there the post office, 15 we have the fire station. I have to stop my car 16 three or more times during this week because it's 17 double-park. 18 I'm not against the laundromat. I'm not 19 against anybody. I just want to say, we don't need, 20 we don't need this kind of business there because 21 it's going to be more traffic, it's going to be a lot 22 of people trying to go in there, a lot of people, 23 because -- yeah, a lot of car traffic, I hear it all 24 the time. 25 The lawyer that was here, I see that he 63 MONTHLY MEETING 1 changed the, the way to, to keep this parking open. 2 I think it's too dangerous. He spend too much time 3 looking at that. 4 I just want to let you know my concern. 5 Please take your time to see if this is a safe 6 place. It's going to be a lot of traffic. I'm not 7 against the laundromat. I'm against any business 8 there. We don't need that. We don't need anything 9 there. It's enough with the post office, the fire. 10 Every business there, it's enough. 11 I have to walk sometimes, and I see today a 12 lot of kids around the place, because it's a Chinese 13 place there. So many people here, professionals, I 14 hear today say that is not going to be too much 15 traffic, that's not going to be dangerous. I was 16 there and it's very dangerous. I see a lot of kids 17 over there. A lot of people go there to pick up 18 food, or just walking, because everybody goes every 19 day from Fairview, from Englewood. That's the fast 20 way to go everywhere, to go to Union City, to go to 21 New York City, so it's not only for the people who 22 live in North Bergen, thousands of people living in 23 the Hudson area and that's the fast way to go 24 everywhere. We can go by Bergenline Avenue because 25 there aren't many places, many businesses. We don't 64 MONTHLY MEETING 1 have the same problem. It's like we live the same, 2 like we live around Bergenline Avenue. I try to, to 3 avoid that, that zone, and I not buy anything because 4 the fast way to go everywhere is by Kennedy 5 Boulevard. 6 I don't think it's going to be safe. Again, 7 it's not going to be safe. It's going to be traffic, 8 double-parking and all that. 9 I'm sorry I can't speak English well. I 10 understand a lot. I try to speak, but, anyway, I 11 want to tell you this because I see the danger here, 12 and, again, it's not against the laundromat, it's 13 against any business, that we don't need that there. 14 We don't need it. Please, please put more 15 attention -- I don't know what, what else to tell 16 you. 17 I think he says only nine people that live in 18 North Bergen. That is not true. A lot of people 19 here -- I live in North Bergen and I was here before 20 with a lot of people from North Bergen, so -- 21 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I'd like to 22 say something. 23 Miss, you did a good job, but our position is 24 that North Bergen approved to have a business there. 25 We're here to see that it's done properly for the 65 MONTHLY MEETING 1 sake of Hudson County, for the County. 2 You should have went to the Planning Board or 3 the Zoning Board. Most of you people should have 4 been there when this was brought up. 5 This was already approved by the Township of 6 North Bergen. We're here to protect Hudson County's 7 interests. It's already approved for a business. 8 All we're here for now is to try to resolve the -- a 9 way to proceed in making it safe for the residents of 10 Hudson County. 11 MR. CEPERO: I just want to state a 12 few things. 13 MR. GLATMAN: Can you give us your 14 name and address? 15 MR. CEPERO: Adrian, A-D-R-I-A-N, 16 Cepero, C-E-P-E-R-O. My address is 3519 Givernaud 17 Terrace. That's G-I-V-E-R-N-A-U-D, and that's in 18 North Bergen. 19 I understand what you were saying, Mr. 20 Fitzgibbons, I completely -- 21 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: Arthur. 22 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: You have to be 23 sworn in. 24 MR. GLATMAN: I believe you were sworn 25 in last time. 66 MONTHLY MEETING 1 MR. CEPERO: Yes. 2 MR. GLATMAN: You testified on behalf 3 of the group of people, so you will continue under 4 oath. 5 MR. CEPERO: I understand what you 6 were saying, Mr. Fitzgibbons. We should have been at 7 that Planning Board, but, unfortunately, we were not, 8 mostly because not all of us were aware of the issue, 9 not all of us had been privy to all the information 10 that was provided. Basically, I learned about this 11 by driving by. I saw the construction, I made 12 some -- I asked around, basically other people had 13 heard about this but nobody had really taken any 14 initiative. 15 Now, as far as I'm concerned, I don't see 16 anybody here for this construction from North Bergen, 17 so the fact that we're here, even though he stated 18 eight, only eight people were from 200 square feet, 19 which, to me, that doesn't seem relevant at all, 20 because, in reality, Kennedy Boulevard is Hudson 21 County's artery, as you said, sir. That's why we're 22 here today, and everybody uses Kennedy Boulevard, 23 everybody goes up and down it to get to wherever 24 they're going, just like Miss Santana said, and 25 that's why I believe that's irrelevant. I could be 67 MONTHLY MEETING 1 from anywhere in North Bergen, but I've used Kennedy 2 Boulevard more than once or twice in one day. I've 3 lived there all my life. I was born and raised in 4 North Bergen, so for me to sit here, and not within 5 the 200 feet, but not do anything about this, it's 6 against my responsibilities as a citizen of North 7 Bergen. Excuse me. So I'd just like you to take 8 that into consideration, that we do not agree that 9 this is safe. This is not against the laundromat. 10 Like she said, this is more of a safety issue because 11 of the traffic generated by this business. As was 12 stated, I believe in the last meeting, he stated he 13 had 33 washers and 34 dryers, I believe. 14 Is that correct? 15 MR. IZQUIERDO: Yes. 16 MR. CEPERO: To me, that's not a 17 neighborhood laundromat. That's a large facility, 33 18 washers and 34 -- I did some looking around and I 19 noticed that another laundromat down Kennedy 20 Boulevard to the south has about the same, roughly 21 the same amount of machines, and they have a large 22 parking lot with about -- that holds about 15 cars, 23 minimum, because there's another parking lot that 24 shares it. It's a Rainbow Laundromat. Now, I don't 25 understand how they assume that they're going to 68 MONTHLY MEETING 1 recover all their business with just walk-in 2 traffic. They're obviously going to have to rely 3 heavily on people coming in through vehicles. 4 Now, if you eliminate the parking lot, that's 5 one solution, but the larger problem arises with the 6 traffic generated with the people that pull over, 7 drop off their clothes and go on with their business, 8 which happens with any business. I understand what 9 you said, this is a problem with Kennedy Boulevard. 10 There's tons of places you can see this example, but 11 right here, the prime responsibility, just to make 12 sure that we can prevent that, we don't have to allow 13 it to continue any more. Yes, it was done in the 14 past, but we don't -- you don't have to allow that to 15 go on, and that's why I'm here. 16 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: But you understand 17 this Board has no power to allow them to open or not 18 open? 19 MR. CEPERO: That's fine. That's 20 fine. The ruling I want in general is that this is 21 not safe. 22 You know, even if you do close off the 23 parking lot, raise the curb like Mr. Dublin 24 suggested, which I think is a great suggestion, even 25 then you still have a lot of traffic generated 69 MONTHLY MEETING 1 because of the volume of the laundromat people going 2 in and out, and I feel that that safety issue is the 3 biggest concern and that's where you guys should rule 4 that that's not safe. Of course, I'm not saying it's 5 going to stop it from opening and closing. That's 6 going to be decided later on, in the future, but 7 that's what I'm hoping you will all come into 8 agreeance here -- agreement here. I'm sorry. 9 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: We cannot 10 force people that want to go into business -- I mean, 11 there was a business there before. It was a 12 commercial -- 13 MR. CEPERO: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: -- Thumann's 15 Hot Dogs or something. 16 MR. CEPERO: I believe, yeah, it was a 17 Thumann's distributor. I didn't know it was open to 18 the public. 19 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: And there 20 were trucks actually going in and out of there, hot 21 dogs there, but we cannot force a person who wants to 22 develop any kind of business in the Township where 23 they belong, we cannot override the Township. All we 24 can do -- 25 MR. CEPERO: I see. 70 MONTHLY MEETING 1 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: -- is help 2 prevent accidents and help with the safety of the 3 Hudson County residents. 4 MR. CEPERO: That's what I -- 5 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: This is 6 America. We can't force people not to go into 7 business. 8 North Bergen could have said we don't want 9 that there, you're going to put a park there. You 10 know, they could have said that, but they got the 11 approvals from North Bergen and we're just trying to 12 go about our business, to make sure that we get -- 13 the people of Hudson County are covered, and that's 14 what we're here for. 15 MR. CEPERO: I understand. I 16 understand. I just appreciate being heard. It's a 17 touchy subject, because that area is plagued by 18 double-parking. 19 Just to the north of the property there's a 20 taxi company that has a -- I think it's Metro Taxi, 21 and that has always been -- caused problems. There's 22 always been taxi cabs pulling in, out, pulling in, 23 double-parking on Kennedy, and that's only about, I 24 believe it's roughly two properties to the north. 25 It's on the same block, on the same side of the 71 MONTHLY MEETING 1 street. I don't see how this could really help. 2 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I think 3 maybe the residents, if they're really concerned 4 about, about the safety of the area, I think, you 5 know, they should go before the city fathers and say, 6 hey, this is what's going to happen, you know, but 7 North Bergen made that decision. We're here to make 8 sure that that road is safe for traffic and 9 pedestrians. 10 MR. CEPERO: That's all I wanted to 11 say. 12 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Thank you. 13 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Any more questions 14 from the Commissioners? 15 Jasek, anything? 16 COMMISSIONER JASEK: No. I have no 17 more questions, Mr. Chairman. 18 MR. GLATMAN: I believe counsel was 19 still making some remarks. 20 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Okay. 21 MR. GLATMAN: I think you had some 22 more cross-examination. 23 MR. IZQUIERDO: No. I have no 24 questions for any of our neighbors. 25 Just before this Board votes, I would like to 72 MONTHLY MEETING 1 restate the nature of the application. 2 I previously stated for the record that case 3 law disallows the opposition because their interest 4 is completely competitive. The application before 5 you concerns 6113 -- 6 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Counsel, are you 7 repeating anything you said before? 8 MR. IZQUIERDO: No. No. 9 The application before you is for 6113-6115 10 Kennedy Boulevard, known as Laundry Fresh, with a 11 parking lot for four employees only, with a striping 12 in the parking lot, with a narrowed driveway apron, 13 with turning around only for employees, with a stop 14 sign, with a speed bump, a stop bar. Additionally, 15 with a no left turn sign, and, additionally, with a 16 private towing service to be provided by the 17 applicant and self-closing gate with keys only for 18 the employees. 19 That is the application before you tonight. 20 Thank you. 21 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Thank you. 22 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Thank you. 23 On the motion, I'm going to move the motion, 24 with those -- that we actually know who the towing 25 company is that you're hiring. I don't know who 73 MONTHLY MEETING 1 you're going to hire, all right, and you give it to 2 our -- to the Hudson County representatives here, and 3 that for the place there -- Bob, is there any problem 4 with the gate? 5 COMMISSIONER JASEK: No. The gate 6 would be on their property, so I would like to see -- 7 MR. IZQUIERDO: It would be a sliding 8 gate. 9 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: You would 10 provide the towing agency that's going to provide the 11 service to your client. 12 MR. IZQUIERDO: Absolutely. No 13 objection to that, Commissioner. 14 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: This all 15 should be put in writing and given to our lawyer. 16 MR. IZQUIERDO: I will issue a revised 17 site plan with all these conditions set forth and I 18 will have the engineer and architect submit it to Mr. 19 Stephen Marks and Mr. Glatman. 20 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: Make a 21 motion. 22 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Do we have a 23 motion? 24 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: He made a 25 motion. 74 MONTHLY MEETING 1 COMMISSIONER FITZGIBBONS: I made a 2 motion. 3 CHAIRMAN HOLLOWAY: Second? 4 COMMISSIONER MEHTA: I will second the 5 motion to approve this application, because Kennedy 6 Boulevard, everybody knows it's a commercial as well 7 as residential area, and there are a lot of 8 businesses on there which does not have a parking, 9 and on this condition which the parking lot is 10 completely eliminated, all the background and within 11 10 blocks from this laundromat, proposed laundromat 12 there are at least three other laundromats working 13 which have a parking facility, so the public has a 14 choice, go to the laundromat which have a parking 15 facility or walk to the laundromat which does not 16 have a parking facility, so on that facility, 17 considering the previous business, like trucking and 18 all of the problems, this is good for the community 19 and I will support and I will say that, yes, to 20 approve this application. 21 MR. MARKS: Mr. Chairman, on a motion 22 made by Commissioner Fitzgibbons and seconded by 23 Commission Mehta, to approve SP-112-04: Commissioner 24 Avagliano? 25 COMMISSIONER AVAGLIANO: I'm not sure 75 MONTHLY MEETING 1 about the aye for the one simple reason that many in 2 this room are not happy with what's going on, and I 3 feel as though since our last meeting we have not 4 come to a conclusion as who's right and who's wrong. 5 I still see we have a major problem where we're 6 entering into the Boulevard and we're coming out of 7 the Boulevard, so for the safety, for all the people 8 in this room and the people in North Bergen using 9 this laundromat, I'm not happy with saying I'm going 10 to vote aye for this. I'm just going to abstain. I 11 am not going to vote on it. 12 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Bettinger? 13 COMMISSIONER BETTINGER: I'm very 14 uncomfortable voting on something like this, that I 15 visually did not see this evening. There were no 16 visual aides for us to actually -- we have old plans 17 here and I'm just not comfortable voting on this 18 myself, so I'm voting no. 19 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Dublin? 20 COMMISSIONER DUBLIN: Yeah, there's a 21 lot of uncertainties and you can see by the community 22 that's represented here tonight that they have some 23 uncertainties, and I believe that for any successful 24 business, the community has to participate, and 25 there's -- I mean, there's definitely no way of, you 76 MONTHLY MEETING 1 know, solving a lot of these issues overnight, take a 2 little more time, so I'm here to say I vote no. 3 MR. MARKS: Commissioner Jasek? 4 COMMISSIONER JASEK: Mr. Chairman, 5 what I hear today is not about, what I hear today 6 from the, from the public, it's not about a 7 laundromat, it's -- 8 PUBLIC MEMBER: Can't hear you. 9 COMMISSIONER JASEK: -- it's a 10 complaint about a lack of parking. It's a problem 11 common not only to North Bergen, but to Union City, 12 Hoboken, Jersey City or every other town, except 13 maybe Secaucus. That's not -- this Board cannot 14 resolve that problem. We all know that this problem 15 is there, but it does not or it should not preclude 16 this Board to approve the application like many other 17 applications of this kind which were approved by this 18 Board, so I don't see -- I do realize that we didn't 19 get the new site plan, but this Board acted in the 20 same way before on many applications and the Board 21 imposed the conditions and then the site plan was 22 ready, but later, and approved or commented on by the 23 County Engineer's Office and by the Planning 24 Department. Based on this Board I hear today, I vote 25 aye. 77 MONTHLY MEETING 1